Bowdoin ?

[gscott13]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Bowdoin's top goal scorer Jeff Fanning was out due to a game DQ in the NESCAC championship game and one of the better d-men (Kyle Hanson) was out due to an injury in the NESCAC semi-finals. Also the Bowdoin starting goalie Chris Rossi injured his knee after the third goal but was not pulled until after he had allowed two more goals. Be that it at may, I don't think that the absence of any of either player or the injury to Rossi mattered in terms of affecting anything other than perhaps Oswego's margin of victory. Oswego is an amazing team and was very on for Saturday's game - it probably would have beaten any D3 team on Saturday.

exactly, on all counts...

at the end of the day, bowdoin played terribly and oswego was firing on all cylinders... does it make bowdoin a bad team, not at all. does it illustrate how talented oswego is, and what can happen if you do not bring your best to face them, absolutely...

 

[westscout]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Russell,

In all due respect, the reason you feel that my post are assine, are because you have been drinking the same Easter Kool-Aide that the NCAA committee is drinking.

I have hard time seeing any of the 4 Western Teams getting beat 9-2 by anybody.

All I am saying is that a team getting a bye to the Q-finals and getting blown out like that is a joke!

Oswego was not tested at all and now they get to play SNC who has played two pressure cooker games! If they don't win vs. SNC it will be even more of joke. They essentially got a bye to the Frozen Four. It is hard to argue this point.

I know you are an expert and know it all, but this format needs to change.

Westscout

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Russell,

In all due respect, the reason you feel that my post are assine, are because you have been drinking the same Easter Kool-Aide that the NCAA committee is drinking.

I have hard time seeing any of the 4 Western Teams getting beat 9-2 by anybody.

All I am saying is that a team getting a bye to the Q-finals and getting blown out like that is a joke!

Oswego was not tested at all and now they get to play SNC who has played two pressure cooker games! If they don't win vs. SNC it will be even more of joke. They essentially got a bye to the Frozen Four. It is hard to argue this point.

I know you are an expert and know it all, but this format needs to change.

Westscout

Have you seen any of the eastern teams, particularly the 5 that got the byes and Elmira, in person this season? I'm guessing not, and that means you know EXACTLY as much about how the 4 Western teams would have matched up against any of the Eastern Tourny teams as we do... which for most of us is absolutely nothing.

 

[westscout]

Re: Bowdoin ?

I was at the Prime Link the last three years following the West, by the way I love the venues! This year I know that Norwich is great. I also know that Oswego is great, but the West is very under appreciated. Stout was terrible out at the event this year. They did not represent well. I don't understand why they did not fly, but that is another topic. The last two teams did very well. SJU and STU lost tight games and were in the thick of things.

Great tourney and one that to me is essentially the same thing as the NCAA Tourney right now.

The EIT....Eastern Invitational Tourney.

Westscout...

 

[osuhockeyfan]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Russell,

In all due respect, the reason you feel that my post are assine, are because you have been drinking the same Easter Kool-Aide that the NCAA committee is drinking.

I have hard time seeing any of the 4 Western Teams getting beat 9-2 by anybody.

All I am saying is that a team getting a bye to the Q-finals and getting blown out like that is a joke!

Oswego was not tested at all and now they get to play SNC who has played two pressure cooker games! If they don't win vs. SNC it will be even more of joke. They essentially got a bye to the Frozen Four. It is hard to argue this point.

I know you are an expert and know it all, but this format needs to change.

Westscout

9-2 it isn't but earlier in the year the Lakers were brave enough to face one of your Western 4 teams and I'm pretty sure this is what happened.

 

[elbojpb]

Over-rated

Over-rated

All I am saying is that a team getting a bye to the Q-finals and getting blown out like that is a joke!

The NESCAC were the recipients of a fairly imbalanced interlock this season. Having 6 of the top 11 teams ranked by the NCAA in the 3/2 poll consequently skewed the entire process by biasing both the winning %, and ranked opponent metrics. Save your mathematical justifications, they just don't cut it. The proof is in the results.

If the inter-regional games would count, and more inter-conference games were possible, this cluster-@#$% of a selection process wouldn't exist to the same degree. Unfortunately, it is what it is despite our bemoaning the process to an insane degree.

 

[Stormy8174]

Re: Bowdoin ?

I think it had been mentioned somewhere else on the boards someplace but just based solely on the number of teams in the east and the west, proportionally, a 7-4 split was and should not look like a bad split. I'm all for the best of the west vs the best of the east in the semis and championship game but I find nothing wrong with having 3 teams represent the east and 1 from the west based on the proportional number of teams. I'm not saying Bowdoin should or should not have gotten in but why argue about it when Bowdoin (5th eastern ranked) had a similar record, not looking at SOS or anything else (because that seemed pretty close) as St. Scholastica, the third ranked western team. [this all using the NCAA March 2nd rankings] Adrian was only ranked because the got an automatic qualifier this year otherwise the west would have possibly seem still 4-5 teams in it. I really think having Adrian in the tournament really seemed to "screw over" the west as seemingly more pronounced teams got left out. -and no I'm not making a jab at Adrian.

