Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

My dream for the GOP convention:
Nobody has a majority
Floor fights - REAL floor fights
Candidates screaming at each other
Multiple ballots
TV anchors trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Some floor announcer getting caught up in the floor fight.

A compromise candidate after 2 days of balloting.
Everyone singing "Kumbaya" at the end.
---------------
It would prove educational for the American people for a convention not to be a scripted made for TV event. I don't think we've had once since San Francisco in 1964.

 

[Jimjamesak]

My dream for the GOP convention:
Nobody has a majority
Floor fights - REAL floor fights
Candidates screaming at each other
Multiple ballots
TV anchors trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Some floor announcer getting caught up in the floor fight.

A compromise candidate after 2 days of balloting.
Everyone singing "Kumbaya" at the end.
---------------
It would prove educational for the American people for a convention not to be a scripted made for TV event. I don't think we've had once since San Francisco in 1964.

Uh Chicago 1968?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

My dream for the GOP convention:
Nobody has a majority
Floor fights - REAL floor fights
Candidates screaming at each other
Multiple ballots
TV anchors trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Some floor announcer getting caught up in the floor fight.

A compromise candidate after 2 days of balloting.
Everyone singing "Kumbaya" at the end.
---------------
It would prove educational for the American people for a convention not to be a scripted made for TV event. I don't think we've had once since San Francisco in 1964.

Uh... Chicago '68 (D) FTW.

KC '76 (R) was actually a bitter, dirty convention but all the hi-jinks happened off stage in the rules committees. That's where the cameras should be. That's where the sh*t actually all goes down.

Miami '72 (D) was supposedly just a drug-fueled orgy of rage and blackmail, but that was according to HST who would write that about a DAR bridge club.

 

[joecct]

Uh Chicago 1968?

IIRC Chicago was a series of rule fights aimed against the political machines. Dick Dailey got unseated, HHH was the reluctant candidate.

The dream was one Kennedy would have been saying goodbye and another would be raised to the Pantheon.

I wonder if Bobby had made it to Chicago if run amok would have happened. Kennedys (well those two) were realists and did whatever it took to win. Dailey would have been courted.

OUTSIDE the convention was an exercise in anarchy.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Oh, Tweety...

Besides which, Cruz would wipe the floor with Rubio.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

IIRC Chicago was a series of rule fights aimed against the political machines. Dick Dailey got unseated, HHH was the reluctant candidate.

The dream was one Kennedy would have been saying goodbye and another would be raised to the Pantheon.

I wonder if Bobby had made it to Chicago if run amok would have happened. Kennedys (well those two) were realists and did whatever it took to win. Dailey would have been courted.

OUTSIDE the convention was an exercise in anarchy.

Agreed on Daley and labor in general. In 1960, the Kennedys had Daley inside the tent ****ing out. They would have swept to the nomination and destroyed Nixon. Ironically they would have been more conservative on some fronts. (In particular they might have provoked a nuclear war with the Russians or a regional war with nuclear exchange with the Chinese, so it aint all good). The Kennedys were many things, but they weren't peaceniks. But they'd probably have held the northern white working class for the Democrats and saved us from the Reaganite halfwits.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Agreed on Daley and labor in general. In 1960, the Kennedys had Daley inside the tent ****ing out. They would have swept to the nomination and destroyed Nixon. Ironically they would have been more conservative on some fronts. (In particular they might have provoked a nuclear war with the Russians or a regional war with nuclear exchange with the Chinese, so it aint all good). The Kennedys were many things, but they weren't peaceniks. But they'd probably have held the northern white working class for the Democrats and saved us from the Reaganite halfwits.

Like 1960, in 1968 it took a while for Illinois to be decided. I was in 8th grade and we had the transistors out in Social Studies when it was reported Illinois went for Nixon. Dick Dailey had his revenge.

The rule, which D's forget every once in a while, is don't F with the Chicago Machine.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

The irony is Hillary's supporters are far more obsessed with her than Bernie's are with him. All the polling indicates that Bernie's voters are more measured in their response and more willing to move to Hillary in the general, while Hillary's voters are intransigent and on a Quest of Destiny. There's nothing wrong with that fixation, but it certainly rips the entrails out of the media's mischaracterization of Bernie's followers as Latter Day Naderites.

