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Colgate 2010-11
- Thread starter sshablak
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'Gate Radio
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2010-11
It's not necessarily the fault of any one person or any group of players. Defense is a team concept and you can have the best defense in the world but if your forwards aren't being responsible with back-checking and getting too deep in the offensize zone, it doesn't matter. On the other side of the coin, you can be extremely skilled offensively and have a defense that's not making plays. It goes both ways.
From what I've seen, everyone needs to be more responsible defensively. If you look at the hard numbers, Colgate has not played a game since Sacred Heart where it has allowed fewer than three goals. Take out the Quinnipiac game and you can increase that number to four.
It's not necessarily the fault of any one person or any group of players. Defense is a team concept and you can have the best defense in the world but if your forwards aren't being responsible with back-checking and getting too deep in the offensize zone, it doesn't matter. On the other side of the coin, you can be extremely skilled offensively and have a defense that's not making plays. It goes both ways.
From what I've seen, everyone needs to be more responsible defensively. If you look at the hard numbers, Colgate has not played a game since Sacred Heart where it has allowed fewer than three goals. Take out the Quinnipiac game and you can increase that number to four.
TheValleyRaider
Let's Go 'Gate!
Re: Colgate 2010-11
Radio gets it right regarding the team defense concept. The biggest problem seemed to be the lack of puck possession, especially in the offensive zone. Forwards chipped in deep, but the Cornell defenders retrieved the puck and turned the other way with our forwards deep. Occasionally it was an issue of pinching defensemen, but in general it's a team effort
The defense made plenty of nice plays retrieving rebounds and clearing them out of harm's way, and stopping plays where they were in position, but you need to see that effort more consistently from all players. Too many odd-man rushes for Cornell
Oddly, we had the same advantages offensively, scoring twice on odd-man rushes. Not sure I remember seeing a Cornell team give up those kinds of opportunities like that. Not to us, at least....
Radio gets it right regarding the team defense concept. The biggest problem seemed to be the lack of puck possession, especially in the offensive zone. Forwards chipped in deep, but the Cornell defenders retrieved the puck and turned the other way with our forwards deep. Occasionally it was an issue of pinching defensemen, but in general it's a team effort
The defense made plenty of nice plays retrieving rebounds and clearing them out of harm's way, and stopping plays where they were in position, but you need to see that effort more consistently from all players. Too many odd-man rushes for Cornell
Oddly, we had the same advantages offensively, scoring twice on odd-man rushes. Not sure I remember seeing a Cornell team give up those kinds of opportunities like that. Not to us, at least....
In other words the system of play isn't working? The power play system isn't working? The penalty kill isn't working?
TheValleyRaider
Let's Go 'Gate!
Re: Colgate 2010-11
Well, the statistics certainly bear that out this year, I would say
I hesitate to draw too many conclusions from what I saw on Saturday, as it's only the second time this year I've actually been able to watch the team play (Brown was the other). One game does not necessarily make a trend, though I saw some of the things that others have been talking about this year
If I must choose though, I think it's the execution of the system of play. Vaughan has more than enough of a record for us to judge him as a decent coach, and some past success to point to. How different is the scheme this season? I can't say, but unless it's a big difference, I think you have to point to the players consistently executing, or consistently doing anything....
Well, the statistics certainly bear that out this year, I would say
I hesitate to draw too many conclusions from what I saw on Saturday, as it's only the second time this year I've actually been able to watch the team play (Brown was the other). One game does not necessarily make a trend, though I saw some of the things that others have been talking about this year
If I must choose though, I think it's the execution of the system of play. Vaughan has more than enough of a record for us to judge him as a decent coach, and some past success to point to. How different is the scheme this season? I can't say, but unless it's a big difference, I think you have to point to the players consistently executing, or consistently doing anything....
