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Coaching Openings
- Thread starter DelayedOffside
- Start date
Re: Coaching Openings
This is amusing (and ridiculous)... but I'll take a stab at it. You say your friend used to coach in college and said recruiting is overblown - is there a reason your friends not still in it? **First, I don't know what your hockey background is, but I'm sure you know, like all club programs - college programs vary. Some are run more "part-time" than others, mainly due to resources - so lets understand that there may some discrepancy in your experiences/what you have seen to the majority.
I think some of your points are irrelevant. Lets remember here, the question is "is it easier for a young female with a family to coach T1 club or D3 college?" Both are very valuable for the game of hockey. I'm debating this solely for those young females in that profession.
1. I'll give you this one. Shorter periods actually only saves a few minutes per day. Yes, colleges have 20 min periods and 12-15 min in between periods and some tournaments are set up in 40-60 min games, which may cut the time in half or more, even so - there's still travel and prep -- Obviously, college coaches typically have to be at rink 3(ish) hours before a game for setup. Most D3s don't have hockey ops/game management people, so they're setting up video equip, locker rooms, and then meeting with player. To play a 7pm a game, a coach probably leaves for the rink around 3 and then heads home around 10 once everything is packed up and players are gone. Longer if laundry or team meals are involved (which I think it is in a lot of D3s). Without travel, a 7+hr day for 1 game. Granted club coaches often play back-to-backs to get the most out of the time - they are probably in and out of rinks all day too. So, it's a mute point - game day is probably a wash (or too close to argue).
2. If you think recruiters are "doing it wrong" by driving thousands of miles a year - I'm not sure what you're experience with college athletics (any level) is. Walk into the Rush Showcase, NAHA Showcase, Beantown, Hockey Night, NAHA Labor Day, Stoney Creek, Two Nations, CT Polar Bears, Prep Showcases, JWHL weekends, PWHL tournaments, Nationals - you will see just about every D3 college coach at every one, not just 2-5 that their club team is playing in. There's 1000s of miles in those alone, but then you throw in those individual games during weekdays or "off mornings" and camps/clinics - the miles really stack up. But recruiting isn't just traveling to watch hockey. It's also courting. Show up to talk to kid at her game, recruiting calls on weeknights (because unlike boys in juniors, girls are in school during day), hosting visits for athletes and their parents, ensuring they can handle costs, setting them up with professors to talk to, etc., etc. It is time consuming, and probably the biggest difference between T1 and college.
3. Aside from many state schools, how many D3s have rinks on campus? A handful? The ones that win national championships, sure. At least half are off-campus, some just as far. Plus commutes from home are often much longer. The difference is college coaches are at rink typically 7 days/wk. Sometimes multiple trips. Practice, games, extra ice, tours and extra responsibility at rink all adds trips. Although I think you're mistaken in what it takes to coach in college, I don't like this point. Jobs and hobbies have commutes. You have to drive no matter, whatever.
4. Yes, they recruit the best kids you can. Yes, they are still 18-22yo females. The college dynamic has changed. A coach isn't just a coach. Schools want wins but also higher retention, stronger grades, better student experience, community service, etc. from athletics. Watching kids 24/7 doesn't necessarily mean discipline (sometimes, yes - they are college kids). It means academic planning, monitoring study halls, community service, team activities, etc. When your player gets strep and ends up in the hospital at 3am on a Tuesday, who's the adult expected to be there? D3 coach. When your team is serving food at the local mission Sunday afternoons from 11-3, who's also there? D3 coach. When your player needs to work on her foot speed and her only time for an extra workout is Mon, Wednesday, Sunday 6-7am, who's there? D3 coach. You get the idea. It is a 24/7 job - not because the "kiddies" are bad "kiddies," but because in today's world, it's just expected. D1s might have resources for strength trainers, academic coordinators, etc. D3s typically don't.
5. The fact that you think D3s have tons of help is probably a testament to how well those coaches actually DO pick them. I just want to clear something up. A few D3s have full-time assistants (often because they coach 2 sports or have extra duties), some have grad assistants getting their masters with limited # of hrs they can work, some have volunteers that work other full-time jobs like T1s and if they're really lucky, some have ones that are young and sacrifice money to get into the profession. Just because you see those faces all the time, doesn't mean they're compensated. Go ask a D3 college asst. what they make. Aside from a few schools with full-times, you would laugh. The coach probably did find someone great. You say T1s are lucky to have some parent (many club benches have young females who were former college players as assts now), but what exactly more do you need? Someone to be at pract. and games and help manage the players/parents. Colleges have more help because there's more to be done. Scheduling practice around the classes of the 13 different majors on your team, running workouts, academic monitoring, community service, and the most time consuming - recruiting.
