Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

[bronconick]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Just how depressed are these guys going to be in 4 years when Hillary gets reelected cause the party does it all over again?

I thought they were going to fall back on a super delegate system for 2020, but I'm not sure that will do anything given the House infighting yesterday about what to do.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Let's hope "bloodbath" remains a metaphor. You could not have created better conditions for widespread political violence than the Echo Chamber and Hate Radio have done in working their brownshirts into a lather if you tried. Not to speak of the random actually unhinged types who dream of being "soldiers for Christ" or otherwise martyrs to The Cause.

The entire rightwing media circus should be served for inciting a riot.

What should make people even more nervous- tD once again basically came out and said- if he didn't win, the fix was in.

This was yesterday

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump warned his supporters Monday to keep a close eye on the polls so the "election is not stolen from us,"....

Trump told supporters at a rally in Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa., that he wanted every vote "counted 100 percent" on Nov. 8, adding that they had to be vigilant so the White House is "not taken away from us."

He repeated his claims that the "system is rigged," adding that there was "no way" he is down in the polls in Pennsylvania.

From Fox news http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...inton-claims-opponent-uses-chinese-steel.html

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Think about this...right now Hillary is the lesser of two evils FOR THE REPUBLICANS!

I literally laughed out loud.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Quit channeling Scooby.

Quit channeling Rover.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Question:

Will this Presidential election cycle finally break the two-party (uniparty?) system into something more parliamentary?


He may be a dead, slave-owning, white dude, but old GW (the original "gee-dub") saw it coming ...



FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796

I don't know about that. I said a while ago that any 3rd party had their chance in this election. No one had the financial backing to make a push and get their name out in front of Joe ands Jane Six Pack however. We'll vote R or D like always and then hate ourselves for 4 years. In 2020, 2016's losing side will play the "this would have never happens if you voted for us!" card and take that election.

It's the ebb and flow of American Politics and always has been. The Simpsons made this exact joke back in 1996 and it's 100% the truth.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Just how depressed are these guys going to be in 4 years when Hillary gets reelected cause the party does it all over again?

Well about a tenth of them will have "aged out."

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Only problem is George wrongly thinks Trump will cure the problem. In fact, Trump will not cure the problem. Why? Cause they'll blame Trump for what happened and do the whole shebang over again next time with someone like Cruz.

Cruz endorsed Drumpf...he tanked himself. In 4 years that will be the litmus test if you are right.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

I predict that Trump may do the unthinkable: break the 40-40-20 paradigm. I could see Trump getting <40% of the popular vote.

Gary "Allepo? World leader?" Johnson is back looking more Presidential. Ponder that for a moment.

One of my Fb friends that feels the Johnson posted something from Johnson pushing in Colorado, Alaska, New Mexico and Utah to break the 48 year steak of no 3rd party electoral votes.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Well about a tenth of them will have "aged out."

we wish....

 

[Jimjamesak]

One of my Fb friends that feels the Johnson posted something from Johnson pushing in Colorado, Alaska, New Mexico and Utah to break the 48 year steak of no 3rd party electoral votes.

Lol, if he pushes in Alaska he'll hand Hillary 3 more EV.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Quit channeling Rover.

Clearly I'm not: I didn't instigate an ad hominem attack against someone with a differing POV.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

In 2020, 2016's losing side will play the "this would have never happens if you voted for us!" card and take that election.

It's the ebb and flow of American Politics and always has been. The Simpsons made this exact joke back in 1996 and it's 100% the truth.

Honestly, I've had that sense for a while. Obama feels like his side's Reagan. Although not the Reagan Veep, HRC feels like Obama's Bush. (Wait ... that sounded bad.)

Anyway, we know what happened to Bush 41. One. And. Done.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Cruz endorsed Drumpf...he tanked himself. In 4 years that will be the litmus test if you are right.

Oh, I know it's not going to be Cruz. The facts are they have never nominated a Tea Party equivalent. They've had two of them on the ticket (Palin and Pence) but never one at the top of the ticket. Until that happens and it fails they will continue to go down this misogynist, racist, xenophobic bend.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Anyway, we know what happened to Bush 41. One. And. Done.