[/QUOTE] I must choose though, I think it's the execution of the system of play. Vaughan has more than enough of a record for us to judge him as a decent coach, and some past success to point to. How different is the scheme this season? I can't say, but unless it's a big difference, I think you have to point to the players consistently executing, or consistently doing anything....[/QUOTE]
OK. If the players can't execute then who is responsible to hold them accountable, change the lines/lineup or change the system to something they can execute? Who recruited the players that can't execute? Fact is that other than a few years where Gate rose to the top (briefly) this coaching staff hasn't done anything that shows they can recruit, develop and win consistently. Vaughan has always relied on two or three players to get him over the top, like Winchester/Burton and never focused on depth. Now he has a team with depth (7 NHL Draftees) and no superstars. He doesn't know how to coach it. He hasn't adapted and he keeps burning out the top guys hoping one of them will turn in to Winchester, Burton or Mac.
This is the least physical team I have ever seen at Gate. I have to believe we will see player loss at the end of this year. The NHL teams that drafted our guys have to be concerned about their development and they will start talking to their agents about getting them away from Gate. At this point of the season with this record the blame starts shifting from players not executing to coaches not coaching.
OK. If the players can't execute then who is responsible to hold them accountable, change the lines/lineup or change the system to something they can execute? Who recruited the players that can't execute? Fact is that other than a few years where Gate rose to the top (briefly) this coaching staff hasn't done anything that shows they can recruit, develop and win consistently. Vaughan has always relied on two or three players to get him over the top, like Winchester/Burton and never focused on depth. Now he has a team with depth (7 NHL Draftees) and no superstars. He doesn't know how to coach it. He hasn't adapted and he keeps burning out the top guys hoping one of them will turn in to Winchester, Burton or Mac.
This is the least physical team I have ever seen at Gate. I have to believe we will see player loss at the end of this year. The NHL teams that drafted our guys have to be concerned about their development and they will start talking to their agents about getting them away from Gate. At this point of the season with this record the blame starts shifting from players not executing to coaches not coaching.
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Re: Colgate 2010-11
I don't think it's Don's fault, if anything I think he has overachieved more than underachieved. Five or six years ago we started granting "Four" scholarships a year, so we have sixteen scholarship players on the team. So ideally I guess you get two forwards and two defenseman, or one and a goalie every year, however he deems appropriate.
In a perfect world maybe that happens but usually we get mostly forwards or mostly defensemen. Two years ago we lost something like five dmen so last year's frosh were mostly defensemen. Last year we played five frosh on the blueline and somehow we eeked out fourth place. This year the normal thought process is that they have a year of experience and since we finished fourth last year we will be even better this year(myself included). Well for some reason it's not happening, maybe sopohmore slumps as they say. I think the loss of our senior leaders last year is becoming a huge factor, as mentioned previously here many times. We don't seem to be able to put a full sixty minutes together yet, losing leads in the third period of several games. I guess this is where the leaders are needed, someone needs to step up, I still think it will happen.
We can't fingerpoint at each other, we've been so close in several games.
I don't think it's Don's fault, if anything I think he has overachieved more than underachieved. Five or six years ago we started granting "Four" scholarships a year, so we have sixteen scholarship players on the team. So ideally I guess you get two forwards and two defenseman, or one and a goalie every year, however he deems appropriate.
In a perfect world maybe that happens but usually we get mostly forwards or mostly defensemen. Two years ago we lost something like five dmen so last year's frosh were mostly defensemen. Last year we played five frosh on the blueline and somehow we eeked out fourth place. This year the normal thought process is that they have a year of experience and since we finished fourth last year we will be even better this year(myself included). Well for some reason it's not happening, maybe sopohmore slumps as they say. I think the loss of our senior leaders last year is becoming a huge factor, as mentioned previously here many times. We don't seem to be able to put a full sixty minutes together yet, losing leads in the third period of several games. I guess this is where the leaders are needed, someone needs to step up, I still think it will happen.
We can't fingerpoint at each other, we've been so close in several games.
'Gate Radio
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2010-11
Special teams is a bit of a red herring though there have been circumstances this year where it has been the difference in the game. However, you just have to look back to last season. Heading into early December, the power play wasn't much better than it is now - 11x70, 15.7% and the penalty kill was somewhat better but not great - 57x71, 80.3%. Last year's record at this time was 6-4-4 and 4-2-1 in the league.
