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Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools?

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Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

Coinciding with the regimes of the current Speaker and Majority Leader. Both need to go.

I think that may be blaming the messenger. The coalition of the centrist right with the nut job right could only pay dividends as long as the nut job right was content with crumbs here and there. But the nut job right has gone rogue -- the Tea Party experience taught them they are more numerous than anybody, including they, thought.

Problem is, the nut job right is correct on democratic principles that it should have a bigger voice within the GOP, since it is nearly half the party. The problem is the distance between the nut job right and the American political center is so great that a Republican party that gives influence and positions equal to the numerical strength of their radical wing cannot win a national election, and may even have trouble holding purple state Senate seats during on-cycle elections.

But the nut jobs don't seem to know or care anymore: they're still doing well enough on off-cycle elections to win Senate seats and their energy and poll discipline lets them win state houses which in turn leads to gerrymandering and holding House majorities even when they lose the national sum of House votes. Meanwhile, losing nut job presidential aspirants have a lucrative money train waiting for them. It's a tragedy of the commons: the individual actors are incentified not to cooperate with the RNC leadership -- in fact, they're in a lot of trouble if they do compromise, and the RNC can't save them from the inevitable attack from their right flank.

It's a genuinely tough situation and I'm not sure whether there's a gradualist path out. A clean break would be great for the party in 2030, but it's sure as heck not going to do them any favors for the next 15 years and nobody in politics is willing to take that kind of up front damage for long term gain. When the Democrats finally kicked the Dixiecrats out it was that sort of damage and handed the White House to the GOP for 5 of 6 elections, but it was also easier because the Dixiecrats were always conservatives at heart -- they weren't an extreme version of the central Democratic mission, they were in many ways opposed to it. There is no real analogy to the GOP dilemma except the case of the paleo-Tea Partiers who were against the banks and the corporatists, but those guys (who the GOP has in fact already turned its back on) were just a sliver of the nut job right.

If I were a national GOP strategist I would say, "OK, we go to the well one more time and crank the nativism and racism up to 11, and get power. Once in office, we immediately back off of it -- lose all the trappings and neutralize the social conservative wing. We have so much momentum with them they'll vote for us for the next few cycles purely out of habit. In the meantime we double down on the fiscal conservatism but in every other way just co-opt the Democratic message. We're for blacks too, give them school vouchers! We're for Hispanics too, create immigrant entrepreneurial zones where normal regulations are suspended so first and second-gen immigrant owned businesses can launch! We're for women too, free child care for working parents! We're for science too, triple STEM investment siphoned through the private sector (and our donors)!" And to fuel it all, the usual litany of tax cuts, deregulation, and minarchist argle bargle. The billionaires will love it, the supplysiders will wet themselves, the militarists will have a field day. Only the nativists will lose, and they have no purchase with the Dems anyway.

But that takes leadership, and I don't see a single competent leader on the right.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

I think that may be blaming the messenger. The coalition of the centrist right with the nut job right could only pay dividends as long as the nut job right was content with crumbs here and there. But the nut job right has gone rogue -- the Tea Party experience taught them they are more numerous than anybody, including they, thought.

Problem is, the nut job right is correct on democratic principles that it should have a bigger voice within the GOP, since it is nearly half the party. The problem is the distance between the nut job right and the American political center is so great that a Republican party that gives influence and positions equal to the numerical strength of their radical wing cannot win a national election, and may even have trouble holding purple state Senate seats during on-cycle elections.

But the nut jobs don't seem to know or care anymore: they're still doing well enough on off-cycle elections to win Senate seats and their energy and poll discipline lets them win state houses which in turn leads to gerrymandering and holding House majorities even when they lose the national sum of House votes. Meanwhile, losing nut job presidential aspirants have a lucrative money train waiting for them. It's a tragedy of the commons: the individual actors are incentified not to cooperate with the RNC leadership -- in fact, they're in a lot of trouble if they do compromise, and the RNC can't save them from the inevitable attack from their right flank.

It's a genuinely tough situation and I'm not sure whether there's a gradualist path out. A clean break would be great for the party in 2030, but it's sure as heck not going to do them any favors for the next 15 years and nobody in politics is willing to take that kind of up front damage for long term gain. When the Democrats finally kicked the Dixiecrats out it was that sort of damage and handed the White House to the GOP for 5 of 6 elections, but it was also easier because the Dixiecrats were always conservatives at heart -- they weren't an extreme version of the central Democratic mission, they were in many ways opposed to it. There is no real analogy to the GOP dilemma except the case of the paleo-Tea Partiers who were against the banks and the corporatists, but those guys (who the GOP has in fact already turned its back on) were just a sliver of the nut job right.