I see what you did there.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

I don't know about that. I said a while ago that any 3rd party had their chance in this election. No one had the financial backing to make a push and get their name out in front of Joe ands Jane Six Pack however. We'll vote R or D like always and then hate ourselves for 4 years. In 2020, 2016's losing side will play the "this would have never happens if you voted for us!" card and take that election.

It's the ebb and flow of American Politics and always has been. The Simpsons made this exact joke back in 1996 and it's 100% the truth.

The problems with the 3rd and 4th party are their policies. And then both of their personal gaffes during this election.

If there was a moderate Republican that was left of where R is now, but still right of Democrats- I would have given them a real chance. More of a Whig Party than the current Libertarian. With the distrust of the Clinton name, Whigs would probably have taken this election- and very splintered what the current Republican party is.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Anyway, we know what happened to Bush 41. One. And. Done.

Won't happen. You don't have a Clinton on the GOP side to run next time and you don't have a Perot to pull a third party bid to get your Clinton elected.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Won't happen. You don't have a Clinton on the GOP side to run next time and you don't have a Perot to pull a third party bid to get your Clinton elected.

For once I agree with Scoobs, 1992 was a funky election that doesn't bear much to the future. Unless Hillary completely tanks during the first term I don't see anybody left of her running against her.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

The problems with the 3rd and 4th party are their policies. And then both of their personal gaffes during this election.

If there was a moderate Republican that was left of where R is now, but still right of Democrats- I would have given them a real chance. More of a Whig Party than the current Libertarian. With the distrust of the Clinton name, Whigs would probably have taken this election- and very splintered what the current Republican party is.

Given the NRA's love affair with Hamilton, they can revive the Federalist party. Again, policies that many R's are very for, but not the hateful ones we are seeing rise up in the current R.

For the left of D's- the Socialist party should come back for them. It had been around for a long time.

For that matter, I'm not sure why a real Progressive party has not gotten more traction.

This was the election to bring out the real alternatives. Realistically, once the new year rolled in, the realistic writing was on the wall- tD had his momentum, Clinton was going to likely win. With all they said and did, any of the historic parties that were good alternatives, but not too extreme, could have gotten a LOT of traction this year.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Of course one of the big reasons for any uncertainty is that, now that the Republicans actually DID nominate someone who can and should be compared to Hitler, nobody takes the warnings seriously any more. People treat it like it's a big reality TV game show or something. Donald Trump in contention for the U.S. presidency shouldn't even be the punchline to a bad joke.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Question:

Will this Presidential election cycle finally break the two-party (uniparty?) system into something more parliamentary?

Let's explore what the minimum changes to the current situation would be needed to get this done.

At minimum, the bolded language in the 12th Amendment has to go:

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

Unless that changes, 3+ strong parties effectively nullifies popular election of the president, since the House will decide every election.

Now, we could do that -- that is after all how a Prime Minister is chosen. But then the checks and balances are destroyed since the executive is directly elected by the legislative branch. I'm a Montesquieu Man myself -- I want to preserve checks and balances.

So, what if the 28th Amendment deletes the bolded text from the 12th Amendment and specifies a clean first-past-the-post system: the candidate with a plurality of Electoral votes (I keep the Electoral College because I'm trying to find the minimal change required) is elected President. And let's say the GOP spins off a Trump national front-style UKIP party (USIP) and say this becomes not just a vanity project but a fully functional political party and in the 2020 elections we get the following results:

President:

.39 Clinton (D)
.33 Trump (U)
.28 Ryan (R)

Senate:

40 D
33 R
27 U

(assume the House breaks down like the Senate for simplicity).

There are two possible practical coalitions in Congress: D-R to continue current establishment interests or R-U to continue anti-Democratic gridlock.

Yes, I think that system might be viable, or at least no more fraught with problems than our current configuration. The interesting thing about a 3 major party configuration is it basically kills cloture obstructionism. 4+ major parties brings it back with a vengeance.

It... could... work!