What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

mookie1995 said:
Yah, good luck with that :D
Click to expand...

A girl can dream.

I always figured the Japanese would lick the renewables problem because advanced technological society plus no raw materials equals the mother of invention. I'm still surprised (and miffed) that didn't happen.

If I ran a petrodollar economy I'd have been spending every penny of those trillions since October 1973 figuring it out. Well, that and FTL.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
A girl can dream.

I always figured the Japanese would lick the renewables problem because advanced technological society plus no raw materials equals the mother of invention. I'm still surprised (and miffed) that didn't happen.
Click to expand...

Ummm....maybe because its not as easy you think?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Rover said:
We can inject Bernie vs Hillary into this if you'd like, but putting that aside since this campaign started you've become a lefty version of a Cruz supporter. An absolutist who thinks your righteousness will carry the day with the electorate. You're out of your mind if you think people living paycheck to paycheck and probably not wasting energy are going to happily vote to maintain higher energy prices while they wait for windmills to come on line. Its like Sanders loons thinking the working poor and middle class are going to take a 6-8% increase in their tax rates for the fuzzy goal of single payer health care. I mean, the old geezer will lose to Rick Santorum if he runs on that. :rolleyes:

At some point you have to face the voters, and you can have your beliefs and be confident in the purity of your position, but if the rest of the people think you're nuts, you'll lose and you'll get nothing. Worse, you'll get any gains achieved thus far reversed. There's nothing wrong with increased natural gas production (which is what we're talking about here) while clean energy continues to grow in use. Its not like we're building new coal plants. The sooner you understand the politics of reality, the better off you're going to be regardless of what election cycle we're in and who the candidates are.
Click to expand...

I love how you assume you know what the average voter thinks or cares about. No wonder you love The Shrill she is completely out of touch with the average citizen (and completely tone deaf) too.

Just keep pretending people dont think for themselves...that is how your Pantsuited Cyborg lost to Obama too. You may think the average voter wont take a tax hike for insurance and free college but the thousands showing up at Bernie rallies (14k last night in St. Paul mostly youths and middle class) beg to differ. Of course you probably assume these people cant do basic math either.

The Progressives dont like your Cyborg, and they arent going to tow the party line just cause she is the presumptive nominee. They will vote for her against The Clown Show...but that is it. As long as a Progressive candidate is out there they will chose them over someone always preaching status quo. They did it for Obama and they will do it for Bernie.

[insert irrelevant Ralph Nader comment here]
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Handyman said:
The Progressives dont like your Cyborg, and they arent going to tow the party line just cause she is the presumptive nominee. They will vote for her against The Clown Show...but that is it. As long as a Progressive candidate is out there they will chose them over someone always preaching status quo. They did it for Obama and they will do it for Bernie.
Click to expand...

This is really what it comes down to. In Rover's world there are only Pragmatists vs Utopians. But in the real world there is another dimension: Idealists vs Defeatists.

Rover is a Pragmatic Defeatist. He believes that the Clintons are the best America can ever have because if you get any better than they the Republican Gorgon will swoop in and gobble up all our children. His conventional wisdom has run the Democratic party elite since the Al Gore and Bill Clinton and the DLC captured the DNC in 1991, and the Democratic party became a centrist party whose highest ambition was to hold the GOP orcs at bay. That justified all the deal cutting with Wall Street and all the triangulating on the Patriot Act and the invasion of Iraq.

But that CW is now so old and outgrown that it has become self-limiting. Liberalism's defeats of the 80s were exogenous, but our defeats of the 00s are endogenous -- they stem from the Defeatism that is now deep in the bones of the Democratic old guard and perfectly personified by Hillary.

I'm a Pragmatic Idealist, which is why Rover doesn't understand either me or roughly half the people who are hoping Bernie beats Hillary in the primaries. If Bernie doesn't, we'll turn around and support Hillary because we're pragmatists and we understand the spectacular evil that glowers from the right. But in the meantime we also know that you can't turn against a prevailing current unless you oversteer. To achieve a middle course in American politics you have to steer FAR left to compensate for the strong corporatist headwinds that push our economic policy to the right. You have to aim for 80% top marginal rates to get 40%. You have to aim for garroting the entire board of Goldman on the Department of Treasury lawn to get even the slightest criminal penalties against the people who deliberately defrauded the public of billions.

Rover sees none of this, because the other side has effectively removed his balls. He equates any attempt to revive a real left -- a left he won't necessarily like, by the way -- with the insipid Utopian Defeatism of Nader who claimed there was not a dime's worth a difference between the parties. That's why Rover's rhetoric is always just plain wrong when he tries to imagine what liberals are thinking. He doesn't really believe there are any liberals left: just world weary centrists and then some naive lunatics.

In other words, Rover has adopted the political mindset of Donald Rumsfeld. Everyone who disagree with him on his own side is simply weak-minded. To Rover, the greatest danger to holding power is using it for your ideals.

That doesn't build a party, it's just a soft form of purging, and it spells electoral disaster, because the country will not follow leaders who lack the courage of their convictions. And, really, who can blame them?
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Handyman said:
tow the party line
Click to expand...

wikipedia said:
"Toe the line" is often misspelled "tow the line", substituting a familiar verb "tow" for the homophonic but unfamiliar verbal use of "toe." "Tow" does not accord with any of the proposed etymologies, so "tow the line" is a linguistic eggcorn.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'll slap myself for you.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

joecct said:
Aren't the books cooked in her favor? Even DWS has told us so!

But, if HRC does blow it again, is Jumpin' Joe Biden the new (and improved) candidate of the Establishment?
Click to expand...

That would be even worse for the establishment. A Biden entry now would split the centrist vote and hand the nomination to Bernie.

