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Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And normally I would sit it out and let the chips fall but I cant do it this time. This isnt a "Left/Right" thing this is way different. Drumpf is incompetent and narcissistic with a big ole helping of corrupt thrown in (with an added dash of fascism for taste) and I cannot abide that man being president I dont care how much I hate the system. You dont blow up your car cause the radio doesnt work, you dont shoot your wife because she didnt clean the dishes and you dont screw 300 million people (plus the rest of the world) just because you hate Hillary Clinton.

Thank you. I don't have to make the argument anymore, this is what I've been trying to say. I'm just going to link back to this post over and over and over again until election day.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Someone in his campaign was able to convince him to read off the GD teleprompter instead of just egg-belching his way through a speech, and while it's helped avoid the more egregious stupidity we all saw early on, he's clearly bored to death with it. Dude's a narcissist; he loves adulation, THRIVES on it. He got the big cheering crowds by being a total butthole, so he still wants to do that.

Is "egg-belching" a thing?

Edit: oh God. Yes, it is.

The Cafe. Always educational.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

what's up with msnbc killing the hilly mouthpiece?!?!? :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

If you'd paid attention at all you'd know I'm not six, I'm not an idiot and I'm not voting for Trump.

And yet, you're on here defending him and the mindset that supports him constantly. With all the critical thinking and emotional depth of a six year old.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

This is good. I also want no illegal immigrants. I don't mind immigrants. I want them to come to this country legally and contribute to society.

you do realize most illegal immigrants come here legally, contribute to society, but they just overstay their visa?

illegal immigration is not nearly the problem you've been brainwashed to think it is
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

you do realize most illegal immigrants come here legally, contribute to society, but they just overstay their visa?

illegal immigration is not nearly the problem you've been brainwashed to think it is

It's a powerful image, though. I saw bumper sticker on a truck today: "THE WALL IS GONNA BE YUUUGE." He really struck a chord there -- I will keep them out.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And until we start instituting severe penalties for those companies that hire illegal immigrants, we'll never be able to begin making a dent in the problem. Those immigrants wouldn't be coming here if they couldn't get work.

But we can't do that, cause that's biting the hand that feeds the politicians. Easier to demonize an entire ethnicity.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Thank you. I don't have to make the argument anymore, this is what I've been trying to say. I'm just going to link back to this post over and over and over again until election day.

I cant sit back on my principles not when that much is at stake.

And here is the thing, I am not Scooby I dont Chicken Little this stuff. I dont assume every GOP President is going to destroy the world and every Dem will tax us into the poor house. Yet everything we have seen and heard points to Drumpf being dangerous and letting that guy run wild is not a good idea. The GOP Congress wont be a check to him either, nor will the Court and we have all seen this movie before...

I am sure I sound like a paranoid freak, but at this point I dont care. I couldnt live with myself if I didnt try and stop this from coming to be...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

That's on your employer. My cost for my low deductible family plan hasn't gone up in 8-9 years (and it only had one small increase before that, I've been on the plan 11 years). Instead my employer implemented a wellness program to encourage healthy behavior and they covered whatever increases there were.

And if Obamacare didn't happen, my employer wouldn't have had to change the rates, would they?


And as far as the illegal immigrants, yes, bust those companies. And if the illegals are that way because they overstayed their visa, bust them, too. Again, "illegal" means "against the law."

Edit: I'd allow a grace period due to paperwork/etc on the visas. Especially considering we're talking about the government.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And if Obamacare didn't happen, my employer wouldn't have had to change the rates, would they?

why do you think that? Healthcare costs were going up with our without Obamacare. It is quite possible they would have gone up more over the last 8 years without Obamacare.

It's interesting my employer was able to maintain the same premium for it's ~2000 employees for the past 8 years.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Or, people underestimated the number of voters angry enough to use their vote to "flip the bird" at what they view as the power centers of the country. A vote for Trump is a giant eff you, and the more hysterical everyone becomes at his prospects, the better the vote feels.

This describes how I voted in 2004 to a tee (other than who I was flipping the bird to). I've since become a grown up.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

You seem to be arguing that those of us who are trying to warn, while we may be sincere, are too cognitively biased by our partisanship to see that we are overestimating the danger.

I had the fear in 2008 --> The junior Senator from IL with a grand total of two years in national politics as President? A man with no discernible track record (voting "present") even from his IL Legislature days? A man where the greatest line item on a resume is "community organizer", that the most we know about him is from two autobiographies? A man where the media was more interested in his "cool", his rock star image, than vetting the man and what he thinks, and they admit it.

Now, eight years later, hey, the country is still here. I still don't like a lot of his policy or politics, but the country is still here.

I am not equivocating Obama to Trump. Not at all. What I am saying is the hyperbolic rhetoric, yeah, I've heard that before from the other direction. So yes, I've heard this melody before (with different lyrics). Forgive me if I've become somewhat tone deaf.

The way to fix politics is to lose the hyperbolic rhetoric and focus on simple, fact and policy based why or why not.

That said, I won't, can't, vote for Trump simply on the basis that his most recently stated policy plans can not be paid for (data per TaxFoundation.org).
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And as far as the illegal immigrants, yes, bust those companies. And if the illegals are that way because they overstayed their visa, bust them, too. Again, "illegal" means "against the law."

Obama has deported more people than any other president in history. Yet the republicans are like "OMG!!! THE ILLEGALS ARE TAKING YOUR JOBS AND RAPING YOUR WIVES". Any realistic immigration reform is going to have to have some component of amnesty for those already here, but the tea baggers won't let that happen now despite the fact that republicans used to be open to it (Saint Reagan granted amnesty to millions). Pay a fine, get a new visa, and get put in the back of the line for citizenship. Once you take care of those already here, reform the current immigration system. It's not economically feasible to deport them all, especially the ones with citizen children.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

I guess president of the Harvard Law Review and 12 years as a law school professor are both inferior positions to "community organizer". Not to mention state and US senator.