6. Parents are going to be bad on both sides of the coin. Parents in club level pay high costs to get their kid recruited. Parents in D3 pay high costs for academic and athletic mix. Yes, you can do your homework and pick and choose - but the fact of the matter is parents will be parents. There has to be communication on some level.
*Fundraising was mentioned earlier for HS. Laughable if you think D3s have so much in their budget they don't need to fund raise. Yes, it may not be for ice time, but travel costs, apparel, tournament fees, food, equipment, team activities, facilities, even to pay volunteer coaches, etc. Ask any college coach if they fund raise. Some are required too, the rest just do it.
*Spending years as a D3 assistant? Because they need to do that to learn enough to take the next step (D3 head coach, D1 assistant or head prep coach). Also, maybe they start as a D3 grad assistant or volunteer and work their way up to a full-time D3 assistant. There are very few college hockey jobs for women. They sacrifice to take what they can get.
The fact of the matter is, it's hard for young women to be in college coaching while raising a family (especially hockey with the recruiting travel being so far in distance). It is a 24/7 job. They are always responsible for your athletes, unlike in the T1 scenario. Some make it work, most cannot (proof is in the pudding by how many stay in it post-family). Probably coaching at the prep school level is easiest for young females with families. Yes you would have to work a second job (teaching, admissions, etc) but schedules are designed for it. Certainly that is also a 24/7 job, but the families can be part of the job in that setting. ... It's too bad. Would like to see more young females who have been through the college ranks, coaching college hockey... or hockey in general.
This is amusing (and ridiculous)... but I'll take a stab at it. You say your friend used to coach in college and said recruiting is overblown - is there a reason your friends not still in it? **First, I don't know what your hockey background is, but I'm sure you know, like all club programs - college programs vary. Some are run more "part-time" than others, mainly due to resources - so lets understand that there may some discrepancy in your experiences/what you have seen to the majority.
I think some of your points are irrelevant. Lets remember here, the question is "is it easier for a young female with a family to coach T1 club or D3 college?" Both are very valuable for the game of hockey. I'm debating this solely for those young females in that profession.
1. I'll give you this one. Shorter periods actually only saves a few minutes per day. Yes, colleges have 20 min periods and 12-15 min in between periods and some tournaments are set up in 40-60 min games, which may cut the time in half or more, even so - there's still travel and prep -- Obviously, college coaches typically have to be at rink 3(ish) hours before a game for setup. Most D3s don't have hockey ops/game management people, so they're setting up video equip, locker rooms, and then meeting with player. To play a 7pm a game, a coach probably leaves for the rink around 3 and then heads home around 10 once everything is packed up and players are gone. Longer if laundry or team meals are involved (which I think it is in a lot of D3s). Without travel, a 7+hr day for 1 game. Granted club coaches often play back-to-backs to get the most out of the time - they are probably in and out of rinks all day too. So, it's a mute point - game day is probably a wash (or too close to argue).
2. If you think recruiters are "doing it wrong" by driving thousands of miles a year - I'm not sure what you're experience with college athletics (any level) is. Walk into the Rush Showcase, NAHA Showcase, Beantown, Hockey Night, NAHA Labor Day, Stoney Creek, Two Nations, CT Polar Bears, Prep Showcases, JWHL weekends, PWHL tournaments, Nationals - you will see just about every D3 college coach at every one, not just 2-5 that their club team is playing in. There's 1000s of miles in those alone, but then you throw in those individual games during weekdays or "off mornings" and camps/clinics - the miles really stack up. But recruiting isn't just traveling to watch hockey. It's also courting. Show up to talk to kid at her game, recruiting calls on weeknights (because unlike boys in juniors, girls are in school during day), hosting visits for athletes and their parents, ensuring they can handle costs, setting them up with professors to talk to, etc., etc. It is time consuming, and probably the biggest difference between T1 and college.
3. Aside from many state schools, how many D3s have rinks on campus? A handful? The ones that win national championships, sure. At least half are off-campus, some just as far. Plus commutes from home are often much longer. The difference is college coaches are at rink typically 7 days/wk. Sometimes multiple trips. Practice, games, extra ice, tours and extra responsibility at rink all adds trips. Although I think you're mistaken in what it takes to coach in college, I don't like this point. Jobs and hobbies have commutes. You have to drive no matter, whatever.
