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Brexit 2: Happy Halloween

211-148. BoJo wins.
This is beautiful. A worse result than John Major in 1995, Theresa May in 2018 and even Thatcher in 1990.
Let the Tory Party Civil War begin.
 
ticapnews said:
211-148. BoJo wins.
This is beautiful. A worse result than John Major in 1995, Theresa May in 2018 and even Thatcher in 1990.
Let the Tory Party Civil War begin.
Click to expand...
Is there enough votes in Parliament to defeat a supply bill?

(I understand this was a party vote and not a vote in Parliament)
 
Jimjamesak said:
Is there enough votes in Parliament to defeat a supply bill?

(I understand this was a party vote and not a vote in Parliament)
Click to expand...

Under normal conditions, no. The one thing that unites the Tories is love of money and hatred for the working class. Not sure now though. They would only need ~80 defections and there are 148 people pissed at Johnson. And people are paying attention. However, there's really nothing coming. The schedule is bare of any spending bills. There is an agriculture bill that will come up for vote, but no money involved. Should fly through. There are a couple of bills that have been proposed for next week with details not yet revealed. Maybe the Tories try something, but it would be a huge gamble. There could be enough that just want to embarrass Johnson. Or they may be looking to the next election and they want to be able to tell their voters they ditched Johnson. But aside from PMQs (which should be highly entertaining) it should be a quiet period. Parliament will be going on summer holidays soon, so the next big event will be the Conservative Party conference in September. Oh to be a fly on the wall in some of those rooms.

Of course, Labour has its own problems. Keir Starmer was apoplectic that BoJo didn't resign despite being fined for Partygate, and to contrast he has promised to resign if fined for his own scandal. Sometime this summer the Durham police are almost certain to announce fines for Starmer and Angela Rayner (#2 in Labour) which means they are both gone, triggering a leadership crisis.

I say let the SNP take over Westminster and see what Nicola Sturgeon can do as PM.
 
ticapnews said:
Under normal conditions, no. The one thing that unites the Tories is love of money and hatred for the working class. Not sure now though. They would only need ~80 defections and there are 148 people ****ed at Johnson. And people are paying attention. However, there's really nothing coming. The schedule is bare of any spending bills. There is an agriculture bill that will come up for vote, but no money involved. Should fly through. There are a couple of bills that have been proposed for next week with details not yet revealed. Maybe the Tories try something, but it would be a huge gamble. There could be enough that just want to embarrass Johnson. Or they may be looking to the next election and they want to be able to tell their voters they ditched Johnson. But aside from PMQs (which should be highly entertaining) it should be a quiet period. Parliament will be going on summer holidays soon, so the next big event will be the Conservative Party conference in September. Oh to be a fly on the wall in some of those rooms.

Of course, Labour has its own problems. Keir Starmer was apoplectic that BoJo didn't resign despite being fined for Partygate, and to contrast he has promised to resign if fined for his own scandal. Sometime this summer the Durham police are almost certain to announce fines for Starmer and Angela Rayner (#2 in Labour) which means they are both gone, triggering a leadership crisis.

I say let the SNP take over Westminster and see what Nicola Sturgeon can do as PM.
Click to expand...
My one comment was going to be "I can't wait to see how Labour screws this up".

I've got to think the only way Labour goes into power is through some huge coalition with the Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru, and the SDLP, since they can't win enough seats on their own (especially in England).
 
Jimjamesak said:
My one comment was going to be "I can't wait to see how Labour screws this up".

I've got to think the only way Labour goes into power is through some huge coalition with the Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru, and the SDLP, since they can't win enough seats on their own (especially in England).
Click to expand...

​​​​​​If (and that's a big if) the Conservatives fall in the next election, it will be a minority for Labour in Parliament and they will form a government with the Lib Dems. They have already made an informal agreement to stay out of each other's way in that election. They should have done that in 2019, especially after the Brexit party stepped aside in marginal Tory districts. Even though both Labour and the Tories got the same % of the vote nationwide, the Tories got a huge majority because Labour and Lib Dems split the vote in many districts, allowing Tories to win by small amount.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Why are liberal politicians so universally incompetent?
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Because they are by definition a half measure. The Right has a belief and they go with it like a dog with a bone. The Left has a belief... and the liberals will worry and hand wring about "looking too extreme" and "alienating Middle America," and cutting off their donor funding.

So liberal policies are always self-contradictory. Abortion is essential health care! Cool, so that means universal availability and free provision for the poor, no questions asked, right? (crickets) Wealth Inequality is a lethal enemy to democratic institutions! Cool, so that means restoring New Deal era tax rates up to 91% top marginal rate, and aggressive policies to break the cycle of inherited wealth, ight? (gasps)
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Liberal meaning anyone on the left
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Not anyone, just the "serious" people.

The Left was effectively neutered in the 70s, and since then the Overton Window has moved relentlessly to the Right.

Even if you hate my Proudhonian-Bukaninese as-s, YOU NEED ME ON THAT WALL as a counterweight to the lunatics on the Right.
 
Jimjamesak said:
Yeah, despite their best efforts in the 90’s I wouldn’t describe the Labour Party as “liberal”.
Click to expand...

It's classically liberal, in the sense of "bourgeoise who inevitably sell out disadvantaged groups out in exchange for some light petting and a few social issue draperies, while giving away the whole essential economic store to the wealthy who -- purely accidentally you understand -- they actually intersect with." Tony Blair and Bill Clinton are textbook liberals.

Which is FINE as long as there is an authentic Left to keep them honest. FDR wasn't a pinwheel-eyed socialist, he was moved by pragmatic political considerations. Likewise LBJ. I'm not dreaming of a Socialist government taking power in the US. All I ask is for is the same coopted Democratic party but having to mind their Left flank as much as their Right.
 
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