Bowdoin ?

[Arete19]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

I think you overstate the impact of western Canadian players on the "western" D3 teams, both in terms of their numerical presence on rosters and the influence on style of play. Certainly a few of the top teams - particularly St. Norbert, Scholastica, and Superior - rely heavily on talent from the Canadian prairie provinces (and BC). However, the vast majority of players on MIAC and NCHA rosters (I don't know much about the MCHA teams) hail from the surrounding states such as Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and North Dakota.

SNC is still perceived to be a team full of players from Western Canada, but over the past 4-5 years the recruiting base has diversified significantly due to the increased respresentation from players in the NAHL and, to a lesser extent, USHL & European leagues.

SNC Roster
Saskatchewan, CA - 3
Alberta, CA - 3
Ontario, CA - 3
British Columbia, CA - 1
Wisconsin, US - 3
Minnesota, US - 3
Michigan, US - 2
Alaska, US - 2
North Dakota, US - 1
Iowa, US - 1
Ohio, US - 1
Arizona, US - 1
Utah, US - 1
Sweden - 2

Canada = 10
United States = 15
Europe = 2

Oswego appears to be heavily reliant on our neighbors to the North.

Oswego State Roster
Ontario, CA - 20
New York, US - 5
Ohio, US - 1
California, US - 1
Illinios, US - 1

Canada = 20
United States = 8

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin ?

I love Division III hockey as much for the Norwich team I support but because I sense all the players are motivated less by any illusions of where college hockey might take their career but more out of love of the sport and its competition. They have it right.

How about the fans? Aren't we missing the point of college hockey at the D3 level? Right now time, my alma mater charges each student $47,000+ a year in tuition to get an education. I'd like to believe that our players are there for an education and not just to play hockey, especially to play in some long protracted series of playoff games to satisfy fans and alum's lust to somehow determine, who is the most perfect and deserving champion.

Without digressing to far afield, years ago I decided I can't be bothered with NCAA Division I sports of every stripe because they had lost their way with their sell out to the TV networks, the NBA, NHL, NFL, Nike, Gatoraid, Viagra, Bud and a long list of others all at the expense of the athletes and students. Remember the basketball player, who sued his school (UN Las Vegas) because after being cut as a NBA rookie, he admitted he couldn't read and held UNLV responsible that he couldn't find a job.

I agree, we have an imperfect playoff system in Division III hockey but before fixing it we need to be sure that the fix doesn't have unintended consequences on the primary mission--education.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Bowdoin ?

I love Division III hockey as much for the Norwich team I support but because I sense all the players are motivated less by any illusions of where college hockey might take their career but more out of love of the sport and its competition. They have it right.

How about the fans? Aren't we missing the point of college hockey at the D3 level? Right now time, my alma mater charges each student $47,000+ a year in tuition to get an education. I'd like to believe that our players are there for an education and not just to play hockey, especially to play in some long protracted series of playoff games to satisfy fans and alum's lust to somehow determine, who is the most perfect and deserving champion.

Without digressing to far afield, years ago I decided I can't be bothered with NCAA Division I sports of every stripe because they had lost their way with their sell out to the TV networks, the NBA, NHL, NFL, Nike, Gatoraid, Viagra, Bud and a long list of others all at the expense of the athletes and students. Remember the basketball player, who sued his school (UN Las Vegas) because after being cut as a NBA rookie, he admitted he couldn't read and held UNLV responsible that he couldn't find a job.

I agree, we have an imperfect playoff system in Division III hockey but before fixing it we need to be sure that the fix doesn't have unintended consequences on the primary mission--education.

Dang, you must have learned how to think somewhere Very well stated and well reasoned.

I am one who is not caught up in the hoopla that is DI "college" athletics.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Dang, you must have learned how to think somewhere Very well stated and well reasoned.

I am one who is not caught up in the hoopla that is DI "college" athletics.

Thanks. And I agree. Why watch Division I sports, when you can wait a year or two while the NBA, NHL, NFL et. al can sorted out the wheat from the chaff to see a fully homogenized, well packaged television extravaganza that includes professional cheerleaders and highly paid mascots.

