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Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

OSUBamey said:
Oswego does not, to my knowledge, have a grant program specifically for Canadian students, though we do have aid packages for students from out of the country. I can check tomorrow as I work in the Admissions office and will get back to everyone.
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and see if you have auditors in your office......
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

"The institution had no formal, ongoing or planned initiatives for Canadian recruitment beyond participating in large college fairs in that country and/or sending out mass mailings regarding open houses."

It sounds to me that Buff State made a reasonable recruitment effort if they sent out mass mailings and attended large college fairs. Should they have had door-to-door salesmen? I think I have a problem with this ruling if the institution made a reasonable effort to get Canadians, but they could only attract a those students interested in playing hockey.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Josh Carey said:
While this might be true, my point was that, per the NCAA report tonight, he was at a recruiting advantage relative to his competition. But his record did not bare out an advantage over his competition. And I doubt the admission standards were changed "on him". Geneseo "in general" is becoming more selective. My uncle graduated from the school in the 90s and couldn't have gotten in when I did, and it's very possible I wouldn't get in now. This is a trend that functions independently of the hockey program. Just like financial aid is suppose to function independently of the hockey team.
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You're logic is seriously, seriously flawed.

If the Oswegos and Plattsburghs of the world had the exact same aid program but packaged it correctly for the NCAA rules, they had just as much of a recruiting advantage as Geneseo did.

Just because Geneseo didn't do it correctly does not at all mean they had an advantage over other schools. It just means they were sloppy about it.

And yes, some schools do allow leeway for certain students to get in that don't meet admission standards. Happened all the time in Potsdam during their basketball dynasty. I know that Geneseo cannot bring in hockey players that they could have brought in before based on grades. And Geneseo has had pretty high standards for a long time.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Do these punishments/sanctions or whatever you want to call them have any effect on prior seasons' games/rankings? Notably, I'm thinking of a couple Geneseo SUNYAC Championships.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

AGPennypacker said:
Do these punishments/sanctions or whatever you want to call them have any effect on prior seasons' games/rankings? Notably, I'm thinking of a couple Geneseo SUNYAC Championships.
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The violations were found in these three years
2006-07
2007-08
2008-09

And probation for this year and next

No mention of ripping titles in the sanctions.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Russell Jaslow said:
You're logic is seriously, seriously flawed.

If the Oswegos and Plattsburghs of the world had the exact same aid program but packaged it correctly for the NCAA rules, they had just as much of a recruiting advantage as Geneseo did.

Just because Geneseo didn't do it correctly does not at all mean they had an advantage over other schools. It just means they were sloppy about it.

And yes, some schools do allow leeway for certain students to get in that don't meet admission standards. Happened all the time in Potsdam during their basketball dynasty. I know that Geneseo cannot bring in hockey players that they could have brought in before based on grades. And Geneseo has had pretty high standards for a long time.
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Agreed. Josh you can't jump to "results" as a means to an end, it's the process Genny screwed up on and is being punished for.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

jconnor said:
Yea, and how are they doing this year:rolleyes:
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Utica has lost both its games against #1 "ranked" Oswego by a total of two goals - the only other team that has come that close was Elmira's win by 1 goal :cool:
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Utterly shocking. Mohawk does an excellent write up about this. I'm shocked about this. I hope this doesn't lead to the agreement being broken like BillR was talking about. And GLM is right about the playoffs. Let's go back to the old days of 6 teams this year. Just stupid by Genny and Buff St. If the problems the Bengals were having betwee the coaches and players and probation won't get this guy fired, nothing will.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

MountieBoyOz said:
Utterly shocking. Mohawk does an excellent write up about this. I'm shocked about this. I hope this doesn't lead to the agreement being broken like BillR was talking about. And GLM is right about the playoffs. Let's go back to the old days of 6 teams this year. Just stupid by Genny and Buff St. If the problems the Bengals were having betwee the coaches and players and probation won't get this guy fired, nothing will.
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The 'old days' are last year..there have been and will be six teams last year and this year.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

I'm putting together a piece for USCHO.

But I will say this -- there are other schools in the country being looked at by the NCAA.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Ozz said:
The 'old days' are last year..there have been and will be six teams last year and this year.
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When was the last time the SUNYAC tournament wasn't six teams?

The only thing that changed in 2007 was the made each round of the playoffs a single game rather than a two-game series. They also changed the SUNYAC finals from a three game series to a winner take all one game championship.

The number of teams hasn't changed in I dont know how long. Russell?

Also, although Geneseo was only found in VIOLATION the past three seasons. You have to wonder since this program was started in 2001? I believe I read from the literature if this had a big influence on getting Geneseo loaded up in 2005 and 2006 when they won their back-to-back SUNYAC titles.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
When was the last time the SUNYAC tournament wasn't six teams?

The only thing that changed in 2007 was the made each round of the playoffs a single game rather than a two-game series. They also changed the SUNYAC finals from a three game series to a winner take all one game championship.

The number of teams hasn't changed in I dont know how long. Russell?
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A very long time. Basically back before Buffalo State had a program, there were 4 teams in the tournament. And before that, the four teams played at one site in a final four format.

Also, although Geneseo was only found in VIOLATION the past three seasons. You have to wonder since this program was started in 2001? I believe I read from the literature if this had a big influence on getting Geneseo loaded up in 2005 and 2006 when they won their back-to-back SUNYAC titles.
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Apparently, they were warned back then, but were not cited for any violation because they tried to fix it.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Just to clarify...
The program is a SUNY-wide initiative, not just a Geneseo/Buff State program.
The offer was available to ALL Canadians, not just athletes, but at Geneseo only athletes took advantage of the program.

It was a separate incentive & had nothing to do with financial aid, which is need-based.

No one turned anyone in, the NCAA looks at ALL such programs.

Geneseo also has an international residence hall.

Galan wanted to go to med school & a degree from GSU looks a lot better on your resume than one from Plattsburgh.
He did not get a "free" education.

This may be just the tip of the iceberg in SUNY Ice Hockey!

By the way, Josh, thank you for your opinion. You what they say about opinions don't you?
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Two items being batted around:

1. Kevin Galan

To my knowledge, no one in Plattsburgh has any issues with his leaving or playing at Geneseo. It was understood here that once he made the decision to go pre-med, he had to transfer out because Plattsburgh didn't offer a major that would work for him. (Not that a "Geneseo degree looks better than a Plattsburgh one". Could that be a more elitest comment?). Geneseo offered him a program Plattsburgh didn't. No problems here (that I'm aware of).

2. Only athletes take advantage of the program.

If that's true (and I suspect it is considering the penalty), then I feel sorry for Buffalo and Geneseo. However, how do you prove you really tried to get non-athletes to take advantage of the program? Plus it sounds like they had several years to remedy the problem without concequence before the NCAA finally said you've had long enough.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Russell Jaslow said:
I'm putting together a piece for USCHO.

But I will say this -- there are other schools in the country being looked at by the NCAA.
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Nice teaser....when can we expect to see it - I can't wait to read it.
 
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