Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Well, they would if Scalia and four others hadn't blocked it just days before Scalia went to the happy hunting grounds.

He must've gotten a helluva surprise about God when she turned out to be black.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

He must've gotten a helluva surprise about God when she turned out to be black.

Condi?

 

[unofan]

Uh, no. The EPA wrote the CPP. Congress never passed it. EPA enforces it under the power of law*,**. But how do we have law not passed by Congress?

Remember:
EPA is Executive, not Legislative, branch.
To Scoob's point, here is where Congress is delinquent on its check-and-balance oversight.


*Well, they would if Scalia and four others hadn't blocked it just days before Scalia went to the happy hunting grounds.
**Is that why EPA needs guns and SWAT teams?

The EPA can only act within its statutory authority. If it enacts a plan that is upheld by a court after being challenged, then that means Congress gave it the authority to do whatever it was that it did.

If Congress wrote its enabling statute in a manner that gives it what you believe to be overly broad authority, that's still on Congress.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

If Congress wrote its enabling statute in a manner that gives it what you believe to be overly broad authority, that's still on Congress.

Don't say that. You're just making Scoob more right. < facepalm >

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

This ad has been running in our market since the weekend (we're close to PA). Simple, effective, and true.

Been running here to. I doubt it has any effect.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

My dad is similar...only more extreme. He used to LOVE Hillary, he only liked Bill because of Hillary. I am pretty sure he voted for Obama in '08 but has hated him almost since the inauguration. (he thinks Obama is weak and hates Israel and is a foreign policy disaster) He is an educated man (he had earned a JD) but has stopped caring about politics day to day so much of what he knows he gets from Network news. (despite being a 60s liberal for some reason he watches Faux a lot) He wont vote Drumpf but seems to ignore every scandal but is uber focused on every bad Facebook/clickbait style outrage that comes around. (The Clinton Foundation being the Big One) If I dont tell him rather quickly the truth behind the "story" it sets in and he is locked in. Even when I show him facts it doesnt matter he has made up his mind and Hillary is a criminal who he doesnt trust. Keep in mind when all the Ken Starr investigations were going on and I ripped Slick Willy for lying (as a teenager) he would get pretty heated telling me this is all a smokescreen and that tabloid BS and fake scandals were part and parcel and to pay them no mind. Meanwhile, for some ungodly reason he loves Chris Christie now...

Handy, don't take this the wrong way, because it's not intended as an insult, but I believe the puzzlement is created because you really don't know what your dad is thinking or feeling. You see him watching Fox News or reading internet materials published by right wing authors and assume that his thoughts and opinions have been created by these people, that he has basically been brainwashed (to use the common term around here) into thinking this way.

I posted this before, and I'll post it again here. I really recommend this book. It is short and an easy read, and it is eyeopening. Just my two cents.

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

I wasnt talking about ND...the influx/leaving of oil money will screw with them for quite some time. I was talking about WI.

And MN is plum because they reversed the Dubya stylings of Tim Pawlenty. Dayton may be crazy but at least he funds the things he wants to implement. TPaw didnt which killed the local economy.

Those of us cursed with Mr. Walker understood who you were referring to. Things are not quite as dire as you describe, but they are definitely headed in the wrong direction under his leadership. Yet those who continue to suffer will still vote for him. Just be thankful the guy tanked on the national scene, or he could be your problem too.

 

[unofan]

Handy, don't take this the wrong way, because it's not intended as an insult, but I believe the puzzlement is created because you really don't know what your dad is thinking or feeling. You see him watching Fox News or reading internet materials published by right wing authors and assume that his thoughts and opinions have been created by these people, that he has basically been brainwashed (to use the common term around here) into thinking this way.

I posted this before, and I'll post it again here. I really recommend this book. It is short and an easy read, and it is eyeopening. Just my two cents.

Is that the guy who is from coal country and went to Yale law and complains about East Coast liberals bad mouthing hillbillies, or someone else with a similar type of setup for a book?

And I don't really get how it's novel to recognize that old people generally hate change. As Kepler often says, twas ever thus.

But you're deluding yourself if you don't believe that Fox News and the rest of the right wing poutrage machine encourages such thoughts on order to improve its bottom line. Not everyone who agrees with them are brainwashed, but at least some of them are.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Congress writes the law

1. "The fresh water bodies within the United States and its terriories shall be clean."

2. The Executive Branch shall enforce this law via appropriate regulation."

There you have it. Congress does its job and punts in 2 sentences.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Congress writes the law

1. "The fresh water bodies within the United States and its terriories shall be clean."

2. The Executive Branch shall enforce this law via appropriate regulation."

There you have it. Congress does its job and punts in 2 sentences.

Not quite. Congress also has to appropriate funds for the executive agencies, including the EPA, under the budget, and in so doing they exercise the power of the purse to manage (or micromanage) projects. Typically Congress exercises this power as, how shall I put this?, grift for donors, and not for any scientifically valid purpose. But theoretically at least Congress has the power to target spending even for legitimate purposes!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Handy, don't take this the wrong way, because it's not intended as an insult, but I believe the puzzlement is created because you really don't know what your dad is thinking or feeling. You see him watching Fox News or reading internet materials published by right wing authors and assume that his thoughts and opinions have been created by these people, that he has basically been brainwashed (to use the common term around here) into thinking this way.

I posted this before, and I'll post it again here. I really recommend this book. It is short and an easy read, and it is eyeopening. Just my two cents.