Hope to meet you in LP. I shall be wearing my Maroon & Gold: Old Rook hat.

 

[peddler]

Re: Bowdoin ?

I love Division III hockey as much for the Norwich team I support but because I sense all the players are motivated less by any illusions of where college hockey might take their career but more out of love of the sport and its competition. They have it right.

How about the fans? Aren't we missing the point of college hockey at the D3 level? Right now time, my alma mater charges each student $47,000+ a year in tuition to get an education. I'd like to believe that our players are there for an education and not just to play hockey, especially to play in some long protracted series of playoff games to satisfy fans and alum's lust to somehow determine, who is the most perfect and deserving champion.

Without digressing to far afield, years ago I decided I can't be bothered with NCAA Division I sports of every stripe because they had lost their way with their sell out to the TV networks, the NBA, NHL, NFL, Nike, Gatoraid, Viagra, Bud and a long list of others all at the expense of the athletes and students. Remember the basketball player, who sued his school (UN Las Vegas) because after being cut as a NBA rookie, he admitted he couldn't read and held UNLV responsible that he couldn't find a job.

I agree, we have an imperfect playoff system in Division III hockey but before fixing it we need to be sure that the fix doesn't have unintended consequences on the primary mission--education.

Interesting item found on the NCAA website: Annual revenues $710 million (and change). 90% from "television & marketing rights and fees".

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Interesting item found on the NCAA website: Annual revenues $710 million (and change). 90% from "television & marketing rights and fees".

Let's not be hypocritical here -- that 90% helps pay for our tournament.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Let's not be hypocritical here -- that 90% helps pay for our tournament.

Yeah, they give 40% of the athletes 3.16% of the revenue.

 

[peddler]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Yeah, they give 40% of the athletes 3.16% of the revenue.

Did you actually find that math somewhere, or did you make it up?

 

[NUProf]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Did you actually find that math somewhere, or did you make it up?

You know I would never make up math. All available on the NCAA DIII (ncaa.org) website. They actually brag about the 3.16% allocation, and by looking at the data they supplied I computed the percentage of athletes in DIII out of all NCAA athletes. (It's actually 38%, so a small exaggeration there)

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Yeah, they give 40% of the athletes 3.16% of the revenue.

But it still pays for our tournament...

 

[peddler]

Re: Bowdoin ?

You know I would never make up math. All available on the NCAA DIII (ncaa.org) website. They actually brag about the 3.16% allocation, and by looking at the data they supplied I computed the percentage of athletes in DIII out of all NCAA athletes. (It's actually 38%, so a small exaggeration there)

I wonder how that compares to the "revenues" generated by DIII?

 

[ColdInRomney]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Did you actually find that math somewhere, or did you make it up?

84% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[cooperalls]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Old Rook I have to laugh at your statement because most of them hockey kids going to school for that outstanding Norwich education are going there for less than $10,000 a year so let's be real about the situation up there and the financial aid that some of those kids are getting for a Div. III school is crazy.

Now guys that pay tuition to go to an NCAA Div. I school those guys are going for the education.

Also why does Norwich still insist on calling themselves the Cadets when there really aren't any cadets on the roster except for maybe one or two? Got money buy yourselves a team and yet you are telling us that they come there for the education come on man Norwich's entrance requirements used to be 800 on your SAT's. It may have gone up since but don't come on here and tell us that those guys on the hockey team are getting the same type of education that that you got at Norwich since I have to assume that with the name Old Rook that you were in the Corps of Cadets and the experience has to be completely different for someone who is in the Corps compared to going to the school as a civilian.

It's like Plattsburgh and Oswego I heard that the kids get free room and board to go to school there since State schools can't give federal financial aid and most state schools tuition is cheaper but they normally don't have much to give anyways. Pretty good deal if you ask me no wonder they have pretty good programs. What is really impressive is that the Women's team has won the ECAC East tournament title the last two years and is in the Frozen Four in just their third season as a varsity. So Norwich fans have two teams to cheer for this weekend so good luck to you Old Rook and NU Prof!

I love Division III hockey as much for the Norwich team I support but because I sense all the players are motivated less by any illusions of where college hockey might take their career but more out of love of the sport and its competition. They have it right.

