College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

[bronconick]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

This is my read, as well.

Of course, what fun is actually reading the statement?

The whole setup is a scam. He should have been ruled ineligible weeks ago when it came out that Cecil asked for money, not for 4 hours on Monday after the Iron Bowl after the NCAA told Auburn "We'll reinstate him before the SEC Title game."

The NCAA routinely takes months to rule on stuff like this, but apparently was able to rule on it conveniently quickly this time.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

This sounds like the 10-15 year plan. If the big east split happens, wouldn't it be likely to happen before that? I don't think they have time to build the program up to respectability in the MAC, they're too late to the party.

If there is a Big East split, it's far from guaranteed that they will expand to 12 right away and close the door on it forever. TCU may be a no-brainer pick of the non-AQ conferences, but there aren't too many who are right below them. Expanding right away just to reach some magic number doesn't make a whole lot of sense at the moment, unless the Big East can be absolutely sure there's enough value being added in those newly added teams* (and I question the market value of a Big East championship game, even if held at the higher seed, unless Notre Dame takes the 3%** chance I reckon they have of accepting an offer to leave behind independence and hop on the Big East train).

If UMass does manage to pull something together in a few years, UConn-style, then they might be a cromulent option for the Big East at that point (assuming the Seismic Shift to Sixteen hasn't already gutted the league like a trout, or the Pinch Me Please Pull of Notre Dame hasn't made expansion viable)

*Though the value of TCU football and keeping Villanova basketball justify their inclusions, IMO.
**Number produced through rectal extraction.

 

[Alton]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

The whole setup is a scam. He should have been ruled ineligible weeks ago when it came out that Cecil asked for money...

Asking for money is not an NCAA violation--Getting money, or being promised money, is.

The NCAA routinely takes months to rule on stuff like this, but apparently was able to rule on it conveniently quickly this time.

Read the NCAA release: there are 2 separate processes going on here. There's the "Cam Newton's current eligibility" process, where they have to reinstate him because they don't have anything on him right now, and there's the "Auburn investigation process," which is ongoing and will almost certainly end up becoming a Very Big Deal (and might cost Newton his eligibility once they get all of the details).

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

So is this the new way to keep TCU out of the National Championship game? Let Auburn play in the game, then if they win, they just vacate any wins that Newton played in, making the Ducks national champions and guaranteeing that TCU doesn't get a chance to wreck their BCS party? They couldn't do anything now, that would mean TCU got their shot...

 

[bronconick]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

Asking for money is not an NCAA violation--Getting money, or being promised money, is.



Read the NCAA release: there are 2 separate processes going on here. There's the "Cam Newton's current eligibility" process, where they have to reinstate him because they don't have anything on him right now, and there's the "Auburn investigation process," which is ongoing and will almost certainly end up becoming a Very Big Deal (and might cost Newton his eligibility once they get all of the details).

So, what I'm getting is that there's basically two ways to do this once there are allegations. Auburn with Newton, and apparently Alabama during the textbook scandal a few years back shoved through a quick "ruling" by a different arm of the NCAA to make it look legit for the moment in the public eye, but they run the risk of games being forfeited/vacated down the road and probably heavier sanctions if things come out afterwards, like in Alabama's case.

North Carolina got word of a bunch of violations in September and suspended the players, and expelled a couple, and possibly lost a game somewhere in there because of it (LSU) in hopes of not having to forfeit and getting some leniency.

 

[Kepler]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

So is this the new way to keep TCU out of the National Championship game? Let Auburn play in the game, then if they win, they just vacate any wins that Newton played in, making the Ducks national champions

IINM a vacated title does not pass to the losing team, it's just vacated.

Bronco, I don't know if it's formally declared anywhere but schools often come forward after allegations with the expectation that the NC$$ will go easier on them if they are at least perceived to be cooperating.

Are we sure "asking for money is not an NCAA violation"? I would certainly think it would be, albeit it would be nearly impossible to prove.

 

[bronconick]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

So is this the new way to keep TCU out of the National Championship game? Let Auburn play in the game, then if they win, they just vacate any wins that Newton played in, making the Ducks national champions and guaranteeing that TCU doesn't get a chance to wreck their BCS party? They couldn't do anything now, that would mean TCU got their shot...

The title would be empty, then. Auburn, ironically enough, doesn't get to take their 2004 13-0 record and claim the BCS title in place of USC's vacated title.

I think this *is* being run in an effort to deny TCU a shot at the national title game, but it's being run by people at Auburn that know they're probably screwed regardless and may as well get the trip to Arizona and sell the merchandise, not the NCAA.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

I don't think I buy the TCU angle. Say it's an undefeated OSU at #3. You really think the NCAA is handling this differently?

 

[bronconick]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

I don't think I buy the TCU angle. Say it's an undefeated OSU at #3. You really think the NCAA is handling this differently?

