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Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

obviously they have to be confident in whomever they get, but i'd like to see them go against teams they have played well against - if it's only just for Scarlet's heart.

a first round matchup with lowell would be best :D
then if we get lowell in the semis.
and lowell in the finals i'd be stoked! :p

by the way, where is Scarlet?:confused: she has been mostly MIA lately............g'night BU folk, it was enjoyable on here today............thanks for having me:p
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Yes. If he comments at all, I'm sure it'll be something along the lines of, "It's always disappointing to see something like that happen." Parker and Cronin are very good friends. At the media luncheons I've been to, I see Parker talking to Cronin more than any other coach.

I don't know either of them, but my observation is they view things similarly. In 2009, after the Hobey Baker ceremony, my wife and I bumped into Cronin on the Metro. He was very friendly and candid. He was willing to discuss his team and made a remark about how Ryan Ginand had "disappeared" on the team in the later stages of the season.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Hey, that's ECHL All-Star Ryan Ginand you're talking about ;)
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Interesting hearing everyones take on the PWR... was actually talking about this with a friend last night. It will be interesting to see how the next two weekends play out. In my eyes it is total B. S. that for the purposes of the NCAA's it doesnt matter if we pass Merrimack or even BC at this point. Heck, I think we could still (mathemetically) finish first in Hockey East and still not make the NCAA.

If we do pass Merimack in the standings by definition, we had a better in conference season. So what the difference? The non confrerence games right? Merimack went 6-0-1 in their non conference schedule against teams like Alabama Huntsville, Connecticut, Army etc etc. Congrats to them for winning these games, but there is not one quality OOC win. Shame on us for losing to Harvard, but even if we win that game, I still think we are on the outside looking in (by my understanding of the pairwise) even though we have quality wins OOC against ranked teams.

Looking at it that way, to me the PWR makes no sense.

Fire away with the homer comments....
The difference is BU has only 2 quality wins in conference.
BU is 0-4 vs BC, 0-1-2 vs MC, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-2 vs Maine. If Maine hadn't tanked there for a bit BU would be in better shape, and probably will be in better shape if Maine can sweep MC this weekend.
My guess though is that the Harvard loss doesn't hurt BU as much as the inability to win 1 or 2 against BC and 1 against MC.

By comparison, MC has 6 quality wins in conference, with 2 more possible.
MC is 2-1 vs BC, 1-0-2 vs BU, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-0 vs Maine. Big difference.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

My guess though is that the Harvard loss doesn't hurt BU as much as the inability to win 1 or 2 against BC and 1 against MC.

Well a Harvard loss certainly hurts BU's RPI more than a BC loss, but on the flipside a BU win against BC helps their RPI more than a win against HU. I'm not going to run the numbers, but I'm actually not sure if you flipped one game against Harvard or against BC which would help our RPI more, they are probably pretty close.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

BU is currently 14th in KRACH, the system I and many others think is much better than PWR. Perfect example of how much of a difference that stupid TUC line can make.

Comparing Krach to PWR is apples to oranges, Krach is a mathematical formula used to compute a single number that represents a team's performance. PWR is a combination of multiple individual numbers that compares one team to one other team and tells you which one of the two has a better resume then moves on to the next two teams. Compare Krach to RPI as they try to state the same thing, or compare PWR to KPWR (which replaces RPI with Krach in the individual comparisons).
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

The difference is BU has only 2 quality wins in conference.
BU is 0-4 vs BC, 0-1-2 vs MC, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-2 vs Maine. If Maine hadn't tanked there for a bit BU would be in better shape, and probably will be in better shape if Maine can sweep MC this weekend.
My guess though is that the Harvard loss doesn't hurt BU as much as the inability to win 1 or 2 against BC and 1 against MC.

By comparison, MC has 6 quality wins in conference, with 2 more possible.
MC is 2-1 vs BC, 1-0-2 vs BU, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-0 vs Maine. Big difference.

For sure... I understand why that is killing us in the PWR... I'm saying I'm not sure I agree with the system... to me if a team finishes higher than another one within the conference, then that team would be considered as having a better conference season.. and the next step should be to look at the OOC... and at that point it's very debateable weather its better to have an udefeated record against sludge leval opponents, or a mix of quality wins, ties and "good" and bad losses.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

The difference is BU has only 2 quality wins in conference.
BU is 0-4 vs BC, 0-1-2 vs MC, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-2 vs Maine. If Maine hadn't tanked there for a bit BU would be in better shape, and probably will be in better shape if Maine can sweep MC this weekend.
My guess though is that the Harvard loss doesn't hurt BU as much as the inability to win 1 or 2 against BC and 1 against MC.

