Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Not if the comparison is Hitler '32. We aren't precogs so we have to wipe away everything Hitler did post-1932 to make him into HITLER!!111! Do so and Trump fits neatly into the Hitler box: hyper-militarist running on demonizing The Other, making Germany, er, America Great Again, cult of personality, incitement of violence from his supporters, out of control narcissism, isolated in a self-deluded bubble with only yes men around him... it's a fair cop.

But if you still cling to the notion that in 1932 everything Hitler became was present in his words and there is no analogy to Trump, fine, I'll downgrade to Mussolini.

That's quite bad enough.

By '32 Hitler had already written hundreds of pages about his plan to exterminate certain groups of people, and once he got in power he followed through on his plans. Ignoring the fact that Trump is likely incapable of writing his thoughts out in anything longer than 140 character screeds, his rants differ little from those of thousands, if not tens of thousands of others in this country and around the world, spouting racist or anti-immigration rhetoric. If you can point me to his writings that call for the extermination of certain races or classes of people, or putting the sick or infirm out of their misery as a favor to them, I'll admit I was wrong.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

If you can point me to his writings that call for the extermination of certain races or classes of people, or putting the sick or infirm out of their misery as a favor to them, I'll admit I was wrong.

Hey, there's still 4 weeks to go before election day!

 

[bronconick]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Its the difference between word and deed, Kep. Jefferson may have been pro-liberty but it didn't stop him from keeping slaves for example. My point was simple. The same Founders who wrote the Constitution also gave us political parties. Frankly I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Its who's running them that's the problem.

"In the 32-page handwritten address, Washington urged Americans to avoid excessive political party spirit and geographical distinctions"

It was Washington, not the Founders as a whole that warned against political parties.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

It's pronounced 'Gina.

You misspelled: Jhina

 

[joecct]

"In the 32-page handwritten address, Washington urged Americans to avoid excessive political party spirit and geographical distinctions"

It was Washington, not the Founders as a whole that warned against political parties.

Don't forget Ike's farewell address, either.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win - I will teach them!

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Paul Ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget, jobs and illegal immigration and not waste his time on fighting Republican nominee

And here...we...GO!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

It was Washington, not the Founders as a whole that warned against political parties.

Also Jay, Hamilton and most famously Madison in the FP.

I also have to correct Rover's statement that the Founders gave us "parties." At most, the Founders coalesced into temporary factions that revolved around particular issues, and which were not permanent. For example, Federalist Hamilton endorsed hated opponent Democratic-Republican Jefferson over fellow Federalist Burr.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win - I will teach them!

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Paul Ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget, jobs and illegal immigration and not waste his time on fighting Republican nominee

And here...we...GO!

All we need now is someone to come out and tell us how this will be GOOD for the GOP this election.

I personally have never witnessed an intra-party civil war like this. I do recall in '96 Gingrich telling his people to save themselves and not Dole, but the difference then was 1) he was telling them to run on a 'check against Bill Clinton' platform, not 'our own nominee is nuts', and 2) even though is candidacy was doomed Dole retained positive favorability amongst the electorate and was okay with Gingrich's plan as he could see the writing on the wall. Its a shame he's humiliated himself with his support of Trump this late in his life.

But the problem remains. Most Republican voters are Trump worshipers. None of these people, Ayotte, McCain, Rubio or even Portman, can win re-election without overwhelming support from The Trumpsters. We could have the perverse effect of voters coming out not to save the down ballot Goopers, but to just vote for Trump and stick it to the Republicans who abandoned him. Angry and vindictive Trump voters don't give a rat's arse about saving Paul Ryan's job. But, they're the majority of the people who would normally be supporting House and Senate Republicans.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Also Jay, Hamilton and most famously Madison in the FP.

I also have to correct Rover's statement that the Founders gave us "parties." At most, the Founders coalesced into temporary factions that revolved around particular issues, and which were not permanent. For example, Federalist Hamilton endorsed hated opponent Democratic-Republican Jefferson over fellow Federalist Burr.

Sorry but that is not backed up by the facts Kep. John Adams and Jefferson didnt speak for years because of the divide due to their beliefs. They may have talked about not wanting parties, but the second they needed one they jumped in head first and never looked back. The Founders were acting like normal politicians "say one thing and do another".

The Federalist Papers were great and the writers had lots of wisdom, and they sold it out when they needed to to get what they wanted.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Also Jay, Hamilton and most famously Madison in the FP.

I also have to correct Rover's statement that the Founders gave us "parties." At most, the Founders coalesced into temporary factions that revolved around particular issues, and which were not permanent. For example, Federalist Hamilton endorsed hated opponent Democratic-Republican Jefferson over fellow Federalist Burr.

And George H W Bush endorsed (or will vote for) Clinton. This is a weak point. The Founding Fathers were the first people to form political parties. This is a fact, not an opinion. Whether they meant this to be a permanent set up or a temporary one is unknown, but they did it. Its not any more complicated than that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win - I will teach them!

Donald J. TrumpVerified account
‏@realDonaldTrump
Paul Ryan should spend more time on balancing the budget, jobs and illegal immigration and not waste his time on fighting Republican nominee

And here...we...GO!

Are we sure those are real? I mean yeah with Trump who knows, but... wow. He can do a lot more damage in 28 days if he turns his people loose on GOP officials. What if that 25% or so of the electorate who are completely brainwashed by Trump are told not to pull the lever for any Republican who refuses to endorse their furious fuhrer? Forget the Senate, let's talk about the House!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

All we need now is someone to come out and tell us how this will be GOOD for the GOP this election.