How about the fans? Aren't we missing the point of college hockey at the D3 level? Right now time, my alma mater charges each student $47,000+ a year in tuition to get an education. I'd like to believe that our players are there for an education and not just to play hockey, especially to play in some long protracted series of playoff games to satisfy fans and alum's lust to somehow determine, who is the most perfect and deserving champion.

Without digressing to far afield, years ago I decided I can't be bothered with NCAA Division I sports of every stripe because they had lost their way with their sell out to the TV networks, the NBA, NHL, NFL, Nike, Gatoraid, Viagra, Bud and a long list of others all at the expense of the athletes and students. Remember the basketball player, who sued his school (UN Las Vegas) because after being cut as a NBA rookie, he admitted he couldn't read and held UNLV responsible that he couldn't find a job.

I agree, we have an imperfect playoff system in Division III hockey but before fixing it we need to be sure that the fix doesn't have unintended consequences on the primary mission--education.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Old Rook I have to laugh at your statement because most of them hockey kids going to school for that outstanding Norwich education are going there for less than $10,000 a year so let's be real about the situation up there and the financial aid that some of those kids are getting for a Div. III school is crazy.

Now guys that pay tuition to go to an NCAA Div. I school those guys are going for the education.

Also why does Norwich still insist on calling themselves the Cadets when there really aren't any cadets on the roster except for maybe one or two? Got money buy yourselves a team and yet you are telling us that they come there for the education come on man Norwich's entrance requirements used to be 800 on your SAT's. It may have gone up since but don't come on here and tell us that those guys on the hockey team are getting the same type of education that that you got at Norwich since I have to assume that with the name Old Rook that you were in the Corps of Cadets and the experience has to be completely different for someone who is in the Corps compared to going to the school as a civilian.

It's like Plattsburgh and Oswego I heard that the kids get free room and board to go to school there since State schools can't give federal financial aid and most state schools tuition is cheaper but they normally don't have much to give anyways. Pretty good deal if you ask me no wonder they have pretty good programs. What is really impressive is that the Women's team has won the ECAC East tournament title the last two years and is in the Frozen Four in just their third season as a varsity. So Norwich fans have two teams to cheer for this weekend so good luck to you Old Rook and NU Prof!

International students at Oswego receive excellent financial packages to come to Oswego whether or not you play a sport.

And yes state schools do give out federal financial aid...care to see how much Federal Stafford Loans I have as an alumni of/current student at Oswego?

Excellent financial packages do not automatically mean you should have pretty good programs. See Geneseo and, more so, Buff State as examples of schools that offer good financial packages but do not have as storied a program as an Oswego or Plattsburgh.

 

[osuhockeyfan]

Re: Bowdoin ?

International students at Oswego receive excellent financial packages to come to Oswego whether or not you play a sport.

And yes state schools do give out federal financial aid...care to see how much Federal Stafford Loans I have as an alumni of/current student at Oswego?

Excellent financial packages do not automatically mean you should have pretty good programs. See Geneseo and, more so, Buff State as examples of schools that offer good financial packages but do not have as storied a program as an Oswego or Plattsburgh.

Financial aid my ***, I got squat. I made myself graduate early just so that I would have less to pay back in loans.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Financial aid my ***, I got squat. I made myself graduate early just so that I would have less to pay back in loans.

Call it what you want...loans are financial aid.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Bowdoin ?

He might be thinking of grants instead of loans.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Bowdoin ?

International students at Oswego receive excellent financial packages to come to Oswego whether or not you play a sport.

And yes state schools do give out federal financial aid...care to see how much Federal Stafford Loans I have as an alumni of/current student at Oswego?

Excellent financial packages do not automatically mean you should have pretty good programs. See Geneseo and, more so, Buff State as examples of schools that offer good financial packages but do not have as storied a program as an Oswego or Plattsburgh.

I am sure Russel can correct me on this but Buff State just got on the main stream bandwagon of FA over the past decade. They may have offered it, but its nothing like the package you see at either Oswego and Plattsburgh. While it does take more then money, what kind of a year would it have been for Plattsburgh if they had a play maker like Justin Fox with Clark and Satim, or Farrow and Wilock...the $numbers$ just were not there, and they were at Oswego. Its all legal and all with in the system. It just depends if the school has enough to make it go around to everyone...

