What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

A surprisingly good summary of Trump I read recently went something like "maybe he's not telling the truth, but his telling the truth that the base of the party wants to hear". That's the part that pundidiots (and several lefty USCHO posters ;)) don't get.

Everybody gets this, it's hardly an earth-shattering revelation. The question has always been to what degree the GOP nomination is decided by the invisible primary. The average unit of Republican power isn't an old white male, it's a hedge fund manager's bank balance. The GOP is a machine to keep wealth flowing from the middle to the top, and the conservative rhetoric they employ is the delivery mechanism. The only question concerning Trump is whether he gives them the outcome they want, and he still appears to have no shot in the general.

The drunkard's walk of the American far right occasionally meanders over towards fascism, and this is one of those times. Until now the GOP has never outright adopted fascism as a philosophy, at least outside of foreign policy, partly because there is still a libertarian wing that counters it, partly because the American left is so moderate that the extremism of fascism is viewed as an impractical electoral strategy. But now on the right we have the marriage of demographics, geography, religion, and politics, all of them emphasizing resentment, fear, victimhood, and violence.

We are living in dangerous times, and it would be nice if conservatives of conscience set their own house in order. God knows there are much better models of conservatism out there. Not to mention that if you look at the history of fascist regimes, while they may soar in the short term they tend to end badly.
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Trump on Meet the Press defending his claim that the admin plans to allow 200K Syrian refugees rather than the 10K announced:
“So, he (Obama) said 10,000. The debate said 65,000 already, before we even start. And I think what he really has in mind is 200,000 people and maybe even more than that coming into our country.”

Interesting. Based on what I’ve heard from Trump, what I think he really has in mind is to suspend the Constitution, round up all minorities, make Swedish the national language and force everyone to wear their underwear on the outside. (Yes, borrowing from Woody Allen’s “Bananas”) The point is, when you’re pulling ideas out of your posterior and stating them as facts, anything goes.

In the MTP panel discussion that followed, it was pointed out that Trump “creates an entire alternate reality. And he does not back down. Because he pays no price for it with his supporters. And it is seductive to people because it is the world they want to live in, not the real world. “

So does that make Trump supporters “dreamers”? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Never forget that ignorance is bliss. And the US electorate is blissful.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

We are living in dangerous times, and it would be nice if conservatives of conscience set their own house in order.

Kep, what will it take for you to realize there are no conservatives of conscience? Anybody like that who may have populated the GOP 20-30 years ago has long since left the party. You keep hoping that the Jebbers! patrician New England moderate wing of the party is going to assert itself any day now. Its not because it doesn't exist in any meaningful numbers anymore. Its like watching Beltway pundits tell us how John Kasich is the man to beat. :rolleyes:

Furthermore, Trump doesn't need hedge fund/casino mogul/oil baron money. He's got more money than most of those guys anyway, and even worse for the rest of the field, he generates free press wherever he goes and has like 100% name recognition. In short, he need not kiss @ ss to big donors, nor can their pathetic attacks take him down or they would have already.

The 1950s called. They want their newspapers back.

(Endorsements mean squat. Endorsements by dying enterprises mean less)

Yup and yup. The self importance of newspapers is amusing as all hell. Newspapers = Sunday talk shows = Fox Cable = Right wing talk radio = Network nightly newscasts. The average age of the audience for all of these things is like 70 years old. No offense to people in that age group, but they aren't representative of the country as a whole.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

In the MTP panel discussion that followed, it was pointed out that Trump “creates an entire alternate reality. And he does not back down. Because he pays no price for it with his supporters. And it is seductive to people because it is the world they want to live in, not the real world. "

So something like a...safe space?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kep, what will it take for you to realize there are no conservatives of conscience?

Nonsense. There are plenty -- some of them are right here on this Forum, despite your endless, tedious effort to pigeonhole them as Trump or Huckabee MiniMes.

American conservatism went rotten sometime in the period between 1978 and 1994. The Reagan takeover was mostly cynical and it wrecked the country's fiscal policy for decades, but at least there were intellectual conservatives who had a rational perspective and had well thought-out theories that deserved to be tested. When they were tested and failed, many of those conservatives admitted the failure of supply side and trickle down and started looking at different methodologies. Stockman and Sullivan remained conservatives but criticized the mindless cult of personality that the GOP built around the Gipper to ram their policies through. More and more conservatism was swallowed up by the lunatic right, first on taxes, then religion, and finally on militarism with the colonization of right wing think tanks by neocons in the early 90s. By 1994 American conservativism was a braindead scam benefiting only the donor class, as it has been ever since.