I do know what my dad is thinking, because these are discussions we have 2-3 times a week. His love of Faux and it being confounding has to do with the fact that he isnt conservative in any way (well minus taxes though in reality he is centrist there) as I said he is a 60s liberal. He aligns with Bernie on almost every issue. He dislikes Obama and Clinton (at least at first these were the reasons) because they werent LIBERAL enough. He wants the military slashed, social services funded and he is about as socially liberal as you can get. (he loves Elizabeth Warren) Policy-wise he has zero in common with the candidates he seems to like. (he assumes guys like Christie, Romney and Rubio are not truly as Right Wing as they come off mainly because he has an old school political mentality where politicians pivot when they get into office) He doesnt seem to recognize how things have changed. (both for the good or the bad)

My dad seems to want to vote against his own interests and beliefs and the only reasons he can cite is part and parcel to headlines from Faux or CNN. Ask his stance on an issue and then ask who he is supporting and it does not add up.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Those of us cursed with Mr. Walker understood who you were referring to. Things are not quite as dire as you describe, but they are definitely headed in the wrong direction under his leadership. Yet those who continue to suffer will still vote for him. Just be thankful the guy tanked on the national scene, or he could be your problem too.

Scooby still thinks he has a shot I am sure

As a teacher, whose girlfriend is a teacher and who has friends that are teachers both here and there I can say it probably sounds worse to me than it does to many. I am thankful every day for Dayton being my Governor

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Now the eyes short-circuiting?

To my eyes (and I'm no optometrist or associated field), that looks like nystagmus. I have a relative with that. They, for a while, wore prism glasses to deal with the condition.


(And I said prism, with an "m", glasses. )

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Now the eyes short-circuiting?

Ah, the RWNJ Fun House. Endlessly entertaining, but please keep in mind... it's not real.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Is that the guy who is from coal country and went to Yale law and complains about East Coast liberals bad mouthing hillbillies, or someone else with a similar type of setup for a book?

And I don't really get how it's novel to recognize that old people generally hate change. As Kepler often says, twas ever thus.

But you're deluding yourself if you don't believe that Fox News and the rest of the right wing poutrage machine encourages such thoughts on order to improve its bottom line. Not everyone who agrees with them are brainwashed, but at least some of them are.

Why don't you look at the link?

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Ah, the RWNJ Fun House. Endlessly entertaining, but please keep in mind... it's not real.

There's something (like I said, nystagmus?) going on in that video with her eyes.

Real or not, there's a new line in Vegas for debate side bets ...

CLINTON
- knees buckle +750
- full pass out and collapse +2100
- more than 3.5 eye crosses (unintentional) +450

TRUMP
- more than 5.5 "yuuuuuge" +600
- more than 38 uses of "I" +200

(I'm kidding, but starting to wonder if a Vegas house isn't offering some of those. )

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

I do know what my dad is thinking, because these are discussions we have 2-3 times a week. His love of Faux and it being confounding has to do with the fact that he isnt conservative in any way (well minus taxes though in reality he is centrist there) as I said he is a 60s liberal. He aligns with Bernie on almost every issue. He dislikes Obama and Clinton (at least at first these were the reasons) because they werent LIBERAL enough. He wants the military slashed, social services funded and he is about as socially liberal as you can get. (he loves Elizabeth Warren) Policy-wise he has zero in common with the candidates he seems to like. (he assumes guys like Christie, Romney and Rubio are not truly as Right Wing as they come off mainly because he has an old school political mentality where politicians pivot when they get into office) He doesnt seem to recognize how things have changed. (both for the good or the bad)

My dad seems to want to vote against his own interests and beliefs and the only reasons he can cite is part and parcel to headlines from Faux or CNN. Ask his stance on an issue and then ask who he is supporting and it does not add up.

Ok. Again, not trying to pick an argument. I will just tell you that when I read the book, my thought was, "Exactly." Judging by reviews I have seen (including in the link I provided), progressives who read it seem to find that it helps explain why to people like your father, it does "add up."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Ok. Again, not trying to pick an argument. I will just tell you that when I read the book, my thought was, "Exactly." Judging by reviews I have seen (including in the link I provided), progressives who read it seem to find that it helps explain why to people like your father, it does "add up."

We need redneck liberals. We used to have them. Working class liberalism died in the 70s and has yet to be revived, at least on a grand scale.

The irony is we would clean the clocks of the Koch Brothers / Donald Trump / Paul Ryan types. Talk about out-of-touch, clueless elitists.

But we would need to drop some of our cultural litmus tests and allow diversity of opinion on a lot of issues that would make hard core liberals very uncomfortable. We would need to let the red states keep their Peculiar Institutions of homophobia and sexism for another generation or so until they die out demographically. The price of that demand for (granted, Constitutional) purity has been the ongoing destruction of the middle class and the working class by these smirking plutocratic monsters.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

Today tD vowed to build a wall between Brad and Angelina.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part XVIII: I'm OK, You're Deplorable

We need redneck liberals. We used to have them. Working class liberalism died in the 70s and has yet to be revived, at least on a grand scale.

The irony is we would clean the clocks of the Koch Brothers / Donald Trump / Paul Ryan types. Talk about out-of-touch, clueless elitists.

But we would need to drop some of our cultural litmus tests and allow diversity of opinion on a lot of issues that would make hard core liberals very uncomfortable. We would need to let the red states keep their Peculiar Institutions of homophobia and sexism for another generation or so until they die out demographically. The price of that demand for (granted, Constitutional) purity has been the ongoing destruction of the middle class and the working class by these smirking plutocratic monsters.

Yep. You made a plea the other day that people wake up before we all walk over the cliff. The problem is the demonization of certain segments of our community. It used to be resorted to only by extremists on either side. However, when politicians move from just attacking their opponent to attacking segments of the American people, we've crossed a line and I don't think it's likely we go back.