By comparison, MC has 6 quality wins in conference, with 2 more possible.
MC is 2-1 vs BC, 1-0-2 vs BU, 2-1 vs UNH and 1-0-0 vs Maine. Big difference.

Merrimack fan here. Not saying I agree completely with the Pairwise, but it is what it is and every team knows what it is going into the season. You are actually better off beating good teams to get wins against TUC and wins in the head to head componenet. As a Merrimack fan, I was devasted after the team had a terrible performance in a loss to UML, following a win over BU. However, if MC lost to BU and beat UML, it would have been worse for the Pairwise.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Well a Harvard loss certainly hurts BU's RPI more than a BC loss, but on the flipside a BU win against BC helps their RPI more than a win against HU. I'm not going to run the numbers, but I'm actually not sure if you flipped one game against Harvard or against BC which would help our RPI more, they are probably pretty close.

the harvard loss hurts with the four ezac teams currently in the top 16. our COP with the league sucks= 1-3-1. we are losing the comp with dartmouth for crying out loud!!
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

the harvard loss hurts with the four ezac teams currently in the top 16. our COP with the league sucks= 1-3-1. we are losing the comp with dartmouth for crying out loud!!

Yes, the HU loss hurts us more in the COP than BC, because the teams we have COP of BC with either are in HE (meaning that game is just 1 of 28+ games) or more than likely lost to BC OOC meaning they get no leg up (unless we have played another team and both had the same result in which case the larger number of BC losses we have brings us down), and the BC losses hurts us more in TUC since the TUC cliff would have to be the top 50 something teams for HU to register:o.

IMO both of those areas were somewhat obvious, RPI would be a more interesting calculation.

BU will finish 14th in the PWR (you heard it here first) meaning if we don't win the league, then after the AHA Champ gets their autobid 3 of the remaining 4 conference tourneys must be won by teams in the top 15 or it'll be golf season.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

But is the matchup against MC that lopsided? The goal difference on the year is +1 to MC, with two games on their home ice. You have to wonder how nerves would play in for MC playing at the Garden if they got there, whomever they play.

Depends on what you consider "the matchup". Head to head, yes, it was close, but BU did not win a game. In the head to head component of the PWR, that looks like "1-0" MC, since Merrimack won one game and lost none.

Abandoning the RPI/PWR and looking at league play, Merrimack has scored 29 more goals than they have given up, which is pretty similar to UNH (+33) and BC (+36) but a far cry from BU's mark (+7).

BU is only two points back of Merrimack, but got those points in part by three season sweeps of lower-ranked teams, Amherst, Lowell and Providence. They took no points from BC, but had good showings against Maine and UNH. Thing is, UNH itself has dropped in the PWR, so those wins are not worth nearly as much as wins against BC. Neither of the opponents BU has left can possibly boost BU's PWR that much, no matter what the result, as NU and UVM are not ranked highly enough. Conversely, MC has only one sweep (Amherst) but has taken every series it has finished so far, usually 2-1-- the notable exceptions being BU (1-0-2) and UVM (2-0-1). BU has made more points from its ties (5) than MC (3) and some components of RPI/PWR seem to only take into account wins. MC has two more league wins. That would be the next tiebreaker used, although in the case of MC and BU there's no need for it, as head to head goes first and MC owns the tiebreaker on the other three top teams.

Unfortunately for just about everybody who has had to play them this month, NU is peaking late, and they are now a much better team than their ranking indicates, so that is really a trap series. Nobody will be that surprised if NU takes a few points, but earning those points for BU will be a lot harder, and the win not worth as much in terms of the NCAAs.

Last point... nerves.

Frankly if this was a Merrimack team composed of some of the best MC players I've seen in the past two decades, I'd probably agree. This team has an entirely different composition, though. I've honestly seen nary a moment of panic or nerves, and Coach Dennehy has said he's made it a point to go after guys who have tourney-winning experience prior to playing college hockey. BC and BU may very well treat the Garden ice as a home away from home, but where I think that might have been a big factor against MC teams of the past, I think it will be greatly minimized this year. These guys believe they deserve to win; there's simply no "oh no here we go again" light that's going to go on over their heads if they go into a playoff game and the opponent scores.

That's not to say I necessarily think that MC would win such a game; only that they can, and that I don't think the spotlight is going to bother this team that much. I think perhaps last season's opener at NoDak caused that kind of reaction, but I think they are better prepared now.
 