But you enjoy that dwindling lead based on name recognition and lofo voters. If your candidate can't close a Democratic nomination how on Earth is she supposed to win a general? "Electability" arguments always refute themselves: if Y is so terrible but Y beats X then X would have been even worse.

If you change a few buzzwords around, the average Rover post would fit in on the righty web sites for their candidate du jour

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Source, please?

As I said, I hope for your sake he does win Iowa. Bernie's supporters are developing a God complex, and that doesn't tend to end well.



From the looks of it you've gotten close enough to Bernie to be able to tell!

I am not nearly as stalkerish with Bernie as you are with the Cyborg...wipe the motor-oil off your chin! Hell I didnt see the guy speak and he was 2 miles away...if you were that close to the Shrill you would break out in hives!

Hell you are more obsessed with me than I am with Bernie...and look I am flattered but I am a human being and dont wear pantsuits so walk away

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I am not nearly as stalkerish with Bernie as you are with the Cyborg...wipe the motor-oil off your chin! Hell I didnt see the guy speak and he was 2 miles away...if you were that close to the Shrill you would break out in hives!

Hell you are more obsessed with me than I am with Bernie...and look I am flattered but I am a human being and dont wear pantsuits so walk away

Handy I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ain't nobody obsessed with you! You're just "there".

Interesting:

Among those with whom you can match to a registered voter list in the Marist poll in Iowa, Clinton is up 25. Down 18 among those you can't.
— Harry Enten (@ForecasterEnten) January 28, 2016

So, the implication here is that Sanders needs to register a whole lotta voters in the next few days, which I believe is still an option but not sure the cutoff date. This certainly helps explain some of the divergent polling (and for the record this poll has Clinton up by 3).

For example, look at Support Strength here.

.

Kep I read the whole thing. Where does it say that Hillary supporters are less likely to support Sanders if he wins? All I saw I there was that her voters were more likely to stay with her throughout the primaries.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Opus's description of Megyn Kelly.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I have to give Trump credit. Name me one other candidate who has the balls to tell Fox to go screw? Yes, maybe the guy's insane but still, his ability to stick it to the media is maybe the only redeeming quality the dude has.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Opus's description of Megyn Kelly.

Slowly I turned...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kep I read the whole thing. Where does it say that Hillary supporters are less likely to support Sanders if he wins? All I saw I there was that her voters were more likely to stay with her throughout the primaries.

I interpret "won't change my mind" as a measure of loyalty. The numbers suggest Hillary's followers are more loyal. Your hypothesis, that Bernie voters are obsessed with Bernie, would predict the opposite.

If Hillary squeaks through I'm with her 100%. I just hope you can say the same about Bernie. Eyes on the prize, man. THIS is what I want to see in November.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I interpret "won't change my mind" as a measure of loyalty. The numbers suggest Hillary's followers are more loyal. Your hypothesis, that Bernie voters are obsessed with Bernie, would predict the opposite.

If Hillary squeaks through I'm with her 100%. I just hope you can say the same about Bernie. Eyes on the prize, man. THIS is what I want to see in November.

My interpretation of obsession was "won't vote for candidate x if their own candidate doesn't win". Sounds like we were talking about different things, so no biggie.

Yes I will happily support Sanders in the general election while expecting him to lose Mondale/Dukakis style. Personally I think he'd do better against Cruz, a swarmy, canned politician with zero personality, than he would against Trump who has a talent for throwing zingers that stick and define his opponents. In that contest I'd picture Bernie trying to have an academic discussion with a guy orchestrating a carnival. Sadly its not too hard to see who would draw the most attention....

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

My interpretation of obsession was "won't vote for candidate x if their own candidate doesn't win". Sounds like we were talking about different things, so no biggie.

Yes I will happily support Sanders in the general election while expecting him to lose Mondale/Dukakis style. Personally I think he'd do better against Cruz, a swarmy, canned politician with zero personality, than he would against Trump who has a talent for throwing zingers that stick and define his opponents. In that contest I'd picture Bernie trying to have an academic discussion with a guy orchestrating a carnival. Sadly its not too hard to see who would draw the most attention....

