Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

W was a far better campaigner than Rubio. He gave off a non-threatening vibe for indies while letting the corp/warmonger types that he was one of theirs. Rubio appeals to no one!

um
but rubio appeals to "the establishment".

i read it here (from peeps who are obviously IN the establishment . so it must be true)

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Dubya was no better. Hopefully we dodged a bullet, because having nothing in your head except what your advisers put there this morning is no bar to being elected.

Yes but you have to take context into account. Dubya had charisma and ran against a guy who made Nyquil look like speed (and who wasnt exactly someone the middle or the Progressives loved at the time) and had a name that was recognizable. (and he still barely won) Rubio will be running against candidates that can actually show emotion and he has zero charisma plus he has nothing in his record that shows he has an opinion on anything.

I get what you are saying, but it reminds me of the people who say QBs arent important in football cause Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Dubya was no better. Hopefully we dodged a bullet, because having nothing in your head except what your advisers put there this morning is no bar to being elected.

The ones who have nothing in their heads and also cannot remember what their advisers put there (e.g., Palin) are a lot more fun.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

um
but rubio appeals to "the establishment".

i read it here (from peeps who are obviously IN the establishment . so it must be true)

Rubio does appeal to certain GOP groups:

1a. Stiff, ancient, white country club farts who interpret Obama winning and the demographic changes as meaning their boy has to have "color," so they go out and find a Young Republican type who makes Tucker Carlson look edgy but who is Pantone 730 C, and assume all those dumb "coloreds" will flock to him (forgetting that Mexicans and Cubans hate each other).

1b. Same, swapping "color" out for "youth."

2. Born Agains who like that Rubio mentions TEH JEBUS every fifth breath, even though he's not as Gawd-fearing as that nice Mister Huckabee.

3. 1%ers who own him, oil him, and program him like a Battlebot for all functions above autonomic reflex.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

3. 1%ers who own him, oil him, and program him like a Battlebot for all functions above autonomic reflex.

less a Battlebot, perhaps, than a Roomba: cute and trendy and nice to own, but you need to remember to turn it off at night (and it costs money to keep recharging it) and you're always a little bit anxious that it might wreck something nice.
It seemed about right, after Iowa, when the guy on NPR said that Rubio's advisors congratulated him on trying his best, reassured him that the important thing is that everyone had fun, and buckled him into his car seat for the long ride to New Hampshire.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

I was not aware until today that Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat (he is not a registered member of the Democratic Party). This explains why the true-blue partisans can't stand him even though he's the most liberal candidate in the running. He is piggy-backing on the party infrastructure only to run for prez.
I like this guy more and more.
You could pretty much say the same for Trump and the Republicans. Wouldn't it be weird to not have an actual Democrat or Republican in the presidential race?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

less a Battlebot, perhaps, than a Roomba: cute and trendy and nice to own, but you need to remember to turn it off at night (and it costs money to keep recharging it) and you're always a little bit anxious that it might wreck something nice.

You're right; better analogy. Also there's this problem, which is directly analogous to what happens when you step in Republican ideology.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

This is a pretty funny attempt to whitewash Hillary. Can you pick the true ones? (I know Flag, for you it's all of them...)

Just for clarification: which of Hillary's misdeeds are you comparing to the Holocaust?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Trump's fan club is global.

Czech police say unknown attackers have set a refugee center on fire in the Czech capital of Prague, injuring one person.

Spokeswoman Iveta Martinkova says about 20 people attacked the Klinika center in Prague's No. 3 district with Molotov cocktails Saturday about 7:30 p.m. She says it's not clear who was behind the attack and police are investigating.

The attack took place just hours after thousands of people rallied in Prague against Muslims and immigration.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Just for clarification: which of Hillary's misdeeds are you comparing to the Holocaust?

Where have you gone, Northrop Frye?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

I was not aware until today that Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat (he is not a registered member of the Democratic Party). This explains why the true-blue partisans can't stand him even though he's the most liberal candidate in the running. He is piggy-backing on the party infrastructure only to run for prez.
I like this guy more and more.
You could pretty much say the same for Trump and the Republicans. Wouldn't it be weird to not have an actual Democrat or Republican in the presidential race?

Yeah he is a registered Independent but he usually caucuses with Democrats...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

I was not aware until today that Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat (he is not a registered member of the Democratic Party). This explains why the true-blue partisans can't stand him even though he's the most liberal candidate in the running. He is piggy-backing on the party infrastructure only to run for prez.