When the neocons took power in 2000, after they used their power for another round of theft from the public treasury they turned to the military as a means to project their philosophy across the world. That's when true fascist tendencies started to show, from the recasting of America from a beacon for immigration to a "Homeland" (we didn't have to guess whose home they meant) to the Leni Riefenstahl-like glorification of the military and the snarling, macho tub thumping for violence, torture, and intimidation. With the Tea Party that hateful streak turned inwards towards America itself, and now in this cycle an actual fascist has emerged, and leads in their nomination polls.

But this was a long, long process. I'll grant that many conservatives who should have known better got caught up in it and were enablers for partisan advantage. But I think they are waking up, and there were conservatives who were never fooled all along, either. And there are even less conscientious but more pragmatic conservatives who realize that when the pustule of the far right pops the folks who are among them will get filthy, too.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kep, where are these people then? When Trump says all Mexicans are rapists, show me the brave righties who rose up to call him out on that. How about how every one of them backed the Planned Parenthood fabricated videos, even though they had to have known better, and now after a PP gets shot up no one is accepting responsibility.

You need to step outside of the CNN newsroom where I'm convinced you work and see the world for what it is. In your whole rant you made my point for me that conservatives haven't been sane since pre-1978. That was 37 freakin years ago. How much longer should we wait for the so called reasonable ones to reassert themselves? Another 37 years? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Nonsense. There are plenty -- some of them are right here on this Forum, despite your endless, tedious effort to pigeonhole them as Trump or Huckabee MiniMes.

I'm with Rover on this one. I can go back to the 2004 GOP Convention and prove that you're wrong. The national party platform has been exactly what Trump is selling this time around. Trump's just too stupid (or smart) to mask it.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

I'm with Rover on this one. I can go back to the 2004 GOP Convention and prove that you're wrong. The national party platform has been exactly what Trump is selling this time around. Trump's just too stupid (or smart) to mask it.

The GOP is not all of American conservatism. Rover's CNN barbs don't even make sense -- CNN, like Rover, is fixated on the presidential candidates and RNC-deployed pundits as if they were all of conservative thought. But they aren't any part of any thought -- they're just hood ornaments. Rover falls for the myth that the pundidiots themselves peddle. Just like the wackjob fundies claim to speak for all of Christianity, the wackjob righties claim to speak for all of conservatism. Maybe it's Rover who really works at CNN. ;)

(I'm kidding of course. I know Rover works for the Hillary campaign.)
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

The GOP is not all of American conservatism. Rover's CNN barbs don't even make sense -- CNN, like Rover, is fixated on the presidential candidates and RNC-deployed pundits as if they were all of conservative thought. But they aren't any part of any thought -- they're just hood ornaments. Rover falls for the myth that the pundidiots themselves peddle. Just like the wackjob fundies claim to speak for all of Christianity, the wackjob righties claim to speak for all of conservatism. Maybe it's Rover who really works at CNN. ;)

(I'm kidding of course. I know Rover works for the Hillary campaign.)

No. The GOP in the State of Minnesota is exactly the same as the national party. And we're supposedly a Blue State. A psycho was elected Governor in Wisconsin 3 times. Brownback was reelected. A sociopath was just elected Governor in Kentucky. You need to lift your head out of the sand.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

No. The GOP in the State of Minnesota is exactly the same as the national party. And we're supposedly a Blue State. A psycho was elected Governor in Wisconsin 3 times. Brownback was reelected. A sociopath was just elected Governor in Kentucky. You need to lift your head out of the sand.

If you want to argue the GOP is corrupt all the way to its roots you'll get no argument from me. I seem to not be making myself understood because all these supposed zingers are remarks I myself agree with. So let me use somebody else's words. He said it better.
 
No. The GOP in the State of Minnesota is exactly the same as the national party. And we're supposedly a Blue State. A psycho was elected Governor in Wisconsin 3 times. Brownback was reelected. A sociopath was just elected Governor in Kentucky. You need to lift your head out of the sand.
Exactly the case where you live in a Red State like myself, the state and national are one and the same. Our Legislature is populated with wing nuts, even the Anchorage Assembly has a few. The moderates aren't allowed to exist, look at Lisa Murkowski as she turns to the right and alienates the coalition that got her elected.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

No. The GOP in the State of Minnesota is exactly the same as the national party. And we're supposedly a Blue State. A psycho was elected Governor in Wisconsin 3 times. Brownback was reelected. A sociopath was just elected Governor in Kentucky. You need to lift your head out of the sand.