So while special teams is some of the reason for the way things have gone this season, it's not the complete answer.
Really, as I've said, it's been almost something different every night. You can't put your finger on one thing and say, fix that and you'll win. What it really comes down to is the players on the ice executing, making good decisions and playing a full 60 minutes. Given the small roster size, guys aren't going to be taken out of the line-up if they're not performing. There are basically four skaters scratched per game - one defenseman and three forwards. And the scratches have been consistent for the most part though it'll be interesting to see who sits when Jack McNamara returns (if he can make the line-up which given the success of Kevin, I'd assume he will).
And Hockey Eh, did Don pee in your Corn Flakes or something? Jeez.
The team has four games coming up where it has shown in the past that it can beat those type of teams - Army, Niagara, Robert Morris. Say they put together a 3-1 mark over those four games heading into Boston College and a lot of this nonsense will be forgotten. Make no mistake, I'm not saying these four games are a cake walk, but with the talent that is on the ice and what we know they are capable of, a concerted 60-minute effort against these teams should result in wins.
Also, I think the thing that frustrates most people is that you could see the effort and good play in the Yale game and kind of mark that down and think, alright, this is where things kind of pick back up. And obviously that hasn't happened with two blown leads against teams Colgate should have beaten. And it seems like everything that was done right against Yale (aside from those two bad stretches) and even in the second against Cornell, has been undone by two third period meltdowns and that now we're back to square one.
Special teams is a bit of a red herring though there have been circumstances this year where it has been the difference in the game. However, you just have to look back to last season. Heading into early December, the power play wasn't much better than it is now - 11x70, 15.7% and the penalty kill was somewhat better but not great - 57x71, 80.3%. Last year's record at this time was 6-4-4 and 4-2-1 in the league.
So while special teams is some of the reason for the way things have gone this season, it's not the complete answer.
Really, as I've said, it's been almost something different every night. You can't put your finger on one thing and say, fix that and you'll win. What it really comes down to is the players on the ice executing, making good decisions and playing a full 60 minutes. Given the small roster size, guys aren't going to be taken out of the line-up if they're not performing. There are basically four skaters scratched per game - one defenseman and three forwards. And the scratches have been consistent for the most part though it'll be interesting to see who sits when Jack McNamara returns (if he can make the line-up which given the success of Kevin, I'd assume he will).
And Hockey Eh, did Don pee in your Corn Flakes or something? Jeez.
The team has four games coming up where it has shown in the past that it can beat those type of teams - Army, Niagara, Robert Morris. Say they put together a 3-1 mark over those four games heading into Boston College and a lot of this nonsense will be forgotten. Make no mistake, I'm not saying these four games are a cake walk, but with the talent that is on the ice and what we know they are capable of, a concerted 60-minute effort against these teams should result in wins.
Also, I think the thing that frustrates most people is that you could see the effort and good play in the Yale game and kind of mark that down and think, alright, this is where things kind of pick back up. And obviously that hasn't happened with two blown leads against teams Colgate should have beaten. And it seems like everything that was done right against Yale (aside from those two bad stretches) and even in the second against Cornell, has been undone by two third period meltdowns and that now we're back to square one.
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Re: Colgate 2010-11
No Gate Radio, Don didn't pee in my Corn Flakes- I am an eggs, bacon & hash browns guy. I am, however, sick of you and others on this chat constantly making sure you don't hold the coaching staff accountable for anything wrong. I am sick of everyone accepting below average results year in and year out and then celebrating the occasional appearance in the final 4 for ECAC or even the regular season top 4 ECAC finish. WOW. I don't care how many scholarships are given, how bad the rink is or whatever other excuse we can brew up on this page, I want Gate to win and I want to see them in the national tournament not ECAC. If our coaches can't achieve that then they aren't good enough for me. Last year's fizzle, being swept with home ice advantage, started me thinking that I wasn't satisfied (and wasn't that a third period melt down too); I was sick of waiting for results. Unfortunately I can't change to rooting for another college, I guess I should have gone to Yale where they made a change and are turning things around (despite the challange of finding academically stong players and no scholarships) or BC where they expect to win year in and year out. I think you need to increase your expectations and stop making excuses for anyone and everyone involved.
