College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

[alfablue]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Ok, update at 6:30 on Wednesday morning- important live report from Ann Arbor.

People still have opinions, but nothing has happened.

Seriously-do you think that someone is going to show up before anyone is awake and announce something??? Save my advertising money, and don't send the vans.

What's funny is that people who have repored the firing as true will not face any real critizsm, but the one who were calling it false, SO FAR, are being chided as "Fox reported it- why can't you?". So rumors and inuendos are more important that facts and truths.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Yeah, except for the part where Weis only won with Ty's recruits. Weis was a TERRIBLE coach and an even worse recruiter.

Weis was a very good recruiter—I think his worst class was ranked around 10th. I have no idea how you arrived at a contrary conclusion. Ty lucked into one good class before his laziness sunk him. As bad as 2007 was, it would have been even worse after that if he hadn't been shown the door when you consider the ongoing lack of recruiting. We don't call it Ty-bation for nothing.

Weis was a terrible developer of talent, but he did us a great service by falling on the 2007 grenade (that scared off Urban Meyer, at the very least) and giving the lie to the canard that ND couldn't recruit elite talent.

 

[bigmrg74]

I'm just waiting for the "I'm taking my talents to the League" tweet or facebook status update from them.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I love safeties.

Any true football fan loves a great defensive play, and safeties are among the most spectacular.

Since I had a dog in the fight, my view of last night's safety may have been flawed. But on the telecast, it sure looked like Herron made forward progress to the 1 yard line, and then was thrown back into the endzone. Nothing on the replays changed my mind.

I guess the ACC officiating crew loves safeties too. Gotta believe the play was at least worth a second look in the replay booth. But it was as if even the officials were carried away by the excitement of the moment.

If I'm missing something about the safety rule, I'm willing to learn. But over the years I've seen countless similar plays, and in virtually every case the forward progress was recognized.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Gotta believe the play was at least worth a second look in the replay booth.

I don't think it's reviewable. Forward progress is only reviewable "with respect to a first down", and even then, I believe the intent of the rule is determining the point to which the ball advanced, not second-guessing the decision of the officials on when to grant forward progress.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to that moment where it looked like he'd broken the tackle. I think the play probably should have been blown dead before then, but if it goes that far, that's the point where the officials negated his forward progress.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

After 9 straight losses to SEC schools, Ohio State finally learns the key to success vs. them.


Ineligible players.

Yah, the Buckeyes are fighting fire with fire now.

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I don't think it's reviewable. Forward progress is only reviewable "with respect to a first down", and even then, I believe the intent of the rule is determining the point to which the ball advanced, not second-guessing the decision of the officials on when to grant forward progress.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to that moment where it looked like he'd broken the tackle. I think the play probably should have been blown dead before then, but if it goes that far, that's the point where the officials negated his forward progress.

that's it? (I know TD progress is reviewable, though)- I would fully expect that safety situations are reviewable, too- especially forward progress. Two points is minor, sure, but they are points, so the situation should be reviewable.

(missed the play- as typical in the Alfa household, we were in bed at halftime.... and I don't care enough to lose sleep over the game)

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I don't buy it. He's too smart for that. This was CYA ruse.

A level-headed reply, and almost certainly correct. While I think there's the an excellent chance that all of the "Tattoo Five" will be back next year, this was first and foremost crisis management. Note that crisis management was being practiced by everyone concerned, not just the OSU people. The pact between Tressel and the players was only a part of the overall "deal."

For those complaining about the inclusion of the self-appointed memorabilia dealers in last night's festivities, this Buckeye fan will acknowledge there's merit to your position. As the cliche goes, justice delayed is justice denied. But the train on this issue left the station long ago. Remember when Roberto Alomar spit on the ump? Post season participation unaffected; suspension served harmlessly the following year. Cam Newton situation? The same decline in values rears its ugly head. Protect the big games at all costs; dole out any punishment later.

It's wrong, and I'm embarrassed that five Buckeyes got involved in such a situation. And yet, allowing them to play in the Sugar Bowl amounts to a plea bargain that fits the prevailing pattern. Under those circumstances, it is reasonable to accept the deal.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I don't think it's reviewable. Forward progress is only reviewable "with respect to a first down", and even then, I believe the intent of the rule is determining the point to which the ball advanced, not second-guessing the decision of the officials on when to grant forward progress.

Appreciate the feedback. It could very well be that safety calls aren't reviewable in the NCAA Rulebook. If someone knows the fine print in the FB rules, please chime in. This could explain the lack of a review, but...

Ultimately, I think it comes down to that moment where it looked like he'd broken the tackle. I think the play probably should have been blown dead before then, but if it goes that far, that's the point where the officials negated his forward progress.

I still say Herron made it to the one yard line, and that the "retreat" was entirely involuntary.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Appreciate the feedback. It could very well be that safety calls aren't reviewable in the NCAA Rulebook. If someone knows the fine print in the FB rules, please chime in. This could explain the lack of a review, but...

I still say Herron made it to the one yard line, and that the "retreat" was entirely involuntary.

I agree with you up to that point. However, once he was thrown back into the end zone, he was still fighting for yardage, very nearly broke the tackle, and managed at least 2-3 steps to his left. If he had broken free and made a 40 yard gain up the sideline, I could very well imagine the gnashing of teeth from Columbus when the ball was instead placed at the 1...