For the establishment, the first choice is still to somehow ram Wu Zetian down our throats. The second choice is she gets indicted and Joltin' Joe or somebody else steps in. But for that to work it has to happen really soon. So I think they're stuck with their girl, as Fred MacMurray said, "straight down the line."
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Man am I inside the heads of you people. :D I think Kep mentioned my name 8 times in one post! That's like some sorta record, isn't it?

Kep, you and Handy can play with yourselves to Sanders' photograph all you want, and that's between you and whoever's in the stall next to you in the men's room. I'm not here to judge. However, the man is radioactive in the general election by calling for a 6% payroll tax increase on EVERYBODY, including the working poor, in order to pay for the unrealistic dream of single payer. For lower middle class and middle class people, he adds an extra 2% on top. Mind you, working poor people in many ways have their health care expenses already subsidized, so you're asking them to pay more money to fund the health care for everyone else. That's as anti-progressive as you can get. I thought his mantra was to tax the rich, not tax the poor? :confused:

I don't care what the vegan co-op thinks about paying more money in taxes for a pie in the sky proposal. If Sanders runs as the Dem nominee on that platform, he will get crushed. Furthermore, by virtue of getting crushed, the GOP will control all levers of government, AND be on their way to a 60 vote Senate majority when the 2018 mid terms roll around given that the Dems are playing defense in red states that year (IN, ND, MT, etc). This is the price of your lust for a 75 year old loon who apparently thinks he'll wave a magic wand to get all these things accomplished. I'd like to live in a country where there are some Dems left. I don't want to go through another 49 state to 1 blowout. Sadly, that's all Bernie has to offer us.

PS: You'd better hope Sanders wins Iowa because if he doesn't I'd suggest you take a vacation from the board for a few days afterwards....;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Rover said:
Man am I inside the heads of you people. :D I think Kep mentioned my name 8 times in one post! That's like some sorta record, isn't it?

Kep, you and Handy can play with yourselves to Sanders' photograph all you want, and that's between you and whoever's in the stall next to you in the men's room. I'm not here to judge. However, the man is radioactive in the general election by calling for a 6% payroll tax increase on EVERYBODY, including the working poor, in order to pay for the unrealistic dream of single payer. For lower middle class and middle class people, he adds an extra 2% on top. Mind you, working poor people in many ways have their health care expenses already subsidized, so you're asking them to pay more money to fund the health care for everyone else. That's as anti-progressive as you can get. I thought his mantra was to tax the rich, not tax the poor? :confused:

I don't care what the vegan co-op thinks about paying more money in taxes for a pie in the sky proposal. If Sanders runs as the Dem nominee on that platform, he will get crushed. Furthermore, by virtue of getting crushed, the GOP will control all levers of government, AND be on their way to a 60 vote Senate majority when the 2018 mid terms roll around given that the Dems are playing defense in red states that year (IN, ND, MT, etc). This is the price of your lust for a 75 year old loon who apparently thinks he'll wave a magic wand to get all these things accomplished. I'd like to live in a country where there are some Dems left. I don't want to go through another 49 state to 1 blowout. Sadly, that's all Bernie has to offer us.

PS: You'd better hope Sanders wins Iowa because if he doesn't I'd suggest you take a vacation from the board for a few days afterwards....;)
Click to expand...

You realize that your lame sexual jokes are not nearly as clever as you think they are right? Though Bernie is probably closer to a real woman than the Cyborg you worship so I guess I take it as a complement :p

My lord...you really arent a liberal at all are you?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Rover said:
Kep, you and Handy can play with yourselves to Sanders' photograph all you want, and that's between you and whoever's in the stall next to you
Click to expand...

The irony is Hillary's supporters are far more obsessed with her than Bernie's are with him. All the polling indicates that Bernie's voters are more measured in their response and more willing to move to Hillary in the general, while Hillary's voters are intransigent and on a Quest of Destiny. There's nothing wrong with that fixation, but it certainly rips the entrails out of the media's mischaracterization of Bernie's followers as Latter Day Naderites. :p

But you enjoy that dwindling lead based on name recognition and lofo voters. If your candidate can't close a Democratic nomination how on Earth is she supposed to win a general? "Electability" arguments always refute themselves: if Y is so terrible but Y beats X then X would have been even worse.
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Handyman said:
My lord...you really arent a liberal at all are you?
Click to expand...

He's a centrist Democrat, and that's an important part of the Democratic coalition. He's a social liberal and an economic centrist, like Bill and Hillary and, disappointingly, Obama.

We need all parts of the coalition to beat back White ISIS in the Fall. We can get along quite well as a coalition of sentient beings against the rising tide of guttural vengeance on the right. Everyone is welcome. :)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Kepler said:
All the polling indicates that Bernie's voters are more measured in their response and more willing to move to Hillary in the general, while Hillary's voters are intransigent and on a Quest of Destiny. .
Click to expand...

Source, please?

As I said, I hope for your sake he does win Iowa. Bernie's supporters are developing a God complex, and that doesn't tend to end well.

Handyman said:
Though Bernie is probably closer to a real woman than the Cyborg you worship so I guess I take it as a complement :p
Click to expand...

From the looks of it you've gotten close enough to Bernie to be able to tell! :eek: :D
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Until Bernie makes inroads among non-whites and moderates, I stand by my statement that he can win Iowa and New Hampshire and still lose 45 of the next 48 states.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

Rover said:
Source, please?
Click to expand...

For example, look at Support Strength here.

From the looks of it you've gotten close enough to Bernie to be able to tell!
Click to expand...

Yeah, except for the inconvenient fact that I'd change in a second if there was a more effective candidate with the same economic policy aspirations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top