If I were a national GOP strategist I would say, "OK, we go to the well one more time and crank the nativism and racism up to 11, and get power. Once in office, we immediately back off of it -- lose all the trappings and neutralize the social conservative wing. We have so much momentum with them they'll vote for us for the next few cycles purely out of habit. In the meantime we double down on the fiscal conservatism but in every other way just co-opt the Democratic message. We're for blacks too, give them school vouchers! We're for Hispanics too, create immigrant entrepreneurial zones where normal regulations are suspended so first and second-gen immigrant owned businesses can launch! We're for women too, free child care for working parents! We're for science too, triple STEM investment siphoned through the private sector (and our donors)!" And to fuel it all, the usual litany of tax cuts, deregulation, argle bargle. The billionaires will love it, the supplysiders will wet themselves, the militarists will have a field day. Only the nativists will lose, and they have no purchase with the Dems anyway.

But that takes leadership, and I don't see a single competent leader on the right.

Excellent analysis. Now the only question is do we want them to continue giving the Tea Party crumbs and get away with it. For example, nominating someone like Jeb again this time. Or, do we want them to push all in and implode making them irrelevant for the next 16 years. It's a tough choice.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

There's a difference between thinking somebody is x and thinking they are "nut job x." For instance: Chris Christie is right, Paul Ryan is far right, Ted Cruz is nut job right.

By that measure, Martin O'Malley is left, Bernie Sanders is far left, but I don't know who is nut job left. I guess the folks at the American Communist Party? It would help to have an objective definition of "nut jobbery."

The striking condition of the current American political spectrum is ideas formerly espoused only by crank groups like the John Birch Society or the Foundation for Economic Education are now voiced inside the mainstream Republican party itself. The left was like that in the 70s, but since then the Democrats have been solidly centrist. On most policies, the Democratic center-point is the national center-point, while the GOP center-point skews right or even far right (and, on creationism and climate change, nut job right). The GOP used to be very successful at holding ranks, trading centrist support for far right positions for far right support for centrist positions. This has only broken down in the last 6 years or so.

You think Bob has the same metrics as you? You are either completely naive or full on arrogant. He thinks anyone left of Scalia is "Far Left" and anyone that is actually a Democrat is a Nutjob. Go back and read what he says the guy shifted so far right he probably thinks Ted Cruz is a Centrist.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

You think Bob has the same metrics as you? You are either completely naive or full on arrogant. He thinks anyone left of Scalia is "Far Left" and anyone that is actually a Democrat is a Nutjob. Go back and read what he says the guy shifted so far right he probably thinks Ted Cruz is a Centrist.

We know for sure that he thinks Roberts is a commie pinko. Obama is so far left in his world he's falling off the number line altogether. Especially since he declared Martial Law and rounded up the guns last week.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

We know for sure that he thinks Roberts is a commie pinko. Obama is so far left in his world he's falling off the number line altogether. Especially since he declared Martial Law and rounded up the guns last week.

Now you are starting to see the truth...just you wait until they start rounding us up into those Wal-Mart Concentration Camps!! #JadeHelmisReal #TheVoicesNeverLie #Sheeple
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

You think Bob has the same metrics as you? You are either completely naive or full on arrogant. He thinks anyone left of Scalia is "Far Left" and anyone that is actually a Democrat is a Nutjob. Go back and read what he says the guy shifted so far right he probably thinks Ted Cruz is a Centrist.

Well, that's why I was thinking we need a definition of "nut jobbery." Obviously Bob is going to slide the number line, but I was thinking that while the jump from centrist to x to far x is numerical the jump from far x to nut job x is something else -- no amount of number line shifting gets you there, it's a hyperspace leap. So even if Bob thinks Paul Ryan is a centrist, Chris Christie is left, and Hillary is far left, that does not necessarily mean he believes O'Malley and Sanders are nut job left -- they may just be farther left.