 

[93GreatLaker]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Russell,

I have hard time seeing any of the 4 Western Teams getting beat 9-2 by anybody.

St. Thomas was beaten by 8 goals by Stout. We in the East all know how good Stout was this year

 

[fan for life]

Bowdoin

Bowdoin

Having watched the east and west I appreciate the frustration in the west with the apparent eastern bias in the playoff scheduling. There is no way that mathematical playoffs will ever pass the smell test.

Most western teams have a tougher style, probably because they attract many student athletes from the AJHL, SJHL and the BCHL. The leagues are known for a deep talent pool of offensive and defensive players. I agree with those that say it would be much more interesting to see each of the west teams play a team from the east, instead of hammering it out against each other and reaching the final 4 tired and wounded.

The east has a run and gun style and the teams attract IMO less physical players who skate their way out of trouble when they can.

Regarding Bowdoin, they met the criteria and earned the right to play Oswego. Hopefully this experience will be exactly what they need to prepare them for success next year. I fully agree with CARDS_RULE_THE_BURGH, Bowdoin or any team that isn't playing well at this time of year will be embarassed by a team in full playoff mode.

PS If Div III hockey had a true playoff there would be more dark horse teams in the final four, but everyone playing would have earned the honour.

GO POLAR BEARS

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

If Div III hockey had a true playoff there would be more dark horse teams in the final four, but everyone playing would have earned the honour.

I am not sure what you mean that a true playoff would have more dark horse teams in the final four but all would have earned the honor?

What you mean by a dark horse? And how they earn the honor to be in the final four?

 

[Jumbolaya]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

Most western teams have a tougher style, probably because they attract many student athletes from the AJHL, SJHL and the BCHL. The leagues are known for a deep talent pool of offensive and defensive players. I agree with those that say it would be much more interesting to see each of the west teams play a team from the east, instead of hammering it out against each other and reaching the final 4 tired and wounded.

I think you overstate the impact of western Canadian players on the "western" D3 teams, both in terms of their numerical presence on rosters and the influence on style of play. Certainly a few of the top teams - particularly St. Norbert, Scholastica, and Superior - rely heavily on talent from the Canadian prairie provinces (and BC). However, the vast majority of players on MIAC and NCHA rosters (I don't know much about the MCHA teams) hail from the surrounding states such as Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois and North Dakota.

I grew up playing in both Minnesota and New England, and the Minnesota style of play (if you can truly characterize an entire state's teams) is not significantly more physical than what you find in the Northeastern U.S. If anything, the biggest difference I noticed was that Minnesotans, particularly in the northern part of the state, tended toward more of a freelancing, less system-oriented style of play (pond hockey, if you will). And certainly this could have changed some over the ensuing 20-some years since I left the state, with kids playing nearly year-round on organized teams.

 

[laker30]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Please stop. Oswego crushed Bowdoin. Western guys lets talk after Friday. Good Luck and I hope you don’t spend a lot of money traveling to LP unless you like to watch great hockey even when your team gets eliminated.


Watch The OSU Great Lakers Sat. March 20th in the National Championship Game Live on CBS Sports Net.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Yes, yes--I understand that there maybe a difference in style of play or no difference at all. It is not unlike the argument that Latin and Mediterranean soccer teams play a faster more wide open game of soccer than their slower Norther European opponents.

But that doesn't answer my earlier question.

What does "fan for life" mean that a true playoff would have more dark horse teams in the final four but all would have earned the honor?

What is a dark horse other than a dark horse that no body has ever heard of? Isn't that why they are called dark horses? And how does a dark horse earn the honor to be in the final four?

I mean does some team show up at the NCAAs and announce, "Surprise guys. We are the boyz from Humpty Dumpty A&M who have earned the honor of being in the Frozen Four because we swept everyone in the Southwest Avocado Growers Association and College Hockey Conference?"

It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Please stop. Oswego crushed Bowdoin. Western guys lets talk after Friday. Good Luck and I hope you don’t spend a lot of money traveling to LP unless you like to watch great hockey even when your team gets eliminated.


Watch The OSU Great Lakers Sat. March 20th in the National Championship Game Live on CBS Sports Net.

Why is it that post like this always somehow come back to haunt you.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Bowdoin ?

...
What does "fan for life" mean that a true playoff would have more dark horse teams in the final four but all would have earned the honor?

