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Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

SJHovey said:
The most condensed summary is "the political establishment." We saw it first in the Republican race, and many of you here got a good chuckle out of it because it wasn't your ox getting gored. Welcome to the party.
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Well no offense but then those people are *** morons and arent worth the oxygen they breathe. I am all for giving the finger to the establishment (remember I am a Bernie guy) but I am not going to set my condo on fire just because I find the property company makes stupid decisions and charges too much. Electing Drumpf because you hate the current system is like firing an incompetent worker because he is always on Facebook and hiring someone with a history of stealing because he doesnt have a Facebook account. The solution is worse than the original problem...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Handyman said:
Well no offense but then those people are *** morons and arent worth the oxygen they breathe.
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I swear I read the same about eight years ago about a group voting for a candidate. But it was coming from the other side of the aisle.

@SJHovey: The intro of that book seems to describe things right now all too well:

According to a 2014 Pew study of over 10,000 Americans, the most politically engaged on each side see those in the “other party” not just as wrong, but as “so misguided that they threaten the nation’s well-being”.
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
I swear I read the same about eight years ago about a group voting for a candidate. But it was coming from the other side of the aisle.

@SJHovey: The intro of that book seems to describe things right now all too well:
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Yes voting for Obama is the same as voting for Drumpf...you drinking?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
Why? Too much of a Stuart Smalley vibe to it?
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No, I've made my peace with Hillary's popularity or lack thereof. After all, as much of a problem as it is for her, Trump has nearly identical numbers.

What worries me is the possibility that this memo is real, and the campaign is oblivious to what has been happening and could happen. Even a passing acquaintance with the quantitative methodology underlying polling refutes or renders irrelevant the gist of the memo. It does not matter if Trump's path to victory is more narrow if Trump is on pace to thread it, and that is nearly where he is.

What is needed is a well-defined plan to open many fronts and leverage Hillary's significant field and data advantages. But that isn't what I take from that memo.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

The Sicatoka said:
No, and no, but the hyperbolic rhetoric still has a familiar echo.
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This is false equivalence. Yes, there were people who said Obama would endanger the country. Those people are insane (or more likely just cynics using rhetoric to their partisan advantage). No doubt there were people who said the same about McCain and Romney, and they were crazy too.

Trump is different, for reasons which I have tried to lay out before. Plenty of other commentators have tried to do the same. Some of these are conservatives and Republicans. That alone should alert you to the possibility that this really is a special case.

I'm not really sure how to convince you. Perhaps Trump has already been normalized to the point that people just do not see the danger and the betrayal of our tradition of republican institutions.

You seem to be arguing that those of us who are trying to warn, while we may be sincere, are too cognitively biased by our partisanship to see that we are overestimating the danger. That logic cuts the other way too: by your own argument you may be too cognitively biased by your partisanship to see that you are underestimating the danger.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

SJHovey said:
The most condensed summary is "the political establishment." We saw it first in the Republican race, and many of you here got a good chuckle out of it because it wasn't your ox getting gored. Welcome to the party.
Click to expand...

So you idiots would gladly and willingly vote for a corrupt and incompetent moron just to shoot the finger at the political establishment? What are you, six?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Kepler said:
This does not give me confidence.
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Yeah, she really knows what she's doing. :rolleyes:

In fact, she's currently running one of the more ineffective campaigns I've seen, given who she is up against.

I tried to explain away the coughing fits and the pneumonia induced fainting, and have always chalked up the Clinton health crap as just that, crap. But right now even I'm beginning to wonder.
Is this why she made fewer public campaign events in August and spent more time in private, expensive fund raising events? The optics of her comments after the bombings on Saturday looked awful. She was haggard, drawn and her voice was missing most of its shrillness, meaning it was weak. More cancelled events today?

The supposed memo on the Daily Kos link is bizarre. That kind of bravado in the face of what anyone with an open eye can see is odd, to say the least. Usually even if you know you have nothing to worry about you craft the message about how it's a 50/50 fight and work your hardest to get your voters to the polls. Lou Holtz was famous for speaking of Rice or Navy (when we used to be able to beat teams like that regularly) as if they had 85 Heisman Trophy candidates suited up, when everyone knew the final score was likely to be 56-7.

