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Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

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Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kepler said:
There are no other libertarians in Congress besides Paul. There are virtually no libertarians in elected office, at least above local positions.

Virtually all libertarian opinion-making/reflecting sites opposed the war. This sample was repeated a million times throughout their literati. I'm only an observer of homo libertanus and not the best person to represent them, but IINM we have a couple on the board if they want to flesh out who they consider to be the standard-bearers of the movement.

Like liberals, libertarians read it correctly from the start -- liberals as corporate policy implemented by military means, libertarians as government overreach unjustified by the facts, and both as the extension of The Empire at the expense of American values and interests.
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Well that kinda goes to the point of libertarians don't actually exist then. Yeah yeah Ron Paul but if one guy constitutes a movement I guess we should give the Moonies equal footing politically? To answer your earlier question "I'm still not sure how they blew it, but did they ever." they blew it because they exist only conceptually but not in the real world.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Libertarians exist until it's their handouts, entitlements, and privileges that are threatened. Then all of a sudden, they aren't so libertarian anymore.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Rover said:
Well that kinda goes to the point of libertarians don't actually exist then. Yeah yeah Ron Paul but if one guy constitutes a movement I guess we should give the Moonies equal footing politically? To answer your earlier question "I'm still not sure how they blew it, but did they ever." they blew it because they exist only conceptually but not in the real world.
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Except that's not the case at all. They exist alright -- how on earth can you post on political message boards and not recognize that they probably make up the majority of political posters on most of them? :p
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Libertarians exist until it's their handouts, entitlements, and privileges that are threatened. Then all of a sudden, they aren't so libertarian anymore.
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I'm sure there is some hypocrisy in the libertarian movement, just as there is everywhere. I for one could never square one half of big 'L' Libertarianism's love affair with the Pro-Life movement -- those were the same Libertarians who were attracted to the Tea Party.

But there is a strong intellectual tradition in libertarianism of actually practicing what one preaches. Once you get away from the herpa-derps who probably can't spell "Mill," there is a substantive body of theory and action. Much like liberalism, it's currently in eclipse because it runs directly counter to the game being played by our political and economic oligarchs.

It's too bad liberals and libertarians can't figure out how to join forces on the specific issues they do agree on -- that would be a formidable combination.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Libertarians exist until it's their handouts, entitlements, and privileges that are threatened. Then all of a sudden, they aren't so libertarian anymore.
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a lib wouldn't want the gov'ment to stick their nose into the baby making business. all the "libs" on the stage now toe the anti-abortion line. ergo they ain't libertarians.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

mookie1995 said:
a lib wouldn't want the gov'ment to stick their nose into the baby making business. all the "libs" on the stage now toe the anti-abortion line. ergo they ain't libertarians.
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Paul is the only candidate who had any libertarian cred, but as Rover noted he threw that away when he started running, and it was a disaster for him. Like the chick from Dirty Dancing, it was a unique selling point and when he mangled it to be just like everybody else he wound up... just like everybody else.

Unfortunately, anti-government activism in the US is usually tied up with creeps ("keep away from our slaves; keep away from our ahem free cotton pickers; keep away from our guns and Bibles; our womenfolk don't need to worry their perdy little heads about these Men Things"). As a result, libertarianism is a sausagefest and it displays all the deficiencies and inanities that entails.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

joecct said:
War Hero. Not a guy who comes back and throws the rest of the group under the bus.
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I assume you're quoting the right wing bilge, not advocating it.

My point is if Jesus Christ is running for party X, party Y will dig up "stunning revelations" that Jesus is in actuality Satan, and all of party Y's voters will fall for it. That's how the game is played. The GOP portrayal of Kerry is a perfect illustration.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Yup. I almost feel bad for joe but he wants to go back to a time when George W Bush didn't exist. Sadly for him slandering war heroes for political reasons was the standard of the Bush campaign, whether it was John McCain or John Kerry. I always call out huskyfan over this when she tries to wave the bloody shirt and she never has an answer. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, and due to those campaigns military service doesn't have the same resonance it once did in politics because its no longer off limits from political attacks. Thank Karl Rove and crew for that, and all the Republicans who stood by with their mouths closed or who encouraged that during the 2000 and 2004 races.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

To be honest I'm not going to miss military service being sacrosanct in a political campaign. There are such things as bad actors in war. If you do My Lai you're not a hero, you're a villain, and the name on the front of the jersey doesn't matter.

Knee-jerk genuflection to Our Brave Lads, even when well-meaning (and in politics it is never well-meaning), is a bad habit for a democracy to get into. Give our veterans a good life when they return, and keep our active soldiers out of war unless it is the very last resort. That's how to truly honor the military. The weapon porn that drowns every NFL broadcast, and the oo-rah gorilla thumping on the campaign trail, is merely hijacking the terror and pain of servicemen and their families to drive contractor share price higher. F-ck that.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kepler said:
To be honest I'm not going to miss military service being sacrosanct in a political campaign. There are such things as bad actors in war. If you do My Lai you're not a hero, you're a villain, and the name on the front of the jersey doesn't matter.

Knee-jerk genuflection to Our Brave Lads, even when well-meaning (and in politics it is never well-meaning), is a bad habit for a democracy to get into. Give our veterans a good life when they return, and keep our active soldiers out of war unless it is the very last resort. That's how to truly honor the military. The weapon porn that drowns every NFL broadcast, and the oo-rah gorilla thumping on the campaign trail, is merely hijacking the terror and pain of servicemen and their families to drive contractor share price higher. F-ck that.
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I agree. It'll be nice when we don't have to watch this anymore.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

SJHovey said:
I agree. It'll be nice when we don't have to watch this anymore.
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I'm not sure that will ever happen. The Forever War was designed to keep us on permanent war footing, with permanently bloated defense and intelligence budgets. It's not a military strategy, it's an appropriations technique. I'm honestly not sure how we ever get clear of it.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Just think. Per the polls right now our Next President believes the Pyramids of Egypt are Grain Elevators.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - I'm Biden my time till I doctor the hearing.

Kepler said:
To be honest I'm not going to miss military service being sacrosanct in a political campaign. There are such things as bad actors in war. If you do My Lai you're not a hero, you're a villain, and the name on the front of the jersey doesn't matter.

Knee-jerk genuflection to Our Brave Lads, even when well-meaning (and in politics it is never well-meaning), is a bad habit for a democracy to get into. Give our veterans a good life when they return, and keep our active soldiers out of war unless it is the very last resort. That's how to truly honor the military. The weapon porn that drowns every NFL broadcast, and the oo-rah gorilla thumping on the campaign trail, is merely hijacking the terror and pain of servicemen and their families to drive contractor share price higher. F-ck that.
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Dont forget all the stupid memes you see on Facebook now...apparently every cause is stupid because of the soldiers. :rolleyes: A few posters around here like to pull that crap too...
 
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