What is a dark horse other than a dark horse that no body has ever heard of? Isn't that why they are called dark horses? And how does a dark horse earn the honor to be in the final four?
...

My take was, "If the NCAA had held to objective data, more long shots would have been included." but IF that is what was meant, long shots inherently don't provide much supporting objective data, so that still wouldn’t make much sense.

 

[KnightsOfTheRound]

Re: Bowdoin ?

Watch The OSU Great Lakers Sat. March 20th in the National Championship Game Live on CBS Sports Net.

Wow, looking ahead much? Oswego has to play a very good team on Friday, you know.

 

[fan for life]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

In Canada many people think that one game is not an appropriate way to determine who moves on in hockey playoffs (preferring best of 5 or 7). We believe that the best team will emerge the winner in a series of games. The team that can win one game or put together a couple to win, may be what we would call the dark horse, one who was not anticipated to win based on talent, skills or record. Summary- one game hockey playoffs increase the number of dark horse champions (not meaning to insult but Lake Placid 1980 comes to mind)

The other end of the spectrum is football or curling where there are only one game matches and snooker where the winner is first to 9, 10 or 18 frames(best of 17, 19 or 35). Using the quasi mathematical playoff selection method defeats the whole concept of playing sport where the game determines the playoff choices, not money, talent, history or a mathematical formula.

The Olympic hockey tournament is largely a one game playoff series. We all accept a winner who proceeds by way of a playoff as legitimate, as in, they have earned the championship. It isn't our preference for hockey.

 

[KnightsOfTheRound]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

In Canada many people think that one game is not an appropriate way to determine who moves on in hockey playoffs (preferring best of 5 or 7). We believe that the best team will emerge the winner in a series of games. The team that can win one game or put together a couple to win, may be what we would call the dark horse, one who was not anticipated to win based on talent, skills or record. Summary- one game hockey playoffs increase the number of dark horse champions (not meaning to insult but Lake Placid 1980 comes to mind)

The team hoisting the trophy when the tournament is over isn't necessarily the best team that year. They're the team that won the tournament, and thus National Champions, but not necessarily the best team.

So which is better? A system where the better team has more opportunities to prove they are better and therefore will win more often on average, or a one-and-done system that gives underdogs a better chance at advancing? Its all a values judgment and there's no right answer, as far as I'm concerned. You just need to be mindful that National Champion doesn't automatically equate to Best Team (even when they play a seven game series).

I think college basketball has the best playoff system in all of sports, but when you think about it it's really a wretched system for finding out who the best team is. And I'm glad for that. The number of memorable moments that the NCAA basketball tournament has provided is astounding in part because the best team doesn't always win. We don't remember the chalk tournaments, but we remember Villanova beating Georgetown and Jim Valvano looking for somebody to hug after NC State beat Houston.

Nobody should be insulted by what you said about Lake Placid, especially because Herb Brooks said the exact same thing. If the U.S. played the Soviets ten times its unlikely they could have won more than once, but once was enough.

 

[mdmadison]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

The team hoisting the trophy when the tournament is over isn't necessarily the best team that year. They're the team that won the tournament, and thus National Champions, but not necessarily the best team.

So which is better? A system where the better team has more opportunities to prove they are better and therefore will win more often on average, or a one-and-done system that gives underdogs a better chance at advancing? Its all a values judgment and there's no right answer, as far as I'm concerned. You just need to be mindful that National Champion doesn't automatically equate to Best Team (even when they play a seven game series).

I think college basketball has the best playoff system in all of sports, but when you think about it it's really a wretched system for finding out who the best team is. And I'm glad for that. The number of memorable moments that the NCAA basketball tournament has provided is astounding in part because the best team doesn't always win. We don't remember the chalk tournaments, but we remember Villanova beating Georgetown and Jim Valvano looking for somebody to hug after NC State beat Houston.

Nobody should be insulted by what you said about Lake Placid, especially because Herb Brooks said the exact same thing. If the U.S. played the Soviets ten times its unlikely they could have won more than once, but once was enough.

While everyone is pondering the value of a one and done tournament vs. a series playoff to determine the national champion, remember that Neumann, a dark horse, did win the national championship last year and they were not a highly ranked team. So again, are we really looking at the best team winning the championship or just the team that is peaking at the right moment and becoming the best team at that time.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Bowdoin

Re: Bowdoin

While everyone is pondering the value of a one and done tournament vs. a series playoff to determine the national champion, remember that Neumann, a dark horse, did win the national championship last year and they were not a highly ranked team. So again, are we really looking at the best team winning the championship or just the team that is peaking at the right moment and becoming the best team at that time.

I think that's exactly what KnightsoftheRound said.