Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

[aparch]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Okay... NOW I'm worried about Axford. Really doesn't look like the Axman from two years ago, or even the one from the end of last season. The Rockies are absolutely smashing each and every pitch Axford has thrown tonight.

Lingering injury he won't disclose? Mechanics issue? Maybe just something between his ears?


I don't want to give up on him yet, but...

 

[aparch]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Any chance we could sign this guy away from the Dodgers?
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=t342&t=p_pbp&pid=493247

 

[icebadger]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Okay... NOW I'm worried about Axford. Really doesn't look like the Axman from two years ago, or even the one from the end of last season. The Rockies are absolutely smashing each and every pitch Axford has thrown tonight.

Lingering injury he won't disclose? Mechanics issue? Maybe just something between his ears?


I don't want to give up on him yet, but...

It always seems like closers (aside from the greats) only have a 1-2 year window of dominance. Turnbow, now Axford. His fastball is straight as a string and easy to hit if you're looking for it (easy to do when he can't throw anything offspeed for a strike). If he figures it out consistently this year, I will be surprised...and happy.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that Braun not only doped, but lied and continues to lie about it to us like we're all some bunch of idiots? Guy needs to stick to the clothing line, because the integrity game obviously ain't his thing.

 

[jen]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

That was absolutely effing miserable... ugh.

How is it that they already really need an offday... in the first week of the season?

Kyle Lohse pitches tomorrow! I am trying to get excited.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

That was absolutely effing miserable... ugh.

How is it that they already really need an offday... in the first week of the season?

Kyle Lohse pitches tomorrow! I am trying to get excited.

I'll be there tomorrow and Saturday. Hopefully they play better with me in the building.

 

[icebadger]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Am I the only one who is bothered by the fact that Braun not only doped, but lied and continues to lie about it to us like we're all some bunch of idiots? Guy needs to stick to the clothing line, because the integrity game obviously ain't his thing.

I'll be the devil's advocate here...he's never failed a test. There are a lot of shady things that suggest doping, but technically he's never failed a test. The technicality being that you don't legally fail a test until after your appeal is exhausted. Prior to this Miami clinic saga, I fully believed Braun and not the shady test collector named Dino who couldn't do his job and possibly intentionally contaminated Braun's sample. With Biogenesis now, I'm extremely suspicious. But he's still producing and he's not breaking down post-juicing like everyone else. Just the other side...

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

I'll be the devil's advocate here...he's never failed a test. There are a lot of shady things that suggest doping, but technically he's never failed a test. The technicality being that you don't legally fail a test until after your appeal is exhausted. Prior to this Miami clinic saga, I fully believed Braun and not the shady test collector named Dino who couldn't do his job and possibly intentionally contaminated Braun's sample. With Biogenesis now, I'm extremely suspicious. But he's still producing and he's not breaking down post-juicing like everyone else. Just the other side...

I'm in a similar place as you. I don't really know what we should expect of Ryan Braun. His reactions to everything would be expected to be the same whether he is juicing or not. The biogenesis stuff could have been a mistake he made a long time ago while playing in college. I highly doubt it had anything to do with his appeal like he said, but what do we really expect him to say?

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

His name needs to stop coming up in these situations.

Guilty or not, I don't look at him the same way anymore although I'm not one to put athletes on pedestals anyway, so it's not like he's fallen far in my eyes.

Like most though, I want the people that play for my teams to be upstanding, good guys.


If his name never comes up again, in a few years, this should be a footnote.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

I'll be the devil's advocate here...he's never failed a test. There are a lot of shady things that suggest doping, but technically he's never failed a test.

Just like Lance Armstrong, 98% of cyclists who have doped over the past 20 years, and most of the systematic dopers in MLB, NFL, top-level European soccer, tennis, rugby and so on. Lack of a failed test means nothing.

The technicality being that you don't legally fail a test until after your appeal is exhausted. Prior to this Miami clinic saga, I fully believed Braun and not the shady test collector named Dino who couldn't do his job and possibly intentionally contaminated Braun's sample.

While that guy was obviously beyond incompetent, it doesn't change the fact there was synthetic testosterone in the sample anmd sorry but that didn't come from a Powerade. Naturally the appeal didn't address this, but rather it contested on chain of custody issues which is standard in a lot of legal challenges of scientific samples and analysis of any sort because it's by far the easy to succeed with. The story about the guy possibly spiking the sample is preposterous and the textbook sort of idea that a defense will float to enhance public opinion. Obviously it has worked to some extent.

With Biogenesis now, I'm extremely suspicious. But he's still producing and he's not breaking down post-juicing like everyone else. Just the other side...

Doping is so far ingrained in our sports it's probably better than most people aren't aware of what all goes on as it's completely demoralizing. I never believed in Lance Armstrong, I don't believe in miracles, I don't believe in unicorns and I don't believe Ryan Braun for a second. The guy is a doper, fine. So are thousands of others, but don't get up there and lie, repeatedly, to me like I'm some sort of idiot. Give me a break.

Whatever happened to the rumored herpes medication defense, anyway? Guess that one didn't test so well with the masses. Ah well, throw enough garbage at the wall of popular perception and one will stick eventually...

 

[icebadger]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

Just like Lance Armstrong, 98% of cyclists who have doped over the past 20 years, and most of the systematic dopers in MLB, NFL, top-level European soccer, tennis, rugby and so on. Lack of a failed test means nothing.



While that guy was obviously beyond incompetent, it doesn't change the fact there was synthetic testosterone in the sample anmd sorry but that didn't come from a Powerade. Naturally the appeal didn't address this, but rather it contested on chain of custody issues which is standard in a lot of legal challenges of scientific samples and analysis of any sort because it's by far the easy to succeed with. The story about the guy possibly spiking the sample is preposterous and the textbook sort of idea that a defense will float to enhance public opinion. Obviously it has worked to some extent.



