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Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

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Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kepler said:
While true, if you have a ticket to see Bernie and a ticket to see Hillary, your first choice is to see Bernie and your second choice is to catch up on the laundry.
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I would go listen to Bernie, and probably disagree with 50% of his policies. At the risk of being labeled sexist, I would pass on the female Al Gore.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

busterman62 said:
If, however, the world changes it's axis and Bernie makes it close, get your camera ready to record HRC screaming "Release the Kraken" The end ALWAYS justifies the means.
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It's ironic that the right has spent the last 40 years masturbating each other over their BDSM fantasy of a Strong, Vicious, 24-style Leader, falling for frauds like The Actor and The Chimperor, and in the end, if they really want a Shut Up He Explained president, there she is, just waiting... :eek:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kasich would probably be the best choice in the general election. I'm going to assume he'd bring Ohio with him, and he does seem to have a personality. Furthermore he can legitimately point to being a part of the last effort that resulted in a balanced budget, although that would require his party to give up the IT WAS ALL THE INTERNET BUBBLE schtick at lightening speed. I like when he blasted some mega-donor at a confab who questioned his decision to expand Medicaid, telling her that when he gets asked at the Pearly Gates what he's done for the poor, he'll have an answer but will she?

Having said that he has zero chance for the nomination as there's no way he breaks through the pack, and with an SEC primarly already being formed early he has no inroads into any of those states.

Bernie Sanders is today's Bill Bradley circa 2000. I guy who'd been around for awhile and who everyone has heard of, and then who gets great press for being cerebral which results in decent polling support early. He serves a far more useful purpose than Bradley however in that he's keeping Hillary from drifting right while I don't see what Bradley's effect on Gore was. There's no reason to release the hounds because as has been said I don't think he has the infrastructure to run a national campaign. However, as he's from Vermont he may do well in NH and its nice to see his issues get full exposure from an unwitting lamestream media are only covering them in the hopes of turning the Dem primary into a horserace. Funny how bad intentions sometimes lead to good results. ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

joecct said:
She fired her guns and Bernie kept a-comming
He seemed a little bigger than he was a while ago.

http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/hil...ne-will-take-a-backseat-to-me/article/2567604
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Interesting. The author repeatedly emphasizes that the attendees were disinterested and attributes that to the source Politico report. The problem, of course, is that if you read the Politico story, you find literally nothing about that. Nice news sources you're relying on there.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

When you consider the source of the source that's not surprising.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

joecct said:
There are some state legislatures that look like that.
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No they don't, and that's the point. All whining is relative, and when one side or the other whines about being shut out of the legislative process here, they're talking about, say, getting only 30% of the seats when they're 45% of the voters. It's nice perspective to see that there are actually places where the fix is truly in.

The closest we have to that kind of screw job is the two party system, which has managed to shut out all the other voices. That's the next major change to go after.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

GrinCDXX said:
Interesting. The author repeatedly emphasizes that the attendees were disinterested and attributes that to the source Politico report. The problem, of course, is that if you read the Politico story, you find literally nothing about that. Nice news sources you're relying on there.
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I try to cut joe some slack. He's really not looking forward to a Hillary Presidency. :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kepler said:
Is anyone? :(

I mean, honestly. Even she?

Well, yeah, one is.
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I sure as hell am. If you nervous nellies want to pine for Ralph Nader, be my guest. ;) As Bill Clinton was the best President in generations, I personally think its worth a shot to see if she'll fill out his 3rd term! Since the alternative no matter who is nominated is Bush's 3rd term on steroids, go Hillary. :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
I sure as hell am. If you nervous nellies want to pine for Ralph Nader, be my guest.
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You need a new song. Nobody is talking about a Naderite "cut off nose to spite face" movement except you and a few concern trolls on Kos. Unless The Plan is to equate anyone looking for something from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party as a dewy-eyed idealistic tyro, in which case, yeah you keep at it son, that's a great way to appeal to the base we need to win.