4. Yes, they recruit the best kids you can. Yes, they are still 18-22yo females. The college dynamic has changed. A coach isn't just a coach. Schools want wins but also higher retention, stronger grades, better student experience, community service, etc. from athletics. Watching kids 24/7 doesn't necessarily mean discipline (sometimes, yes - they are college kids). It means academic planning, monitoring study halls, community service, team activities, etc. When your player gets strep and ends up in the hospital at 3am on a Tuesday, who's the adult expected to be there? D3 coach. When your team is serving food at the local mission Sunday afternoons from 11-3, who's also there? D3 coach. When your player needs to work on her foot speed and her only time for an extra workout is Mon, Wednesday, Sunday 6-7am, who's there? D3 coach. You get the idea. It is a 24/7 job - not because the "kiddies" are bad "kiddies," but because in today's world, it's just expected. D1s might have resources for strength trainers, academic coordinators, etc. D3s typically don't.
5. The fact that you think D3s have tons of help is probably a testament to how well those coaches actually DO pick them. I just want to clear something up. A few D3s have full-time assistants (often because they coach 2 sports or have extra duties), some have grad assistants getting their masters with limited # of hrs they can work, some have volunteers that work other full-time jobs like T1s and if they're really lucky, some have ones that are young and sacrifice money to get into the profession. Just because you see those faces all the time, doesn't mean they're compensated. Go ask a D3 college asst. what they make. Aside from a few schools with full-times, you would laugh. The coach probably did find someone great. You say T1s are lucky to have some parent (many club benches have young females who were former college players as assts now), but what exactly more do you need? Someone to be at pract. and games and help manage the players/parents. Colleges have more help because there's more to be done. Scheduling practice around the classes of the 13 different majors on your team, running workouts, academic monitoring, community service, and the most time consuming - recruiting.
6. Parents are going to be bad on both sides of the coin. Parents in club level pay high costs to get their kid recruited. Parents in D3 pay high costs for academic and athletic mix. Yes, you can do your homework and pick and choose - but the fact of the matter is parents will be parents. There has to be communication on some level.
*Fundraising was mentioned earlier for HS. Laughable if you think D3s have so much in their budget they don't need to fund raise. Yes, it may not be for ice time, but travel costs, apparel, tournament fees, food, equipment, team activities, facilities, even to pay volunteer coaches, etc. Ask any college coach if they fund raise. Some are required too, the rest just do it.
*Spending years as a D3 assistant? Because they need to do that to learn enough to take the next step (D3 head coach, D1 assistant or head prep coach). Also, maybe they start as a D3 grad assistant or volunteer and work their way up to a full-time D3 assistant. There are very few college hockey jobs for women. They sacrifice to take what they can get.
The fact of the matter is, it's hard for young women to be in college coaching while raising a family (especially hockey with the recruiting travel being so far in distance). It is a 24/7 job. They are always responsible for your athletes, unlike in the T1 scenario. Some make it work, most cannot (proof is in the pudding by how many stay in it post-family). Probably coaching at the prep school level is easiest for young females with families. Yes you would have to work a second job (teaching, admissions, etc) but schedules are designed for it. Certainly that is also a 24/7 job, but the families can be part of the job in that setting. ... It's too bad. Would like to see more young females who have been through the college ranks, coaching college hockey... or hockey in general.
I wonder if they had known about Matt Kelly leaving for a while and were waiting till they officially announced his leaving before they announced her hiring. Are they looking for another replacement for Matt or was she it?
Re: Coaching Openings
IMHO she was the replacement for Shannon and had been in place before Kellys leaving for USA slot. Now they have to get a replacement for Kelly.
IMHO she was the replacement for Shannon and had been in place before Kellys leaving for USA slot. Now they have to get a replacement for Kelly.
Re: Coaching Openings
Clarkson head coach actually tweeted, one hire down.. one more to go.......so they will be looking for another assitant.
Clarkson head coach actually tweeted, one hire down.. one more to go.......so they will be looking for another assitant.
CrossCheck
New member
Re: Coaching Openings
Couldn't disagree more. The mere fact that you have 2-4 assistant coaches to help you ends the debate right there. [now what "complete school while playing, attend graduate school while coaching and working.." has to do with what we are discussing, I have no idea. The question was the comparison of 'hockey work' when comparing T1 coaching to D3. And not for nothing...try doing all the T1 coaching AND a FULL TIME JOB...and FAMILY/SPOUSE commitments....Again, not even close.
Again, as I do not wish to get into a "Trolling" debate with you on a public forum I would suggest that some of your assumptions that you interpret as being factual are way off base. While youth hockey and girls hockey especially can be very challenging, you have absolutely no idea what it takes for a young woman to complete school while playing, attend graduate school while coaching and working extra due to the marginal pay and then wade through the hundreds of very qualified potential coaches who compete for a very few spots. Then once given the opportunity, this business at D1 or D3 is very demanding as far as available budget, recruiting (which you have no idea how much time is involved), and the business of actually setting schedules, running your home rink, and conforming to the NCAA Rule Book Regulations. I haven't even touched on the teaching aspect of all the girls who may have some potential, but due to the "Think They Know it All" mentality of their parents and unqualified Youth Coaches who don't even know the basic fundamentals of the game to begin with, must be re-taught before even being allowed to look at the College Coaches Playbook. Sir, if your D is even fortunate enough to be recruited to D3, much less D1, your eyes will be pried wide open.