No. There's no NCAA conspiracy or angle. I think Auburn's going to end up on probation, vacating most, if not all of their wins this year. I think the people at Auburn know this, but would rather have the memories of winning the national title, the three years of selling national title merchandise, having the crystal ball for three years before getting hammered well after the fact like USC did. They'd be doing this regardless of who #3 is. They're probably doubly irritated by the fact that a cheating USC kept them out in 2004 and figure it's their turn.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

I don't think I buy the TCU angle. Say it's an undefeated OSU at #3. You really think the NCAA is handling this differently?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

Asking for money is not an NCAA violation--Getting money, or being promised money, is.



Read the NCAA release: there are 2 separate processes going on here. There's the "Cam Newton's current eligibility" process, where they have to reinstate him because they don't have anything on him right now, and there's the "Auburn investigation process," which is ongoing and will almost certainly end up becoming a Very Big Deal (and might cost Newton his eligibility once they get all of the details).

Actually asking for money immediately ends NCAA eligibility. The question is whether Cam knew about what his father was doing or not. If Cam was doing the asking or was it Cecil all by himself...

The NCAA is actually saying that they're clearing him for now...so they don't have to worry about TCU getting to play for a national title.

And so, the last vestiges of relevance the NCAA has a moral arbiter are swept away forever.

 

[Kepler]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

And so, the last vestiges of relevance the NCAA has a moral arbiter are swept away forever.

That train left the station around 1970.

 

[French Rage]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

Why does it matter if he knew?

12.3.1.2 Benefits from Prospective Agents. An individual shall be ineligible per Bylaw 12.3.1 if he or she (or his or her relatives or friends) accepts transportation or other benefits from: (Revised: 1/14/97)
(a) Any person who represents any individual in the marketing of his or her athletics ability. The receipt of such expenses constitutes compensation based on athletics skill and is an extra benefit not available to the student body in general; or
(b) An agent, even if the agent has indicated that he or she has no interest in representing the student-athlete in the marketing of his or her athletics ability or reputation and does not represent individuals in the student-athlete's sport. (Adopted: 1/14/97)

And let's not pretend the investigation isn't over for all intents and purposes. Does anyone really pay attention to something being vacated? Vacating titles or wins is the most halfassed punishment.

 

[Alton]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

Actually asking for money immediately ends NCAA eligibility.

That's not my understanding, and I am having a hard time finding a reference for that. Can you help with an NCAA manual reference?
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

Article 12, the amateurism bylaw, outlaws "the receipt of funds..." but not the solicitation of them, as far as I can tell.

EDIT: French Rage, the bylaw in question is 12.3.3, regarding Athletics Scholarship Agents, and the only question is whether the younger Newton knew that the older Newton had hired said Athletics Scholarship Agent.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

New thread title:

College Football IV: We may cheat, but at least we keep the BCS

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

That's not my understanding, and I am having a hard time finding a reference for that. Can you help with an NCAA manual reference?
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

Article 12, the amateurism bylaw, outlaws "the receipt of funds..." but not the solicitation of them, as far as I can tell.

EDIT: French Rage, the bylaw in question is 12.3.3, regarding Athletics Scholarship Agents, and the only question is whether the younger Newton knew that the older Newton had hired said Athletics Scholarship Agent.

I thought I remember ESPN saying that Cecil asking for money on behalf of Cam would have made him ineligible...I may be remembering wrong though.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

Why does it matter if he knew?



And let's not pretend the investigation isn't over for all intents and purposes. Does anyone really pay attention to something being vacated? Vacating titles or wins is the most halfassed punishment.

The excerpt you quote requires the acceptance of benefits. So far, the only thing that's been admitted is solicitation of benefits.

 

[Patman]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

So, parents can shop their children to universities with impugnity as long as the player doesn't know (as if anyone thinks Cam Newton didn't know)? This isn't over, clearly, but if the NCAA really goes this route, it will change college athletics forever.

I would figure shop but cannot transact... this means that any evidence of shopping is not going to be treated as defacto evidence that a purchase occurred.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

You know, if the NCAA really wanted to put the screws to the BCS, since its not really their thing that they sanction, they would go out and let Auburn win the SEC title, then that monday declare that Cam was ineligable and thus, Auburn has to forfeit all of their games this year, along with sitting home from the bowl game. Wouldn't that just be the ultimate cockblock of all time???

 

[Kepler]

Re: College Football III: We may lose, but we keep the score close!

You know, if the NCAA really wanted to put the screws to the BCS, since its not really their thing that they sanction

The BCS is a mechanism for ensuring the cartel of BCS conferences dominates college football free from the threat of non-BCS conference teams. The NCAA is a mechanism for ensuring that the cartel of factory schools dominates college athletics free from the threat of academic integrity. They are partners in crime, not competitors. Auburn --> SEC --> BCS --> NCAA is just the same business plan writ progressively larger, with ESPN as their PR firm.