Are you intentionally obtuse on this idea that the GOP does not represent all conservatives in this country? Do you need a Venn diagram to explain Kepler's point to you? Well, I'm not posting an image, but I will describe it to you. Start with a big circle, color it green, yellow, orange, or some sort of purple, if your heart desires. Label it "Conservatives." Now inside of that circle, place a smaller red circle (size doesn't matter in this case) and label it "GOP." There you have it, that explains his "The GOP is not all of American conservatism" statement.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kep you're having an argument with yourself which is really, really weird. :eek: :D For your sake I'm hoping you're just drunk!

So knucks' haven't been sane for 4 decades, but there's a silent majority of them who will break out any day now? What are the waiting for in your opinion?

Reasonable conservatives = unicorns. They exist in mythology, but nobody's seen one for a long time...
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Are you intentionally obtuse on this idea that the GOP does not represent all conservatives in this country? Do you need a Venn diagram to explain Kepler's point to you? Well, I'm not posting an image, but I will describe it to you. Start with a big circle, color it green, yellow, orange, or some sort of purple, if your heart desires. Label it "Conservatives." Now inside of that circle, place a smaller red circle (size doesn't matter in this case) and label it "GOP." There you have it, that explains his "The GOP is not all of American conservatism" statement.

Sure. I've argued that Obama is a more conservative President than GW Bush. And I'd be right. But, unfortunately for you and Kepler in this case the definition has been changed. Conservative today means Voter ID, a Wall, an anti-Gay Marriage Amendment to the Constitution. It doesn't mean don't start wars you can't finish and don't spend money you don't have. Those conservative ideals are no longer conservative. They're dead. Hell, they're closer to Liberal ideas now.

So, NO, I'm not obtuse. I watch the news. I read the newspaper. I watch how things are defined and how definitions change.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Sure. I've argued that Obama is a more conservative President than GW Bush. And I'd be right. But, unfortunately for you and Kepler in this case the definition has been changed. Conservative today means Voter ID, a Wall, an anti-Gay Marriage Amendment to the Constitution. It doesn't mean don't start wars you can't finish and don't spend money you don't have. Those conservative ideals are no longer conservative. They're dead. Hell, they're closer to Liberal ideas now.

So, NO, I'm not obtuse. I watch the news. I read the newspaper. I watch how things are defined and how definitions change.

Yup.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kep you're having an argument with yourself which is really, really weird. :eek: :D For your sake I'm hoping you're just drunk!

So knucks' haven't been sane for 4 decades, but there's a silent majority of them who will break out any day now? What are the waiting for in your opinion?

Reasonable conservatives = unicorns. They exist in mythology, but nobody's seen one for a long time...
Nobody has said that conservatives outside of the GOP are a silent majority, that's your assertion or misreading of the statement, only thing he stated and I support the notion is that they exist. Some may be to the right of the GOP, some may be to the left. Regardless, they exist.
Sure. I've argued that Obama is a more conservative President than GW Bush. And I'd be right. But, unfortunately for you and Kepler in this case the definition has been changed. Conservative today means Voter ID, a Wall, an anti-Gay Marriage Amendment to the Constitution. It doesn't mean don't start wars you can't finish and don't spend money you don't have. Those conservative ideals are no longer conservative. They're dead. Hell, they're closer to Liberal ideas now.

So, NO, I'm not obtuse. I watch the news. I read the newspaper. I watch how things are defined and how definitions change.
You're assigning specific GOP issue stances to mean all conservatives must support them. Do you even think these things through before you post them?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

So knucks' haven't been sane for 4 decades, but there's a silent majority of them who will break out any day now

Show me where I said there were a majority.
Show me where I said they will break out any day.

As the GOP morphs more and more into a National Front type of organization, thinking people on the left need to recognize that the best pesticide to knock out the right's horribles are intelligent conservatives. Do you really think Bob, for example, is some sort of nascent fascist? Those are the people who are going to stop the Republicans from goosestepping into the dustbin of history and taking a lot of innocents with them. Liberals aren't going to stop them because conservatives are going to want to stand together to oppose liberals. So it's up to thought leaders on the right to slay the dullard beast in their midst.

St. Clown understood my post. I'm not sure why you can't.
 
Last edited:
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Nobody has said that conservatives outside of the GOP are a silent majority, that's your assertion or misreading of the statement, only thing he stated and I support the notion is that they exist. Some may be to the right of the GOP, some may be to the left. Regardless, they exist.

You're assigning specific GOP issue stances to mean all conservatives must support them. Do you even think these things through before you post them?

No. I'm assigning the most commonly known definition to the most commonly used terms.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top