It is possible to be committed to making the best of things in the hope that it will be good, due to the certain knowledge that it will be far better than the only realistic alternative, as anybody who has a job knows. But let's not pretend Hillary is an aspirational candidate. Hillary is a weapon to wield against the zombies. One would rather live in a world without zombies, but as long as they are out there, we need the weapon. That doesn't change the fact that it sucks to have to sleep in a bunker and eat canned Spam.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Buried in this very good article is the contention that an anti-marriage Amendment will be a litmus test for the next GOP nominee. IMO that would be a mistake for the GOP, given that a majority of Americans favor marriage equality and probably an overwhelming majority are sick of the political circus and want to move on to issues that belong in the political realm. Most people -- probably even most anti-marriage equality people -- know that an Amendment drive would fail after a long, costly, noisy campaign, and probably don't relish that.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Kepler said:
You need a new song. Nobody is talking about a Naderite "cut off nose to spite face" movement except you and a few concern trolls on Kos. Unless The Plan is to equate anyone looking for something from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party as a dewy-eyed idealistic tyro, in which case, yeah you keep at it son, that's a great way to appeal to the base we need to win.

It is possible to be committed to making the best of things in the hope that it will be good, due to the certain knowledge that it will be far better than the only realistic alternative, as anybody who has a job knows. But let's not pretend Hillary is an aspirational candidate. Hillary is a weapon to wield against the zombies. One would rather live in a world without zombies, but as long as they are out there, we need the weapon. That doesn't change the fact that it sucks to have to sleep in a bunker and eat canned Spam.
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Huh. I noticed how you conveniently forgot to include the ;) that I put in my post after my Nader line! Why is that Kep? :rolleyes:

But, let me make this point not for you but in general. Liberal/Dems make two critical mistakes when running campaigns.

#1 is the belief that the lamestream media will report The Truth. Then Dems sit around with a deer in the headlights look as stuff like the Swift Boat attacks, Willie Horton, or the run up to the Iraq War is reported fact-check free by the supposed left leaning press.

#2 is the notion that being on the right side of the issues = electoral success. Framing of issues, images, packaging, etc don't matter.

I don't think there's a ton of daylight between Sanders and Clinton or O'Malley and Sanders and Clinton on issues. I'd suspect I align a bit more with Bernie than the other two but haven't done a deep dive. However, what I DO know is Clinton will not wait for the NYT or Washington Post or CNN to call the GOP over false attack ads. Nor will she be unsuspecting of the ferocity of the campaign against her. Been there done that.

I have no idea if Sanders has the same ability. Perhaps he does. However, that's something I'd like to know long, long, long before the general election. Running in polite, leafy Vermont against token opposition, I'm not sure where Sanders would have gotten that education along the way. Lizzy Warren I believe does have what it takes. She expertly handled a smear campaign against her in her Senate race and faced a tough opponent who ran a better than I expected campaign even if he is a dumb @ ss ( :) ). Also Warren has a great ability to frame issues quickly for a TV or debate audience. Again, I don't know one way or the other if Sanders, O'Malley, etc has that ability but I don't want to find out in October of 2016 that they don't in front of 60M viewers.

Mind you GOP voters need to consider the same thing. Of the 500 people running on the Republican side, who's faced a tough race against the Dems? Maybe Jeb Bush in 1994 (the race he lost to Lawton Chiles)? Christie I suppose. Other than that? No on Cruz or Paul. No on Walker because he ran in GOP wave years. Same thing for Rubio. So of the top 4 people (5 if you include TRUMP!) one of them has run a tough race, and he did that 21 years ago. :eek: Something to consider....
 
Re: Campaign 2016 -- Don't Let the Perfect Become the Enemy of the Good

Rover said:
Mind you GOP voters need to consider the same thing. Of the 500 people running on the Republican side, who's faced a tough race against the Dems? Maybe Jeb Bush in 1994 (the race he lost to Lawton Chiles)? Christie I suppose. Other than that? No on Cruz or Paul. No on Walker because he ran in GOP wave years. Same thing for Rubio. So of the top 4 people (5 if you include TRUMP!) one of them has run a tough race, and he did that 21 years ago. :eek: Something to consider....
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With the GOP you get the armored car when you're nominated -- it's less important have a good personal body guard because the party has contracted with mercs anyway.

Point taken though that Hillary is going to bring atomic weapons to a knife fight, which is usually the Republican game, and so their candidate can't be a Palinesque drama queen who can't take it even when they are dishing it out. That eliminates Cruz, Trump, Christie, Fiorina, and Santorum as cry-babies and/or mentally unstable bombasts. None of them except Cruz had any shot anyway, but it should also DQ them for Veep, which ruins Fiorina's gambit banking on her plumbing.
 
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