And yes it does take a lot more then a $$$, but you ask any major coach and pretty much the first words out of the parents mouth it..how must is it going to cost....but coaches like Gosek and Emery spend hours upon hours on the road Im sure looking at kids, while other coachs can only see a few games/tournements in a season..

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Old Rook I have to laugh at your statement because most of them hockey kids going to school for that outstanding Norwich education are going there for less than $10,000 a year so let's be real about the situation up there and the financial aid that some of those kids are getting for a Div. III school is crazy.

Now guys that pay tuition to go to an NCAA Div. I school those guys are going for the education.

Also why does Norwich still insist on calling themselves the Cadets when there really aren't any cadets on the roster except for maybe one or two? Got money buy yourselves a team and yet you are telling us that they come there for the education come on man Norwich's entrance requirements used to be 800 on your SAT's. It may have gone up since but don't come on here and tell us that those guys on the hockey team are getting the same type of education that that you got at Norwich since I have to assume that with the name Old Rook that you were in the Corps of Cadets and the experience has to be completely different for someone who is in the Corps compared to going to the school as a civilian.

It's like Plattsburgh and Oswego I heard that the kids get free room and board to go to school there since State schools can't give federal financial aid and most state schools tuition is cheaper but they normally don't have much to give anyways. Pretty good deal if you ask me no wonder they have pretty good programs. What is really impressive is that the Women's team has won the ECAC East tournament title the last two years and is in the Frozen Four in just their third season as a varsity. So Norwich fans have two teams to cheer for this weekend so good luck to you Old Rook and NU Prof!

A month ago during the Skidmore game I sat with the President of Norwich discussing these issues, e.g. hockey, students but most of all the cost of education. “The bottom line,” He replied, “Is that what student’s pay versus what our education cost is not even comparable”

He reminded me, as the Wall Street Journal had reported, that over a decade ago Norwich took an entirely different tact regarding financial aid by offering financial assistance based high school academic standings and rather than need. In NU’s mind there was more than enough dough in government subsidies, minority scholarships and low interest loans running around to address those “in need”.

This novel Norwich approach of aid based on high school excellence was innovative as it meant that all students-including student/athletes-with superior high school marks were rewarded with proportionately more aid. The net impact is that today we have better students with over 90% of them (not just hockey players) getting some sort of financial aid.

Are the hockey players any good in the classroom as their peers? I assume they are as close to 50% of those players are studying math, engineering or science--no easy task at Norwich. What’s more the graduation rate among players I believe exceeds the rest of the school.

And yes, about two thirds of NU undergraduates are indeed in the Corp of Cadets but only one or two hockey players are from the Corp. Cadet Ryan Klingensmith—now the leading Division III goalie was a walk on four years ago from the Corp. But I am glad you pointed that out as you seem determined to somehow divide the values of the NU military and civilian student communities—when it is the Corp where the bulk of the financial aid you seem to know so much about, is actually going. Excluding the service academies, I think you will discover that NU gets more Defense Department funds for military scholarships than any other school in the nation (or close to it). And again other than the Federal academies Norwich commissions more youngsters--all of whom have to give back to “our community” with between four and six years of national service depending on their contract.

Community service not unlike that young Army 1st Lieutenant from Norwich and reported here on another USCHOL thread a few weeks ago and how she left her leg buried in Afghanistan. She also left her husband, another Norwich cadet in Afghanistan, to finish his own tour.

So do you really want to write her and tell her that this Norwich hockey team does not represent her, that it does not represent her school or her Corp of Cadets—but above all they should not be called Cadets?

Now, have a nice day.

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Bowdoin ?

The Student body, when asked, wanted all teams to be "The Cadets". So be it. I would not be so fast to talk down a Norwich degree. More than one of our current players were recruited by teams in the NESCAC and chose NU. My Norwich degree stood me well in the business world. I forefilled my obligation to Uncle Sam and joined the business world, anyway don't be so quick to down grade the education we offer here.