 

[blockski]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Ok, update at 6:30 on Wednesday morning- important live report from Ann Arbor.

People still have opinions, but nothing has happened.

Seriously-do you think that someone is going to show up before anyone is awake and announce something??? Save my advertising money, and don't send the vans.

What's funny is that people who have repored the firing as true will not face any real critizsm, but the one who were calling it false, SO FAR, are being chided as "Fox reported it- why can't you?". So rumors and inuendos are more important that facts and truths.

The most likely scenario to me is that RR has indeed been fired, and that the long meeting was simply a rather aggressive negotiation between the AD and RR about the terms of his departure.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Appreciate the feedback. It could very well be that safety calls aren't reviewable in the NCAA Rulebook. If someone knows the fine print in the FB rules, please chime in. This could explain the lack of a review, but...

I'm speaking based on the fine print. I'm a bit of a rules junkie (I'd say rules lawyer, but that's a term of art with some negative connotations that I don't think fit my proclivities). I generally keep a copy of the current NCAA rules (for both football and hockey) on my computer.

Safeties are only reviewable to the extent that they fall under the "ball breaking the plane" rule. The issue that I see in this case is that there's no reasonable debate about whether Herron made it out of the end zone at any point, nor about whether the ball was breaking the plane when he was tackled. The debate is exclusively about <em>how</em> forward progress was applied (vs <em>to which point he progressed</em>), and I think that is intended to be a judgment call outside the purview of instant replay.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

that's it? (I know TD progress is reviewable, though)- I would fully expect that safety situations are reviewable, too- especially forward progress. Two points is minor, sure, but they are points, so the situation should be reviewable.

Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that what is reviewable isn't a TD, actually, but "breaking the plane", which also covers safeties. No in the sense that the only aspect that's really reviewable is to what point the ball had advanced, while the application of forward progress is not—as I said, the only mention of forward progress as a reviewable is "with respect to a first down". (Note that this means a coach can only challenge a spot to argue that a first down was or was not attained... if the ball is spotted an inch short and you think it should have been two yards short, tough ****.)

See my reply to pgb as far as the line that I'm drawing with respect to forward progress and what aspects of it are and are not reviewable.

 

[J.D.]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Please, do not hire Les Miles. I'll take the unknown in Hoke over what I know about Miles...

 

[alfablue]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Well, yes and no. Yes in the sense that what is reviewable isn't a TD, actually, but "breaking the plane", which also covers safeties. No in the sense that the only aspect that's really reviewable is to what point the ball had advanced, while the application of forward progress is not—as I said, the only mention of forward progress as a reviewable is "with respect to a first down". (Note that this means a coach can only challenge a spot to argue that a first down was or was not attained... if the ball is spotted an inch short and you think it should have been two yards short, tough ****.)

See my reply to pgb as far as the line that I'm drawing with respect to forward progress and what aspects of it are and are not reviewable.

So whistle timing and whatnot is part of the ruling, too- much like the goalie....

 

[Priceless]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

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[Kepler]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Weis was a terrible developer of talent, but he did us a great service by falling on the 2007 grenade (that scared off Urban Meyer, at the very least) and giving the lie to the canard that ND couldn't recruit elite talent.

QFT. All things considered, I'm happy with Charlie as a transition figure at ND between the bad post-Holtz hangover and now. There was no way ND could have known that he was a buffoon and it turned out OK for all the reasons you said.

But this isn't a first head coaching job, and we shouldn't ever make that mistake again. In a lot of ways we got lucky, as it could have been Faust 2.0.

 

[Priceless]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

Stop me if you've heard this before: Rich Rodriguez and his staff have been fired.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I agree with you up to that point. However, once he was thrown back into the end zone, he was still fighting for yardage, very nearly broke the tackle, and managed at least 2-3 steps to his left.

Hence the judgement call aspect. Your read could very well be correct; I'll take another look at the tape sometime soon and focus on the last part of the play. A near escape didn't register with me during last night's viewing. Yes his feet were moving, but I saw that as a bit of self preservation rather than any attempt to gain yardage.

If he had broken free and made a 40 yard gain up the sideline, I could very well imagine the gnashing of teeth from Columbus when the ball was instead placed at the 1...

No question, we weep and gnash with the best of 'em.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: College Football IV: The Hand over Fist Cash Grab Time, or Bowl Season for short.

I'm speaking based on the fine print. I'm a bit of a rules junkie (I'd say rules lawyer, but that's a term of art with some negative connotations that I don't think fit my proclivities). I generally keep a copy of the current NCAA rules (for both football and hockey) on my computer.

Appreciate that. I consider myself a rules junkie for hockey as well. But I rely on others like you on the football side.

Safeties are only reviewable to the extent that they fall under the "ball breaking the plane" rule. The issue that I see in this case is that there's no reasonable debate about whether Herron made it out of the end zone at any point, nor about whether the ball was breaking the plane when he was tackled. The debate is exclusively about <em>how</em> forward progress was applied (vs <em>to which point he progressed</em>), and I think that is intended to be a judgment call outside the purview of instant replay.

Got it; thanks.