Chip
Couldn't disagree more. The mere fact that you have 2-4 assistant coaches to help you ends the debate right there. [now what "complete school while playing, attend graduate school while coaching and working.." has to do with what we are discussing, I have no idea. The question was the comparison of 'hockey work' when comparing T1 coaching to D3. And not for nothing...try doing all the T1 coaching AND a FULL TIME JOB...and FAMILY/SPOUSE commitments....Again, not even close.
Just announced Meghan Duggan for the other assistant coaching position.
Re: Coaching Openings
Thanks, here is the link.
http://clarkson.edu/news/2014/news-release_2014-09-05-1.html
Thanks, here is the link.
http://clarkson.edu/news/2014/news-release_2014-09-05-1.html
papulaisle
Registered User
papulaisle
Registered User
Re: Coaching Openings
Wondering how much Yale's men paved the way for Clarkson's women. Both in ECAC. Both bringing 'cups' back to the East following a 'drought', say. Also, back to back winners. The men despite adjacent Quinnipiac's aspirations. Has this been covered, delved into ... even ice hockey families with connections along the Sound in Connecticut in New Haven, or as well in the 'North Country', Potsdam. Early programs that nurtured male and female athletes- on the same 'ponds'? We know the (ice hockey) history, say, of Trumbull. Are there any connections I wonder that found the one, Yale, inspiring perhaps the other and how so-
Wondering how much Yale's men paved the way for Clarkson's women. Both in ECAC. Both bringing 'cups' back to the East following a 'drought', say. Also, back to back winners. The men despite adjacent Quinnipiac's aspirations. Has this been covered, delved into ... even ice hockey families with connections along the Sound in Connecticut in New Haven, or as well in the 'North Country', Potsdam. Early programs that nurtured male and female athletes- on the same 'ponds'? We know the (ice hockey) history, say, of Trumbull. Are there any connections I wonder that found the one, Yale, inspiring perhaps the other and how so-
96IllinoisDad
New member
Re: Coaching Openings
I found it interesting that new head coaches Scanlan (BSU) and Rud (SCSU) didn't make an appearance to Stoney Creek to scout the girls, the level of play and the various teams. They also missed an opportunity network with coaches from most of the top teams in North America. (Maybe they went to NAHA. NAHA hasn't updated their scout list.) I would have thought Stoney would be the best opportunity for these two in particular to make an appearance prior to the start of the season for a lot of reasons. This is the case despite the fact that they both had seasoned assistants make the trip.
Witt (UNH) and Spencer (Lindenwood) made the trip with assitants. Reichenbach (Maine) didn't, but he has been in the "system" for years.
I found it interesting that new head coaches Scanlan (BSU) and Rud (SCSU) didn't make an appearance to Stoney Creek to scout the girls, the level of play and the various teams. They also missed an opportunity network with coaches from most of the top teams in North America. (Maybe they went to NAHA. NAHA hasn't updated their scout list.) I would have thought Stoney would be the best opportunity for these two in particular to make an appearance prior to the start of the season for a lot of reasons. This is the case despite the fact that they both had seasoned assistants make the trip.
Witt (UNH) and Spencer (Lindenwood) made the trip with assitants. Reichenbach (Maine) didn't, but he has been in the "system" for years.
Re: Coaching Openings
Speaking of UNH it looks like another Alum to the coaching Ranks.
http://merrimackathletics.com/sports/wice/2014-15/releases/201409241grb70
Speaking of UNH it looks like another Alum to the coaching Ranks.
http://merrimackathletics.com/sports/wice/2014-15/releases/201409241grb70
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hmm, disappointing that at least 1 of the 3 coaches did not make a appearance. Your right 96ill.. Great opportunity missed.
QuarterDeck
New member
Re: Coaching Openings
do coaches still get hired at this time of year?
do coaches still get hired at this time of year?
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Coaches get hired at any time of year if there is an opening. It usually isn't in the best interest of the program to create an opening at this time of year, particularly for a head coach.
DelayedOffside
New member
Re: Coaching Openings
They made a hire several weeks ago. For whatever reason it hasn't been published on the website yet.
They made a hire several weeks ago. For whatever reason it hasn't been published on the website yet.