USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
- Thread starter Kepler
- Start date
ticapnews
Never Forget!
19 October (Saturday) a couple major events occur. There will be a massive Remain protest in London which has been scheduled for some time. Of legal note, it is likely parliament will be in emergency session on Saturday. The Benn Act requires BoJo to seek, in writing, an extension from the EU by 11:59pm Saturday. Parliament even took the trouble to write the letter for him; all he has to do is sign it. However, he may have a way out. The law requires him to seek an extension if parliament have not agreed to a Brexit plan. He can reintroduce May's plan (Since it's a new session of parliament) but let the ERG know that they can vote for it this time because he won't actually implement it. Then he counts on enough Labour MPs who are in Leave constituencies to back the plan. When the UK crash out 31 October they can tell the voters they followed the voter wishes and passed a plan but that horrible BoJo failed to implement it therefore it's all his fault. Even though they know a vote in favor of the plan is actually a vote for No Deal. MPs are entirely that cynical and want to keep their jobs.
BoJo hasn't said he's putting anything before parliament, but he meets with EU leaders this week and may come back from those meetings and call for a vote Saturday, before he has to sign the letter.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
This news is several hours old because I've been at work. There could be a deal presented to the EU within hours of this writing.
News from the UK is that it is starting to play out very close to how I prophesied below. Members of the ERG went to No 10 to meet BoJo, and the PM is reaching out to many of the 21 former Tories it removed the whip from in September. Also to several Labour MPs. It is unknown at this time what the DUP plan to do, but several members were scheduled to meet with BoJo after the ERG. If the deal isn't word for word what May and the EU agreed, it will be close.
All of this is smoke and mirrors. BoJo has absolutely no intention of implementing any plan before 31 October. He just wants the approval of parliament so he doesn't have to sign a letter to get an extension. Even if he were seriously trying to get a deal, there wouldn't be time to get all the needed laws through parliament in time - but he's not going to introduce them anyway. Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP should be shouting from the rooftops that this isn't real, but the narrative has taken hold in the press. You'd think that with a million+ protesters scheduled to be in London Saturday that would be a great time for Corbyn to rally support to the cause. He's from London, his constituency is in London, parliament is in London...so naturally he'll be in Liverpool on Saturday. Even with a vital vote possible in parliament. This would be like if our House of Representatives were having a major vote with an uncertain outcome and Nancy Pelosi decided to head to Michigan that day instead.
With the time difference the people in Brussels might be coming into work to find some mail from No 10 waiting for them. We'll see.
This news is several hours old because I've been at work. There could be a deal presented to the EU within hours of this writing.
News from the UK is that it is starting to play out very close to how I prophesied below. Members of the ERG went to No 10 to meet BoJo, and the PM is reaching out to many of the 21 former Tories it removed the whip from in September. Also to several Labour MPs. It is unknown at this time what the DUP plan to do, but several members were scheduled to meet with BoJo after the ERG. If the deal isn't word for word what May and the EU agreed, it will be close.
All of this is smoke and mirrors. BoJo has absolutely no intention of implementing any plan before 31 October. He just wants the approval of parliament so he doesn't have to sign a letter to get an extension. Even if he were seriously trying to get a deal, there wouldn't be time to get all the needed laws through parliament in time - but he's not going to introduce them anyway. Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP should be shouting from the rooftops that this isn't real, but the narrative has taken hold in the press. You'd think that with a million+ protesters scheduled to be in London Saturday that would be a great time for Corbyn to rally support to the cause. He's from London, his constituency is in London, parliament is in London...so naturally he'll be in Liverpool on Saturday. Even with a vital vote possible in parliament. This would be like if our House of Representatives were having a major vote with an uncertain outcome and Nancy Pelosi decided to head to Michigan that day instead.
With the time difference the people in Brussels might be coming into work to find some mail from No 10 waiting for them. We'll see.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
Some news headlines in a quickly evolving story
The DUP are not on board with the new plan. That was always going to be the case. There is no way to handle the Northern Ireland issue to their satisfaction, and a no deal won't make them happy either.
One EU delegate has declared the proposal "impossible" but negotiations continue.
37 British members of the European Parliament are not waiting for BoJo and have reportedly asked for an extension.
The Irish PM has said a second European summit might be necessary (without BoJo) to discuss Brexit.