No Gate Radio, Don didn't pee in my Corn Flakes- I am an eggs, bacon & hash browns guy. I am, however, sick of you and others on this chat constantly making sure you don't hold the coaching staff accountable for anything wrong. I am sick of everyone accepting below average results year in and year out and then celebrating the occasional appearance in the final 4 for ECAC or even the regular season top 4 ECAC finish. WOW. I don't care how many scholarships are given, how bad the rink is or whatever other excuse we can brew up on this page, I want Gate to win and I want to see them in the national tournament not ECAC. If our coaches can't achieve that then they aren't good enough for me. Last year's fizzle, being swept with home ice advantage, started me thinking that I wasn't satisfied (and wasn't that a third period melt down too); I was sick of waiting for results. Unfortunately I can't change to rooting for another college, I guess I should have gone to Yale where they made a change and are turning things around (despite the challange of finding academically stong players and no scholarships) or BC where they expect to win year in and year out. I think you need to increase your expectations and stop making excuses for anyone and everyone involved.
Re: Colgate 2010-11
No actually here are the things I would suggest Don et al take under consideration. Quicker shots on PP. Get the team more physical even if it means putting all your physical players on one line to set the tone. Quicker shots on PP. Run four lines (use the depth) and force other teams to match up to you. Our scoring has been spread around so any line can score given the right match up. Quicker shots on PP. Drop the perimeter movement PP that never shoots and focus on screening and getting shots. Quicker shots on PP. More traffic in front of net. Hold ALL players accountable. If your top guys screw up, hold them accountable too. Give some of the guys in the stands more of a chance or even A chance. They are probably very hungry now. Sitting a top player will send a message. Not sure what is going on but the break out passing has been deteriorating. fix it. Consider moving your defensive pairings around. Oh yeah and quicker shots on PP. Once we work on that I can give you more. Even willing to write up the drills and plays for you if you want them.
Re: Colgate 2010-11
I agree 100%....We don't have much offensive talent on the points though. My biggest qualm is the breakout passing by the defensemen....very poor !! Quicker shots on the PP should be addressed too. As Gretzky stated once" Shoot the puck on goal, you'd be surprised what will happen ".
I agree 100%....We don't have much offensive talent on the points though. My biggest qualm is the breakout passing by the defensemen....very poor !! Quicker shots on the PP should be addressed too. As Gretzky stated once" Shoot the puck on goal, you'd be surprised what will happen ".
Glad you agree but I have to disagree with your comment about the offensive skill of the points. I think there is a lot of offensive skill they just aren't properly using it on pp. I'd also look at two very different set ups for the pp. One overload and one umbrella but play your best puck movement forward as the point on the umbrella and give him free reign to shoot or distribute the puck. Need more screening of the goalies and better low shoots. We have a lot of blocked shots because of the type of shot taken- slow release high slappers. Or we try way to jam down low on passes and force bad angle shots. I am sick of seeing long (slow release) shots up high. I'll take a long hard shot on the ice any day. Hard for a goalie to pick up through a screen, hard to block and more likely to generate a rebound. Who on this team is willing to take the abuse in front of the net to set screens on the pp and still be standing to play the rebound? I like some of the smaller thick guys with leverage over the big bodies. But are we just dumb armchair coaches or are these ideas the coaching staff is just passing over. Drastic times call for drastic measures.
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'Gate Radio
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2010-11
I think shooting more and quicker shots on the power play is something that we all can agree on. Moving the puck around the perimeter with sometimes three high is great but if it leads to turnovers and not shots, the movement is really all for naught. Colgate's recent power play success - four goals in the last three games has come from getting traffic in the high traffic areas and getting a screen shot deflection - Day twice and Prockow once. The other goal was a 5-on-3 and that was basically what appeared to be a generic set play to get a one-timer off from the circles.