I personally have never witnessed an intra-party civil war like this. I do recall in '96 Gingrich telling his people to save themselves and not Dole, but the difference then was 1) he was telling them to run on a 'check against Bill Clinton' platform, not 'our own nominee is nuts', and 2) even though is candidacy was doomed Dole retained positive favorability amongst the electorate and was okay with Gingrich's plan as he could see the writing on the wall. Its a shame he's humiliated himself with his support of Trump this late in his life.

But the problem remains. Most Republican voters are Trump worshipers. None of these people, Ayotte, McCain, Rubio or even Portman, can win re-election without overwhelming support from The Trumpsters. We could have the perverse effect of voters coming out not to save the down ballot Goopers, but to just vote for Trump and stick it to the Republicans who abandoned him. Angry and vindictive Trump voters don't give a rat's arse about saving Paul Ryan's job. But, they're the majority of the people who would normally be supporting House and Senate Republicans.

I would think Truman after he went against the South to start Civil Rights...same with Johnson. Even those though would not have been this bad.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

Are we sure those are real? I mean yeah with Trump who knows, but... wow. He can do a lot more damage in 28 days if he turns his people loose on GOP officials. What if that 25% or so of the electorate who are completely brainwashed by Trump are told not to pull the lever for any Republican who refuses to endorse their furious fuhrer?

I copy and pasted those off his verified twitter account.

Read For Yourself

WaPo is Reporting It

Wall Street Journal Article on Drumpf Getting Free

This is awesome! I said this would happen back in June but I never thought it would be this awesome!!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

But the problem remains. Most Republican voters are Trump worshipers. None of these people, Ayotte, McCain, Rubio or even Portman, can win re-election without overwhelming support from The Trumpsters. We could have the perverse effect of voters coming out not to save the down ballot Goopers, but to just vote for Trump and stick it to the Republicans who abandoned him. Angry and vindictive Trump voters don't give a rat's arse about saving Paul Ryan's job. But, they're the majority of the people who would normally be supporting House and Senate Republicans.

This is the other shoe dropping. Remember back around Christmas when movement conservatives started to catch on that all those votes they had gotten in the 90s and 00s had zero to do with political principles and everything to do with cultural reaction? That broke their hearts, but the larger party said "fine, whatever, slap an 'R' on it and we own him." That was a miscalculation, because he now owns them. Trump can persuasively go to Ryan and McConnell and Priebus and give them an ultimatum: start supporting me again or I will destroy you."

And if there's one guy on Earth who we can all see doing that...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

I copy and pasted those off his verified twitter account.

So Twitter has a way of actually verifying? (Sorry, I literally only bought my first smart phone two weeks ago.)

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

This is the other shoe dropping. Remember back around Christmas when movement conservatives started to catch on that all those votes they had gotten in the 90s and 00s had zero to do with political principles and everything to do with cultural reaction? That broke their hearts, but the larger party said "fine, whatever, slap an 'R' on it and we own him." That was a miscalculation, because he now owns them. Trump can persuasively go to Ryan and McConnell and Priebus and give them an ultimatum: start supporting me again or I will destroy you."

And if there's one guy on Earth who we can all see doing that...

He's already done that, right down to his campaign manager saying she was going to expose incidents of sexual harassment by GOP Congressmen.

McConnell doesn't care. This is his last term I'm sure and he'll throw in the towel once its done. Priebus is out of a job after election day regardless. As mookie insinuated, I can easily see Trump voters burning the whole thing down and toppling McCain, Ayotte, and anybody else not deemed sufficiently pro-Trump so that their people are the only ones left. If Paul Ryan is now enemy #1, the best form of payback is to not vote for the Congresscritters keeping him as Speaker. They're not going to vote Dem, but if they don't vote downballot at all (except if its for a pro-Trump nutter) that will have the same effect.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

So Twitter has a way of actually verifying? (Sorry, I literally only bought my first smart phone two weeks ago.)

Yes public figures have their accounts verified to prevent people from starting accounts in their name and tweeting stuff. Verified

Everything Drumpf has tweeted that has been used by the media during this cycle has come from this account. Those late night tweets...this account. This begging for money...this account. This is him, unfiltered!

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

One of these things is not like the others:

WSJ (2 person race): Clinton +14
Atlantic: Clinton +11
WSJ (4): Clinton +11
NBC (2): Clinton +7
Rasmussen (2): Clinton +7
Economist (4): Clinton +6
Quinnipiac (2): Clinton +6
Economist (2): Clinton +5
NBC (4): Clinton +5
Quinnipiac (4): Clinton +5
Rasmussen (4): Clinton +5
FNC (2): Clinton +4
FNC (4): Clinton +2
LA Times: Trump +2

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

He's already done that, right down to his campaign manager saying she was going to expose incidents of sexual harassment by GOP Congressmen.

Jesus.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XXI: Do you love farce? My fault, I fear.

This is the other shoe dropping. Remember back around Christmas when movement conservatives started to catch on that all those votes they had gotten in the 90s and 00s had zero to do with political principles and everything to do with cultural reaction? That broke their hearts, but the larger party said "fine, whatever, slap an 'R' on it and we own him." That was a miscalculation, because he now owns them. Trump can persuasively go to Ryan and McConnell and Priebus and give them an ultimatum: start supporting me again or I will destroy you."

And if there's one guy on Earth who we can all see doing that...

Except he tried that and it didnt work. Sure Rance Himmler took the bair but remember after he clinched he went to the Senate and House and said "support me or else"? Remember what happened...they told him to get bent. They knew then he would do nothing but drag them down.