Doping is so far ingrained in our sports it's probably better than most people aren't aware of what all goes on as it's completely demoralizing. I never believed in Lance Armstrong, I don't believe in miracles, I don't believe in unicorns and I don't believe Ryan Braun for a second. The guy is a doper, fine. So are thousands of others, but don't get up there and lie, repeatedly, to me like I'm some sort of idiot. Give me a break.

Whatever happened to the rumored herpes medication defense, anyway? Guess that one didn't test so well with the masses. Ah well, throw enough garbage at the wall of popular perception and one will stick eventually...

All good points. I believed Lance for a long time as well before I understood the machinations of the testing process and his attempts to obfuscate the system. Do I think the collector for Braun's sample intentionally sabotaged it? Sure, it's a possibility. Can the Biogenesis thing be explained away as a consultant for the appeal (and potentially the leak of the positive test)? Sure. Do I think that is what happened? Unlikely, but possible. Do I want to believe it because the guy in question is on my team? Heck yeah.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

The guy is a doper, fine. So are thousands of others, but don't get up there and lie, repeatedly, to me like I'm some sort of idiot. Give me a break.

So you want him to get up there, admit to anything and everything that he may have done, take the suspensions, loss of income and everything else that would go with it without anyone proving that he did these things?

There aren't too many people in any walk of life who would do that.

Get real.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

So you want him to get up there, admit to anything and everything that he may have done, take the suspensions, loss of income and everything else that would go with it without anyone proving that he did these things?

There aren't too many people in any walk of life who would do that.

Get real.

In all honesty he would have been better off taking the Andy Pettitte approach and admitting to checking out PEDs while at college (explaining the biogenisis papers) but realizing that was not the right path for him and holding firm that the Dino guy tampered with his sample, which is all about what chain of custody is suppose to prevent. But the fact that the biogenisis stuff came to light way to close to the "failed" drug test results appeal for it to matter. MLB's response to the appeal result makes you wonder if its at all plausible that someone disgruntled about the appeal result could have possibly done something to involve Braun's name in biogenisis. It's a very uncomfortable situation for most of us Brewer fans. You want to win, but you want to win the right way. Braun has been adamant that he didn't cheat but it does bother me just how hollow his reason for coming up in the biogenisis papers was. That answer doesn't make any sense to me. It seems Braun would have been better off like I said, or just saying I really have no idea why my name would come up there.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

So you want him to get up there, admit to anything and everything that he may have done, take the suspensions, loss of income and everything else that would go with it without anyone proving that he did these things?

There aren't too many people in any walk of life who would do that.

Get real.

As opposed to lie to everyone repeatedly? From a decency and integrity standpoint, yes. Not that I expect a sudden bout of courage from someone who is a big enough coward to dope up in the first place. And that all applies to anyone, not just Braun.

And stop with the no proof talk. He failed the test and got off on a technicality. The dope was in his system....deal with it.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

And stop with the no proof talk. He failed the test and got off on a technicality. The dope was in his system....deal with it.

The lab sample failed a test. If there is one thing I know about chain of custody, that is a big difference than proving the source of the sample would fail a test based on a broken chain of custody.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

As opposed to lie to everyone repeatedly? From a decency and integrity standpoint, yes. Not that I expect a sudden bout of courage from someone who is a big enough coward to dope up in the first place. And that all applies to anyone, not just Braun.

And stop with the no proof talk. He failed the test and got off on a technicality. The dope was in his system....deal with it.

I have dealt with it. I posted it up above.

Seems that you haven't "dealt with it."

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

In all honesty he would have been better off taking the Andy Pettitte approach and admitting to checking out PEDs while at college (explaining the biogenisis papers) but realizing that was not the right path for him and holding firm that the Dino guy tampered with his sample, which is all about what chain of custody is suppose to prevent. But the fact that the biogenisis stuff came to light way to close to the "failed" drug test results appeal for it to matter. MLB's response to the appeal result makes you wonder if its at all plausible that someone disgruntled about the appeal result could have possibly done something to involve Braun's name in biogenisis. It's a very uncomfortable situation for most of us Brewer fans. You want to win, but you want to win the right way. Braun has been adamant that he didn't cheat but it does bother me just how hollow his reason for coming up in the biogenisis papers was. That answer doesn't make any sense to me. It seems Braun would have been better off like I said, or just saying I really have no idea why my name would come up there.

I want to agree with you. You're not wrong.

I just don't see it as realistic at this point. If he did do anything, shame on him and I hope he doesn't any more.

But as with all of my teams, I root for the logo on the front, not the name on the back. I'm not going to stop being a Brewer fan or be made to feel bad about my team because some opposing fan has a beef with the whole deal.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

But as with all of my teams, I root for the logo on the front, not the name on the back. I'm not going to stop being a Brewer fan or be made to feel bad about my team because some opposing fan has a beef with the whole deal.

I'm not contending you should, but watching all these clowns get up there and repeatedly lie really kills my interest in paying them any mind at all from a cheering/support standpoint. Ah well, Molitor was a cokehead so this has been going on forever.

Btw, if you don't want to fail a test, just go with: 2IU hGH eod, occasional 10-15mg i.v. T (earlier) or 25mg transdermal for just a couple of hours or maybe even red eggs, maybe 20-40,000IU p.a. EPO.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

The lab sample failed a test. If there is one thing I know about chain of custody, that is a big difference than proving the source of the sample would fail a test based on a broken chain of custody.

I admit, I fail to comprehend your exact point here.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Brewers 2011 - Yo...Marcum for the post-season or jen may get a little Greinke

2011 season will finally come to an end.