A Sanders-Cruz election would actually seriously debate the issues. Cruz is a skunk, but he's a substantive skunk, and it's about time we ripped the band-aid off a lot of "intellectual" conservative tripe that's festered for decades. I get the impression that while neither is above using manipulative political devices, each believes in his heart that he can win "straight": Bernie because he knows he's right, and Cruz because he's an arrogant *****.

I think Cruz and Trump are such disasters that Bernie would easily beat either. Neither has the ability to say "this guy is beyond the pale" because so are they! Hillary would have more of a problem, because each match-up would tend to highlight her weaknesses. Hillary always looks appalled that she has to actually run for the presidency: why doesn't everybody understand that she "deserves" it? Cruz' punchable face and Trump's punchable everything convey something similar. But I think she would still win if only because the EVs are aligned well for the Dems at the moment.

The opponent against whom Hillary would do better than Bernie is Rubio. She would murder him. Bernie, OTOH, would look even older and crazier compared to him than he does now. And while Rubio is as inane as a Fox News hostess that works on the small brains.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

He's a centrist Democrat, and that's an important part of the Democratic coalition. He's a social liberal and an economic centrist, like Bill and Hillary and, disappointingly, Obama.

We need all parts of the coalition to beat back White ISIS in the Fall. We can get along quite well as a coalition of sentient beings against the rising tide of guttural vengeance on the right. Everyone is welcome.

Self included. Government needs to manage specific business issues. It needs to stop many mergers (whose outcomes represent distortions in the marketplace) and stop tax loopholes (like low long term capital gains tax). Income disparity is a major problem...but its structural and we need to continue to manage it via education and public assistance. But beyond that, business is our ally. I can't argue with a CEO responsible for creating a hundred jobs getting paid a lot of money. He/she deserves it.

Oh and Obama has been a great president.

My interpretation of obsession was "won't vote for candidate x if their own candidate doesn't win". Sounds like we were talking about different things, so no biggie.

Yes I will happily support Sanders in the general election while expecting him to lose Mondale/Dukakis style. Personally I think he'd do better against Cruz, a swarmy, canned politician with zero personality, than he would against Trump who has a talent for throwing zingers that stick and define his opponents. In that contest I'd picture Bernie trying to have an academic discussion with a guy orchestrating a carnival. Sadly its not too hard to see who would draw the most attention....

Not exactly my kind of candidate (a total fighter), but I don't mind Sanders. I also see him going down in flames though. I can't think of a candidate like Sanders ever getting elected in our history. Only Hillary has such widespread support. Beyond that, its probably Trump (regardless of who he criticizes).

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

I really am loathe to underestimate Trump despite my personal revulsion of the man. He's playing everybody, from the media to the GOP insiders, like a harp from hell. That takes talent. I've gone through too many elections expecting reason and logic to win out, when emotion and labeling carried the day.

Trump as a pitchman knows what buttons to push. He has no shame so he's immune to criticism. His universal name recognition also helps. IF he wins the nomination, I would not be surprised to see him flawlessly pivot in the general election and actually tell the truth about why - he was just saying what he needed to in order to secure the nomination. Now who are you going to vote for, me or Hillary/Bernie? For whatever reason, he might just get away with that and keep the base with him.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

IF he wins the nomination, I would not be surprised to see him flawlessly pivot in the general election and actually tell the truth about why - he was just saying what he needed to in order to secure the nomination. Now who are you going to vote for, me or Hillary/Bernie? For whatever reason, he might just get away with that and keep the base with him.

Oh, I think the base would stay with him. From what I can tell, conservatives stay with a candidate as long as their conservatives. If Cruz won and came out of the closet as a total moderate, his base would be gone. For those who follow Trump, true conservatism is not at the top of the list. With Trump, they just 'feel it'. He mesmerizes them with his 'leadership'. They will follow him regardless of where he goes in the main election. The question is whether he can pick up mainstream (and any minority votes) enough to get him across the line.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

IF he wins the nomination, I would not be surprised to see him flawlessly pivot in the general election and actually tell the truth about why - he was just saying what he needed to in order to secure the nomination. Now who are you going to vote for, me or Hillary/Bernie? For whatever reason, he might just get away with that and keep the base with him.

Now that would be fascinating.