Within the hour another ERG group will meet at No 10. The sales pitch they will tell the public is that they don't want to be responsible for not getting a deal and causing another delay. I'll reiterate this is hogwash and they are being told in private to vote for it because it guarantees no deal.
Some news headlines in a quickly evolving story
The DUP are not on board with the new plan. That was always going to be the case. There is no way to handle the Northern Ireland issue to their satisfaction, and a no deal won't make them happy either.
One EU delegate has declared the proposal "impossible" but negotiations continue.
37 British members of the European Parliament are not waiting for BoJo and have reportedly asked for an extension.
The Irish PM has said a second European summit might be necessary (without BoJo) to discuss Brexit.
Within the hour another ERG group will meet at No 10. The sales pitch they will tell the public is that they don't want to be responsible for not getting a deal and causing another delay. I'll reiterate this is hogwash and they are being told in private to vote for it because it guarantees no deal.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
Do they have any formal standing to do that or is it just an informal request? My understanding was that the government of the UK had to request that. But I am ignorant of the powers of the EU national representatives.
Do they have any formal standing to do that or is it just an informal request? My understanding was that the government of the UK had to request that. But I am ignorant of the powers of the EU national representatives.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
They don't have any legal standing because a formal request has to come from the PM. Technically the European Parliament could vote to ask for an extension but it won't. Europe has remained solidly behind Michel Barnier throughout and no one will do anything to undermine him. This was just a move by these MEPs to go on the record seeking an extension.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
BoJo says "We are not there yet" with the EU.
BoJo met with the 1922 Committee.
Negotiations with the DUP are continuing. (Why bother? They will never support a deal.)
An anonymous cabinet member told Sky News that cabinet was not given an update on Brexit because negotiations are ongoing. (In reality it's because different people are being told different things in private and making a statement at a cabinet meeting would destroy that. Some are being told this deal is sincere and they need to support it; others are being told this deal is a sham but to get the no deal Brexit they need to support it.)
The government will table a motion tonight to have parliament sit in emergency session on Saturday.
BoJo says "We are not there yet" with the EU.
BoJo met with the 1922 Committee.
Negotiations with the DUP are continuing. (Why bother? They will never support a deal.)
An anonymous cabinet member told Sky News that cabinet was not given an update on Brexit because negotiations are ongoing. (In reality it's because different people are being told different things in private and making a statement at a cabinet meeting would destroy that. Some are being told this deal is sincere and they need to support it; others are being told this deal is a sham but to get the no deal Brexit they need to support it.)
The government will table a motion tonight to have parliament sit in emergency session on Saturday.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
Is that strictly for the optics vis-a-vis BoJo's Tory purge? Or is it self-preservation?
Is that strictly for the optics vis-a-vis BoJo's Tory purge? Or is it self-preservation?
ticapnews
Never Forget!
There are several Labour MPs whose constituencies voted for Leave. Plus Corbyn himself is anti-EU (just not in favor of leaving) so he isn't in any position to force MPs on this issue. Brexit has torn both the Tory and Labour parties to shreds.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
An IRA member appeared on Channel 4 News from an unknown location, wearing a hood, with his words spoken by an actor. He said that any infrastructure would become a "legitimate target" for the IRA. They do not see the border as an Irish border, but a British border (whether in Ireland or in the Irish Sea) and the English are illegally occupying a portion of Ireland.
Also, government confirms no Brexit deal will be agreed tonight. He must have proposed something in addition to moving the border from Northern Ireland to the Irish Sea. Whatever it is, the Europeans aren't having it.
An IRA member appeared on Channel 4 News from an unknown location, wearing a hood, with his words spoken by an actor. He said that any infrastructure would become a "legitimate target" for the IRA. They do not see the border as an Irish border, but a British border (whether in Ireland or in the Irish Sea) and the English are illegally occupying a portion of Ireland.
Also, government confirms no Brexit deal will be agreed tonight. He must have proposed something in addition to moving the border from Northern Ireland to the Irish Sea. Whatever it is, the Europeans aren't having it.
French Rage
NICKERSON HAS [CENSORED]
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
Just one of the many freedoms the people will gain, joe tells us.