He also (obviously) caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate (and before, in the House). The Dems ran candidates against him as mayor and for a while in the House, but those Dems were utterly destroyed. Here's a fun example from the 1990 House election:

Bernie Sanders (I) – 117,522 (56%)
Peter Smith (R) – 82,938 (39.5%)
Dolores Sandoval (D) – 6,315 (3%)
Peter Diamondstone (LU) – 1,965 (0.9%)

The Dems eventually gave up and didn't field candidates against him knowing they'd be destroyed.

The party apparatchiks don't like him because of that and because the national party organization is divided between Clintonistas and a rump of Obama supporters, and neither group has much time for liberals. The national Dems have been controlled for 50 years by 2 groups: "Muskie Dems" from 68-90, then Clintonistas since then. The latter group is aging out but Obama did not build any organization to push policy after him. That's why it's so intriguing that Sanders is dominating among young Democrats. Even as Hillary captures the nomination, the organizational face of the Clintonistas is repugnant people like DWS.

The Democratic party is going to undergo a generational/ideological split similar to what happened when the GOP fractured in the 60s. Nixon was ostensibly in charge, but underneath all the energy and new blood was going to Movement Conservatives. Ten years from now, we might be talking about Movement Liberals hijacking the Democratic aparatus.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

She's getting angry (again)

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/hillary-clinton-staff-shakeup-218955

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Insiders said the problem remains her message. “The message is, she’s fighting. She’s fighting for you,” said one ally. “We have to drive that.”

And there's the discriminator between the two of them, and there is nothing she can do this late to change it. Stripped of everything else, everybody knows that Sanders is fighting for us while Hillary is fighting for herself.

She's got all the guns on her side and so she'll win, but I'm not sure how you pivot from that in the general. Maybe she'll luck out and draw Cruz or Trump.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Stripped of everything else, everybody knows that Sanders is fighting for us while Hillary is fighting for herself.

She's got all the guns on her side and so she'll win, but I'm not sure how you pivot from that in the general. Maybe she'll luck out and draw Cruz or Trump.

? How do we know Sanders isn't fighting for himself too? Important to remember Kep, not everybody's in the cult.

Also, how will she "luck out" with Cruz or Trump? I know you're still holding the torch for Jebbers! but regardless of whether the Dems nominate Hillary, Bernie, or LBJ's ghost its 90% probable that the GOP nominee will be Trump or Cruz.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

? How do we know Sanders isn't fighting for himself too?

It's not obvious? Bernie is the most un-self-conscious politician I've ever seen.

Also, how will she "luck out" with Cruz or Trump?

Also obvious, they're both un-electable in a national election. Hence the anxiety among "the establishment" that Jeb, Rubio, and Kasich have all hit the skids.

 

[walrus]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

. Hence the anxiety among "the establishment" that Jeb, Rubio, and Kasich have all hit the skids.

How are these guys any more electable. Holy god these guys are awful

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

? How do we know Sanders isn't fighting for himself too? Important to remember Kep, not everybody's in the cult.

IMO Sanders can be faulted for the practicality or efficacy of his message, but not its sincerity. I don't think you have to be in a cult to recognize that there are certain people who are committed to certain ideals. Grover Norquist sincerely believes in low taxes and Bernie Sanders sincerely believes in reducing inequality. At least one of these guys is wrong (at least across some subset domain), but both of these guys are sincere.

Is Hillary one of those Sincere Believers? Honestly, I think her main strength is that she isn't -- like Obama (or for that matter like FDR Himself) she is a pragmatist with no ideological moorings, and that can (as in the case of FDR) accomplish miracles.

I just think she has a heckuva optical problem, because on top of seeming insincere she also seems dishonest. Bill Clinton, for example, seemed both sincere and dishonest, and somehow his likability got him through it. She doesn't have that margin to play with because she is simply inherently not likable. That is why she has struggled so in both of these campaigns.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

How are these guys any more electable. Holy god these guys are awful

before the implosion, Rubio beat Hillary in head-to-head hypotheticals, where Cruz and Trump got pounded. (average of polls on realclearpolitics.com) Assuming Rubio is a cardboard cutout stand-in for "moderate establishment Republican."
edit: I see at the moment Cruz is actually up by a point on Hillary but Trump still trails her by a good bit.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - Primary season! Duck (questions) season!

Also obvious, they're both un-electable in a national election. Hence the anxiety among "the establishment" that Jeb, Rubio, and Kasich have all hit the skids.

Yeah, that's all I meant by lucked out. It wasn't a probability statement. I just worry if Hillary has to go against any establishment candidate. We've seen in the last 4 elections (maybe 6... hell, maybe 9) if the candidates align with their party's center the presidential election then becomes a popularity contest to appeal to lofo non-aligned voters who vote for personality, not policy. And under those circumstances, Hillary is at as big disadvantage as Al Gore.