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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I believe bc has only lost two home qf games under york (both to bu in that 2004 series)

Yeah, I should have looked it up. What I was remembering was that Vermont series where I think UVM was winning game 1 and BC tied it late and won in OT. Then they won easily in game 2. Like I said, it's all relative;)

Thanks for bringing up the 2004 series, though. Brought a smile to my face.:D
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

For sure... I understand why that is killing us in the PWR... I'm saying I'm not sure I agree with the system... to me if a team finishes higher than another one within the conference, then that team would be considered as having a better conference season.. and the next step should be to look at the OOC... and at that point it's very debateable weather its better to have an udefeated record against sludge leval opponents, or a mix of quality wins, ties and "good" and bad losses.

Calculated that way you'd have to worry less about passing MC and more about getting more wins than RIT and Robert Morris. The system exists because the debate about whether it's better to go undefeated against "bad" opponents has been settled, and that's why PWR exists. If those opponents are "good enough" then going undefeated might be. If they aren't, then it's not, and with such limited interconference play, there's no choice but to bring in other elements, like record against TUC and record against common opponents.

MC wins all of those comparisons: head to head, COP, TUC and RPI.

You're trying to set MC as a "rung" and say that if you're not better than that, then at least you're close, and that on the basis of that there should be no great gap between MC and BU in the PWR. In reality, there isn't-- the problem is that there are eleven other teams from three other conferences that are between the two. One of those teams is UNH-- but according to your logic, since they are ahead of MC in the league, they should be ahead in the PWR also, right? In fact, UNH is ahead of BC, so BC's position in the top four is completely unjustified when compared to UNH's #11 ranking, right?

Quality wins, in or out of conference, matter more. More of MC's quality wins are within the conference than outside it, but that's not really a basis for anything. The PWR doesn't give league games a privileged position over other games.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

One of those teams is UNH-- but according to your logic, since they are ahead of MC in the league, they should be ahead in the PWR also, right? In fact, UNH is ahead of BC, so BC's position in the top four is completely unjustified when compared to UNH's #11 ranking, right?

I have no idea... I didn't look at UNH's OOC schedule... but UNH is ahead of MC in hockey east, so if UNH has some quality wins OOC, then yes, I think UNH should have a better case for making the NCAA given Merrimacks OOC schedule. (if the cutoff were at the point where UNH is sitting). Again, it would come down to if you think a string of wins aggainst terrible opponents should be more or less valuable than a mix of quality wins, ties and "good" and "bad" losses.
 
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Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

For sure... I understand why that is killing us in the PWR... I'm saying I'm not sure I agree with the system... to me if a team finishes higher than another one within the conference, then that team would be considered as having a better conference season.. and the next step should be to look at the OOC... and at that point it's very debateable weather its better to have an udefeated record against sludge leval opponents, or a mix of quality wins, ties and "good" and bad losses.
OK. You want to add weight to conference finish, regardless of the quality of opponents beaten in the conference to get there.

But now you have to explain why BU losing to 'sludge level opponents' RPI (5th place ECAC) and Brown (9th place ECAC) is better than MC beating RIT (1st place AHA) and Niagara (5th place AHA). Remember... conference finish has more weight than quality of conference opponents, so I'd say MC has the advantage over BU against the 'sludge'.

BU also lost to Harvard (12th place ECAC). Merrimack beat Harvard. Another 'sludge' win for MC.

Winning is always better than losing, regardless the opponent in my book, but I'd love to see your formula. ;)
 
It doesn't happen often, but the one thing that irks me when it comes to PWR is when a team that finishes behind in the standings and even eliminated in the playoffs before the other team, they still make the tourney over that team. Now I understand there are unbalanced league schedules in the wcha and ccha, but I've always liked the idea of leaving the last couple at large bids up to the committee--to add some human element.
 
Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

It doesn't happen often, but the one thing that irks me when it comes to PWR is when a team that finishes behind in the standings and even eliminated in the playoffs before the other team, they still make the tourney over that team. Now I understand there are unbalanced league schedules in the wcha and ccha, but I've always liked the idea of leaving the last couple at large bids up to the committee--to add some human element.

I think I agree with this this. The way the PWR works, it's almost like the 7 OOC games are more important than the 27 league games. Something about that just isn't right. Vermont finishing 8th in HE last year and still making it as an at-large is a perfect example. I don't think there was anyone who follows HE who thought UVM was a better team than BU, Maine or UML last year.
 
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