Just one of the many freedoms the people will gain, joe tells us.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is demanding another independence vote happen in 2020, rather than waiting until 2022. Polls now have independence at 50/50. As with Labour and the Tories, the Brexit issue has infected politics in Scotland as well. It used to be pretty straightforward if you were a Unionist or a Nationalist. Now you have people on both sides with split loyalties on Brexit. Things should settle down once Brexit is resolved, but with 62% of Scotland voting to remain in the EU (a percentage which grows larger every day) independence is almost guaranteed if the UK follow through and leave.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is demanding another independence vote happen in 2020, rather than waiting until 2022. Polls now have independence at 50/50. As with Labour and the Tories, the Brexit issue has infected politics in Scotland as well. It used to be pretty straightforward if you were a Unionist or a Nationalist. Now you have people on both sides with split loyalties on Brexit. Things should settle down once Brexit is resolved, but with 62% of Scotland voting to remain in the EU (a percentage which grows larger every day) independence is almost guaranteed if the UK follow through and leave.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
I'm glad it puts them on the record. Just another (entirely forseeable) consequence of the English version of the Dump Tantrum.
I'm glad it puts them on the record. Just another (entirely forseeable) consequence of the English version of the Dump Tantrum.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
The DUP released a statement this morning that it cannot support the Brexit plan. This was always going to be the case. Unionists can't be swayed like the ERG by a promise that a yes vote will lead to no deal because it can't abide no deal either. There simply is no good answer to the Northern Ireland problem.
As expected, the ERG is 100% on board with whatever plan Boris puts before parliament. This will come as no surprise at all if you've read this thread but the British media seem perplexed. It isn't that difficult to figure out, you morons. If I could see this ploy weeks ago so should you.
BoJo is en route to Brussels for the summit. Any deal has to be agreed to by 2pm local time to allow for printing the deal and the EU leaders to formally respond. Parliament would then take up the deal Friday or Saturday. Macron is twisting the knife a little more, insisting that BoJo must concede that EU (read: France) will have unfettered access to UK waters for fishing.
The DUP released a statement this morning that it cannot support the Brexit plan. This was always going to be the case. Unionists can't be swayed like the ERG by a promise that a yes vote will lead to no deal because it can't abide no deal either. There simply is no good answer to the Northern Ireland problem.
As expected, the ERG is 100% on board with whatever plan Boris puts before parliament. This will come as no surprise at all if you've read this thread but the British media seem perplexed. It isn't that difficult to figure out, you morons. If I could see this ploy weeks ago so should you.
BoJo is en route to Brussels for the summit. Any deal has to be agreed to by 2pm local time to allow for printing the deal and the EU leaders to formally respond. Parliament would then take up the deal Friday or Saturday. Macron is twisting the knife a little more, insisting that BoJo must concede that EU (read: France) will have unfettered access to UK waters for fishing.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
parliament must be so proud to help the eu 'negotiate' here
parliament must be so proud to help the eu 'negotiate' here
ticapnews
Never Forget!
parliament must be so proud to help the eu 'negotiate' here
Not sure how you can blame parliament but OK. There was never going to be an acceptable deal. I know you can't or won't accept it, but the voters were sold a fantasy that somehow the UK would go from membership in a powerful trading bloc to single entity at a fraction of the size and yet still gain influence and wealth - and not just gain them, but get them overnight. That the issue of the border in Ireland would magically be solved, allegedly by technology although experts say that technology is a decade away. If the technology is ready and the resolution so simple, why have May and BoJo not deployed such technology on the island? Why have we not seen this wonderful technology at work, with BoJo and his Brexiteers trumpeting the success of such a system? Because it only exists in the imagination not reality. The entire campaign was a lie and the UK version of the FEC stated that if this were a binding resolution it would have thrown out the results, ordered a new election and chucked most of the Leave campaigners into jail. Considering it is a non-binding resolution it is baffling they are still going forward with it.
ticapnews
Never Forget!
Re: Brexit 2: Happy Halloween
These negotiations are a farce anyway. BoJo isn't looking for a deal. He wants a piece of paper he can put before parliament before he has to comply with the Benn Act. The odds remain high that no deal will be reached today and he'll have to fish May's deal from the waste bin and put that up.
These negotiations are a farce anyway. BoJo isn't looking for a deal. He wants a piece of paper he can put before parliament before he has to comply with the Benn Act. The odds remain high that no deal will be reached today and he'll have to fish May's deal from the waste bin and put that up.