If she and Bill would only unleash that famous Clinton machine I've read wondrously scary things about...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

rufus said:
So you idiots would gladly and willingly vote for a corrupt and incompetent moron just to shoot the finger at the political establishment? What are you, six?
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Welcome to most of the last few elections. ;)

Handy, for what it's worth, has pretty much nailed it. Hillary is beyond crappy. And Trump is a million times worse. Welcome to American politics. We'll elect someone who's simply less bad than their opponent.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

rufus said:
So you idiots would gladly and willingly vote for a corrupt and incompetent moron just to shoot the finger at the political establishment? What are you, six?
Click to expand...

If it were just a vote against the establishment I might follow--I have voted SCOTUS that way in the past. But forget about what the dems have said about Trump or the manner in which they have characterized his past or his actions. What I have seen him say he will do at his own events I find abhorrent, contrary to our constitution, and shockingly childish. I was old enough to get involved in the anger, excitement and fear of the late 60s. I get that people get fed up and want something different, but why do you suppose not a single poster here has come forward to declare he or she will vote for Trump. Many of them want change too, but they know what they see.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

And normally I would sit it out and let the chips fall but I cant do it this time. This isnt a "Left/Right" thing this is way different. Drumpf is incompetent and narcissistic with a big ole helping of corrupt thrown in (with an added dash of fascism for taste) and I cannot abide that man being president I dont care how much I hate the system. You dont blow up your car cause the radio doesnt work, you dont shoot your wife because she didnt clean the dishes and you dont screw 300 million people (plus the rest of the world) just because you hate Hillary Clinton.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Brenthoven said:
Welcome to most of the last few elections. ;)
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Which of the last few elections were between corrupt or incompetent morons? Obama? Romney? Bush? Palin was unquestionably incompetent but she was VP candidate. McCain?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

burd said:
If it were just a vote against the establishment I might follow--I have voted SCOTUS that way in the past. But forget about what the dems have said about Trump or the manner in which they have characterized his past or his actions. What I have seen him say he will do at his own events I find abhorrent, contrary to our constitution, and shockingly childish. I was old enough to get involved in the anger, excitement and fear of the late 60s. I get that people get fed up and want something different, but why do you suppose not a single poster here has come forward to declare he or she will vote for Trump. Many of them want change too, but they know what they see.
Click to expand...

I think that is also part of the problem with the polls. I think a lot of pollsters have no idea how to identify a lot of people. Normally anyone with a history of voting Dem or GOP would automatically be put in that way but this year is something completely different.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Brenthoven said:
Welcome to most of the last few elections. ;)

Handy, for what it's worth, has pretty much nailed it. Hillary is beyond crappy. And Trump is a million times worse. Welcome to American politics. We'll elect someone who's simply less bad than their opponent.
Click to expand...

When our economy craters enough to make the great recession of 2008-2009 (or really 2007-2011) look like the recession that cost HW Bush his job, you know the one that was so mild it was actually over before Bill Clinton even announced he was running, I hope everyone that did not vote for Clinton is happy that they didn't just vote for someone who is less bad than their opponent. Obama was less bad than McCain or Romney. Hell, maybe it was the other way around. Clinton will/would be an ineffective president. Trump is going to damage this nation (and the world probably) in ways we have not seen since the times of Pierce and Buchanan. The worst part is we won't have an Abraham Lincoln to set the nation on a righteous path in the aftermath.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Obama was neither corrupt nor incompetent (as far as politicians go). He just made decisions I disagreed with. Clinton (Bill), and W were corrupt, in different ways. Romney and McCain (and throw W in there at times, unfortunately crucial times) were incompetent. Gore was also incompetent. I always thought he'd make for a better "background" guy in the upper echelons of government, despite my differences with him.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

burd said:
Which of the last few elections were between corrupt or incompetent morons? Obama? Romney? Bush? Palin was unquestionably incompetent but she was VP candidate. McCain?
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Dubya is pretty incompetent, and Cheney (the man who actually ran the country) is as corrupt as they come.

McCain is corrupt from years of being lobbied. Palin is a dumb c*nt.

Romney is a fundamentally decent guy who has spent too much time in the ivory tower and has terrible ideas. Ryan is a corrupt weasel.

Obama has fallen victim to lobbyist corruption over the years. Biden is the blue McCain - they ARE the machine.
 
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