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Big Ten Hockey Conference
- Thread starter UNH09
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du78
Gunning For 10
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Actually, DU has been playing many of those eastern teams consistently in the regular season both at home and away. In the past 6 seasons including the upcoming season, DU will have played against BC, BU and ND in three of the six years. They will have played ME, VT, Colgate and UMass in two of the six seasons. They have also faced OSU, Maimi, RPI and Northeastern, among others. The student body at DU has a lot of kids from the East Coast and schools like BC, BU, etc. are well recognized by them and are known as hockey schools. Those OOC series or games played in Denver tend to be well attended as compared to some of the lower end WCHA series.
Actually, DU has been playing many of those eastern teams consistently in the regular season both at home and away. In the past 6 seasons including the upcoming season, DU will have played against BC, BU and ND in three of the six years. They will have played ME, VT, Colgate and UMass in two of the six seasons. They have also faced OSU, Maimi, RPI and Northeastern, among others. The student body at DU has a lot of kids from the East Coast and schools like BC, BU, etc. are well recognized by them and are known as hockey schools. Those OOC series or games played in Denver tend to be well attended as compared to some of the lower end WCHA series.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Would this affect the WCHA's waiver of having less than the number of DI schools to support a DI conference? They'd be down to two DI schools, North Dakota and Denver. I know they were grandfathered in a few years back, but with a major conference over-haul, would it still be in effect?
Would this affect the WCHA's waiver of having less than the number of DI schools to support a DI conference? They'd be down to two DI schools, North Dakota and Denver. I know they were grandfathered in a few years back, but with a major conference over-haul, would it still be in effect?
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
I completely agree. From this Cornell fan's perspective, I seriously doubt that we lose many recruits to B10 schools, regardless of their conference affiliation. IF OSU and PSU were able to improve and jump-start (respectively) their recruiting, they'll be doing so at the expense of the remaining WCHA and CCHA members who could be having a harder time convincing the top recruits to come to those diminished leagues - not at the expense of HEA powerhouses and ECAC mid-majors. But that's a big "IF" in my opinion - it's not obvious to me that OSU's recruiting gets a big boost by being UW and UMinn's punching bag 8x per year. Every single year, somebody is going to finish at the bottom of the BTHC, and they will almost certainly have a losing record. Will top recruits really choose that over a high-flying UND, DU, BC, BU program? It's not like the recruits see any of the extra TV money that the B10 network will bring in, so what would be in it for them?
I completely agree. From this Cornell fan's perspective, I seriously doubt that we lose many recruits to B10 schools, regardless of their conference affiliation. IF OSU and PSU were able to improve and jump-start (respectively) their recruiting, they'll be doing so at the expense of the remaining WCHA and CCHA members who could be having a harder time convincing the top recruits to come to those diminished leagues - not at the expense of HEA powerhouses and ECAC mid-majors. But that's a big "IF" in my opinion - it's not obvious to me that OSU's recruiting gets a big boost by being UW and UMinn's punching bag 8x per year. Every single year, somebody is going to finish at the bottom of the BTHC, and they will almost certainly have a losing record. Will top recruits really choose that over a high-flying UND, DU, BC, BU program? It's not like the recruits see any of the extra TV money that the B10 network will bring in, so what would be in it for them?
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
That's ridiculous. The only sport where the Integer would be a significant downgrade competition-wise is women's basketball. It would be a modest downgrade in men's basketball, probably about equal in men's and women's soccer, a mammoth upgrade in women's volleyball, I presume an upgrade in softball given M's success... dunno about the rest, but on balance, I'd grade the Integer ahead of the Big East. (For other reasons, I'm resolutely opposed to ever going to the Integer, and I think recent developments involving the football shuffling suggest that Swarbrick feels the same way.)
The ACC would be an even bigger win, though... no substantial downgrades in any sport, not quite as big an upgrade in women's volleyball but substantial upgrade in women's soccer, baseball, and softball.
That's ridiculous. The only sport where the Integer would be a significant downgrade competition-wise is women's basketball. It would be a modest downgrade in men's basketball, probably about equal in men's and women's soccer, a mammoth upgrade in women's volleyball, I presume an upgrade in softball given M's success... dunno about the rest, but on balance, I'd grade the Integer ahead of the Big East. (For other reasons, I'm resolutely opposed to ever going to the Integer, and I think recent developments involving the football shuffling suggest that Swarbrick feels the same way.)
The ACC would be an even bigger win, though... no substantial downgrades in any sport, not quite as big an upgrade in women's volleyball but substantial upgrade in women's soccer, baseball, and softball.
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Sterling Cooper
New member
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
You seriously underestimate the amount of bad blood felt towards the domers in the Big Ten offices and among Big Ten administrations. There isn't a chance in hades that the Big Ten would invite ND's hockey program in without the domers coming into the conference as a full and equal member.