But keep regurgitating the right-wing Kool aid.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And if Obamacare didn't happen, my employer wouldn't have had to change the rates, would they?

And as far as the illegal immigrants, yes, bust those companies. And if the illegals are that way because they overstayed their visa, bust them, too. Again, "illegal" means "against the law."

Years ago, prior to passage of the ACA, I served on the board of a local, critical access hospital. As part of my training, I attended a medical conference put on by the Estes Park Institute. This conference was highly regarded in the industry, and the attendees were about 40% physicians with the balance consisting of Administrators and Trustees. A conservative bunch, nearly all of whom had profited greatly from the existing system. At the four-day conference I attended, the overwhelming message was that the health care delivery and financing system in our country was going to change because it had to change, whether the medical industry wanted it to or not. Costs were rising at 7% or more per year, and people's deductibles were rising in response. Medical tourism (people being flown to other countries for surgical procedures and recovery) was on the rise because medical care in this country was becoming less and less competitive with providers in other countries who could provide the same level of care. These were not politicians saying this. These were people who had every reason to continue the status quo. Yet they were saying change was coming whether medical providers liked it or not and that medical institutions better be prepared for change.

Maybe Obama could have come up with a better system. Perhaps the Romney plan was better or should have been adopted in larger part. But it is a convenient fantasy to hold on to the belief that change was not coming or that the "old system" could have been left alone to everyone's benefit.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Years ago, prior to passage of the ACA, I served on the board of a local, critical access hospital. As part of my training, I attended a medical conference put on by the Estes Park Institute. This conference was highly regarded in the industry, and the attendees were about 40% physicians with the balance consisting of Administrators and Trustees. A conservative bunch, nearly all of whom had profited greatly from the existing system. At the four-day conference I attended, the overwhelming message was that the health care delivery and financing system in our country was going to change because it had to change, whether the medical industry wanted it to or not. Costs were rising at 7% or more per year, and people's deductibles were rising in response. Medical tourism (people being flown to other countries for surgical procedures and recovery) was on the rise because medical care in this country was becoming less and less competitive with providers in other countries who could provide the same level of care. These were not politicians saying this. These were people who had every reason to continue the status quo. Yet they were saying change was coming whether medical providers liked it or not and that medical institutions better be prepared for change.

Maybe Obama could have come up with a better system. Perhaps the Romney plan was better or should have been adopted in larger part. But it is a convenient fantasy to hold on to the belief that change was not coming or that the "old system" could have been left alone to everyone's benefit.

This.

The great failure of Obamacare in my mind is the lack of oversight. Congress has spent 100% of its time on repeal, and 0% of it's time on reform. You can blame the Republicans for that.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

I guess president of the Harvard Law Review and 12 years as a law school professor are both inferior positions to "community organizer". Not to mention state and US senator.

I've run a collegiate classroom for longer than 12 years; that's not as important as the community organizer, honestly. (After about 5 it becomes rote.)

And I acknowledged his two years as the junior Senator from IL.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And yet, you're on here defending him and the mindset that supports him constantly. With all the critical thinking and emotional depth of a six year old.
Really, because I'd be hard-pressed to think of an instance where I actually defended Donald Trump, here or anywhere else. I think the closest I came was awhile back when he made the snarky comment about the Russian hackers of the DNC emails, telling them that while they were in there they should look for HRC's missing emails. When everyone went gaga claiming Trump was calling on a foreign power to hack HRC, I called it for what it was -- a stupid, snarky comment.

I have come here and defended Trump's supporters, but I don't think that's the same thing. I've tried to explain my thoughts/theories as to why they think or feel the way they do, and argued against the common perception that they are uneducated, racist hicks who have let themselves be led astray by Fox News and the right wing blogosphere. I've done this not out of love or support for Trump, but because I know many people who do support him. Very good people. Individuals who are highly educated and very successful. People who have raised great children. People who haven't thought twice about hiring minorities. People who give up their weekends to build homes with Habitat for Humanity.

When they've told me there is simply no way they can vote for Clinton and they're going to vote for Trump, I haven't tried to belittle them. I haven't accused them of supporting a racist (and the implied racist charge that goes with that accusation). I just listen to their reasons and try to understand.

I've posted here before I have no intention of voting for Trump. I think he's an azzclown. I have no intention of voting for Clinton either. I've made my peace with the fact that I will vote for Johnson/Weld. It is a protest vote, which I normally would avoid. But when both parties are heading in the wrong direction, I think it is an acceptable decision. It is also founded in faith in the Republic. I'm not going to get hysterical about either a Clinton or a Trump presidency, as some have chosen to do. We'll survive. Toronto has survived Rob Ford. Maine has survived Paul Le Page. We'll survive regardless who wins in November.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

"We will survive" isnt good enough I am sorry. A Drumpf Presidency will make the 8 years of Dubya look like the Golden Age. Christ the economy alone will go to crap. And I am not going to risk the things I care about because the Republic will survive. Proving a point isnt worth the grief...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

538 is approaching full panic:

Dave Rothschild @DavMacRiot: "Something wrong with @FiveThirtyEight forecast. If you enjoy roller-coasters, please jump on, otherwise, follow https://t.co/iVgKTSRLoR

Nate Silver @NateSilver538:Never seen otherwise-smart people in so much denial about something as they are about Trump's chances. Same mistake as primaries, Brexit.

To put it another way, the burden of proof should be on people who DON'T show a competitive race, because that requires MORE assumptions.

Instead, there are a lot of *implicit* and *unexamined* assumptions that the race will shift back to Clinton. That's dangerous.
 
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