Nut job is something special. For example, I would say that Tailgunner Ted has it but Scott Walker doesn't. Scott Walker isn't nut job right, hes just far, far right -- numerically he's way out there, but he's still using the set of Real Numbers. Ted's complex -- he's got an imaginary component.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

Well, that's why I was thinking we need a definition of "nut jobbery." Obviously Bob is going to slide the number line, but I was thinking that while the jump from centrist to x to far x is numerical the jump from far x to nut job x is something else -- no amount of number line shifting gets you there, it's a hyperspace leap. So even if Bob thinks Paul Ryan is a centrist, Chris Christie is left, and Hillary is far left, that does not necessarily mean he believes O'Malley and Sanders are nut job left -- they may just be farther left.

Nut job is something special. For example, I would say that Tailgunner Ted has it but Scott Walker doesn't. Scott Walker isn't nut job right, hes just far, far right -- numerically he's way out there, but he's still using the Real Numbers.

No, Scott Walker is nut job right. I think you automatically qualify for "nut job" status when you take control of a state and run it into the ground.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

Bob is trying out for an anchor job at CNN, and his false equivalency skills might just give Erin Burnett and John King a run for their money!

I can't speak to 60's leftist radicalism because I wasn't born yet (where's Opie when we need him?) but to say currently nutters as a % of the right = nutters as a % of the left is to also say you have your head so far up your posterier that you need blasting caps to pry it loose. Forcing rape victims to have their attackers' children is Talibanesque, yet its mainstream conservatism. Insisting borrowing money to give tax cuts for Mitt Romney actually pays for itself, when all evidence points to the contrary is lunacy, but its GOP gospel. No need to go on and on, and I'm sure there are still good people remaining in the GOP, but the inmates are now running the asylum. No amount of crucifying yourself is going to change that.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

No, Scott Walker is nut job right. I think you automatically qualify for "nut job" status when you take control of a state and run it into the ground.

No, that just makes you incompetent. For example, Dubya was incompetent but not a nut job.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

No, that just makes you incompetent. For example, Dubya was incompetent but not a nut job.

No, Dubya was a nut job. Anyone who starts a war in the Middle East is a nutjob.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

No, Dubya was a nut job. Anyone who starts a war in the Middle East is a nutjob.

Dubya was just the empty dunce cap. There were nut jobs in that administration -- nearly all Neocons are nut jobs, and we can never allow them near power again -- but Dubya was just a poor boob in twenty levels over his head. He would have made a really solid car salesman. Probably been a lot happier, too.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

I see the hard lefties are out in force to whine about my latest postings and make up things I didn't actually say. Tells me I got something right.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

So you admit Obummer is a nutjob? After all, he did declare war on Syria...

No, he didn't. But, you go ahead and think that if you want to. After all, you Neocons have to spin things as best they can to justify all the **** Cheney did.

I see the hard lefties are out in force to whine about my latest postings and make up things I didn't actually say. Tells me I got something right.

Well, the titanium probably won't rust so you got that going for ya.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

It is kind of funny. If one read USCHO's political/campaign threads as their exclusive source for political news and opinion, you would clearly be left with the impression that any political candidate with an (R) behind his or her name is a bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent nut job thief.

Yet, when the public enters the voting booth and is forced to choose between, a) the bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent nut job thief, or b) the Democrat candidate, at or near 50% respond by, "Uhm, well, I'm gonna have to go with a) on that one."

I'm sure most here will comfort themselves by claiming those 50% are just as bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent, nutty or dishonest as the candidate they vote for (as if that can be comforting), but I just wonder when the self-reflection will kick in that asks how the he!! to we lose to these guys.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

It is kind of funny. If one read USCHO's political/campaign threads as their exclusive source for political news and opinion, you would clearly be left with the impression that any political candidate with an (R) behind his or her name is a bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent nut job thief.

Yet, when the public enters the voting booth and is forced to choose between, a) the bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent nut job thief, or b) the Democrat candidate, at or near 50% respond by, "Uhm, well, I'm gonna have to go with a) on that one."

I'm sure most here will comfort themselves by claiming those 50% are just as bigoted, dangerous, stupid, conniving, morally bankrupt, gullible, incompetent, nutty or dishonest as the candidate they vote for (as if that can be comforting), but I just wonder when the self-reflection will kick in that asks how the he!! to we lose to these guys.

Its quite funny, I figured Kepler would say anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders was a right wing nut job.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - A Trump l'oeil? Kepler's Laws of Election Motions? Ship of Fools

It's a college hockey board. Obviously it's not a 50/50 split like the national political setup.
 
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