It's not as if the coaches though aren't telling the kids to shoot. Our on-ice decisions at times of when to and when not to shoot have been poor and that's why you've had continual tinkering with the combinations by the coaches and no unit combinations have been kept together. The only constant that I've seen is that Day and Smith are usually on the same line and that makes sense given that they've played together for three years and have shown a track record of good chemistry.
Really what it comes down to for special teams is the playmakers and scorers making plays and scoring goals. A few guys traditionally relied upon for solid power play points - both forwards and defensemen - have really struggled this year. When they get going, and I think they will at some point, the power play will greatly improve. Keep in mind, in terms of the power play, everyone but McIntyre is back from last year - Cox and Williams weren't power play guys.
I think shooting more and quicker shots on the power play is something that we all can agree on. Moving the puck around the perimeter with sometimes three high is great but if it leads to turnovers and not shots, the movement is really all for naught. Colgate's recent power play success - four goals in the last three games has come from getting traffic in the high traffic areas and getting a screen shot deflection - Day twice and Prockow once. The other goal was a 5-on-3 and that was basically what appeared to be a generic set play to get a one-timer off from the circles.
It's not as if the coaches though aren't telling the kids to shoot. Our on-ice decisions at times of when to and when not to shoot have been poor and that's why you've had continual tinkering with the combinations by the coaches and no unit combinations have been kept together. The only constant that I've seen is that Day and Smith are usually on the same line and that makes sense given that they've played together for three years and have shown a track record of good chemistry.
Really what it comes down to for special teams is the playmakers and scorers making plays and scoring goals. A few guys traditionally relied upon for solid power play points - both forwards and defensemen - have really struggled this year. When they get going, and I think they will at some point, the power play will greatly improve. Keep in mind, in terms of the power play, everyone but McIntyre is back from last year - Cox and Williams weren't power play guys.
Re: Colgate 2010-11
This all sounds really good. I would jump in the car and drive down and run a practice. And while your there, see whom wants to lead the turn-around. Without a cohesive group, shooting quicker on the P.P. is a small step compared to a team wanting it for each other.
This all sounds really good. I would jump in the car and drive down and run a practice. And while your there, see whom wants to lead the turn-around. Without a cohesive group, shooting quicker on the P.P. is a small step compared to a team wanting it for each other.
Gaterrooter
Registered Raider
Re: Colgate 2010-11
Well if we're all offering solutions to the issues, I have a couple of points. We only lost 3 guys from the line up last year. I don't care how much they played, dropping from 4th to 8th maybe expected but 4th to last, how does that happen? Especially when you return every single D man and your #1 goalie.
I see the intensity missing from last year. Yes, D Mac took some stupid penalties last year but he was always was in some guys face and bringing some jam to the game. How many guys do you seeing playing with that intensity? I've seen maybe 2 or 3 tops.
Well if we're all offering solutions to the issues, I have a couple of points. We only lost 3 guys from the line up last year. I don't care how much they played, dropping from 4th to 8th maybe expected but 4th to last, how does that happen? Especially when you return every single D man and your #1 goalie.
I see the intensity missing from last year. Yes, D Mac took some stupid penalties last year but he was always was in some guys face and bringing some jam to the game. How many guys do you seeing playing with that intensity? I've seen maybe 2 or 3 tops.
ColSkate65
Signer of '65 Arena first beam.
Re: Colgate 2010-11
The first change that needs to be made is the pre-game skate music. It is god-awful this year! This just might be the trick to turning the team aound.
The first change that needs to be made is the pre-game skate music. It is god-awful this year! This just might be the trick to turning the team aound.
All of the forwards lost (excepting Carty as he saw limited action) we're physical players and took care of their own end first. Who on the current roster of forwards can you say that about? Day, Wagner, Mayer and ...?
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