You seriously underestimate the amount of bad blood felt towards the domers in the Big Ten offices and among Big Ten administrations. There isn't a chance in hades that the Big Ten would invite ND's hockey program in without the domers coming into the conference as a full and equal member.
aparch
Well-known member
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
That would be just as big of news as Penn State joining.
They're not coming back to life.
That would be just as big of news as Penn State joining.
They're not coming back to life.
AFHockeyFan
Registered User
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Air Force would almost be competitive in a Minnesota and Wisconsinless-WCHA. It would definitely cut down on travel, but we would probably need to add some seats.
Air Force would almost be competitive in a Minnesota and Wisconsinless-WCHA. It would definitely cut down on travel, but we would probably need to add some seats.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Them's the one I was thinking of.
Pretty much the only sure downgrade in ACC would be football (men's hoops as well, if your opinion is that ACC > Big East), and that's in the sense that joining ANY conference means a downgrade, since they lose their sweetheart BCS deal.
I don't disagree with your assessment by sport (half because I'm less invested/knowledgeable), but I'm weighing mine with the notion that the sports in which an upgrade would be seen are considerably lower priority, and that a downgrade to basketball by a shift to the Big Whatever far outweighs the upgrades to minor sports. I can guarantee it won't be a huge gain in women's volleyball that would have any impact on their decision to hop from the Big East to the Big Whatever, but that a loss in basketball surely will.
Them's the one I was thinking of.
Pretty much the only sure downgrade in ACC would be football (men's hoops as well, if your opinion is that ACC > Big East), and that's in the sense that joining ANY conference means a downgrade, since they lose their sweetheart BCS deal.
I don't disagree with your assessment by sport (half because I'm less invested/knowledgeable), but I'm weighing mine with the notion that the sports in which an upgrade would be seen are considerably lower priority, and that a downgrade to basketball by a shift to the Big Whatever far outweighs the upgrades to minor sports. I can guarantee it won't be a huge gain in women's volleyball that would have any impact on their decision to hop from the Big East to the Big Whatever, but that a loss in basketball surely will.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
I don't see a super conference right away as the eastern teams will have to assess if it's beneficial to them financially and it might not be. They may believe they can be fine financially with the status quo. But I do see eventually all hell breaking loose here. If you are the WCHA, you are proactive and trying to keep up money wise, and adding another western team or a team that has a high profile nationally such as but not limited to a Boise or a ND would make sense. (I don't see the California schools adding but maybe a Utah school would.) If another western team started a program, or a new one joined, such as AF, I could see the WCHA splitting into two divisions, and adding NMU, Miami, and maybe LSSU. I think that would compete with the bthc and would keep costs under control as well.
This could get real ugly in a year or two, behind the scenes at least. Overall, every AD out there is going to be re- assessing his schools position and affiliations.
at any rate the talent pool will be diluted for sure.
I agree, with caveats. Also the marginal tv revenues will be substantial for all the bthc teams. It's not out of the realm of possibility for say Iowa to start a team as well. Especially after they see they can have title 9 covered, and make money too. Second, Any time you have the things to offer that PSU has, you are bound to take recruits from other schools especially in your region, established record or not.I agree that they will play a lot of ooc games, and offer big pots to teams to come in. I also see them preserving rivalry's such as UND/ UMN.
I don't see a super conference right away as the eastern teams will have to assess if it's beneficial to them financially and it might not be. They may believe they can be fine financially with the status quo. But I do see eventually all hell breaking loose here. If you are the WCHA, you are proactive and trying to keep up money wise, and adding another western team or a team that has a high profile nationally such as but not limited to a Boise or a ND would make sense. (I don't see the California schools adding but maybe a Utah school would.) If another western team started a program, or a new one joined, such as AF, I could see the WCHA splitting into two divisions, and adding NMU, Miami, and maybe LSSU. I think that would compete with the bthc and would keep costs under control as well.
This could get real ugly in a year or two, behind the scenes at least. Overall, every AD out there is going to be re- assessing his schools position and affiliations.
at any rate the talent pool will be diluted for sure.
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bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Since everyone is tossing out what they think the conferences will look like, here's what I think will happen.
Big 10
Minnesota
Michigan
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan State
After this the other western powers will be scrambling, and I see them forming a conference that would look like:
North Dakota
Denver
Colorado College
St. Cloud State
Nebraska-Omaha
Notre Dame
Miami
Minnesota-Duluth
Leaving the remaining teams in the WCHA (UAA, MSU-M, MTU, BSU), CCHA (NMU, LSSU, WMU, FSU, BGSU, UA) and UAH completely screwed, because they have no name schools and both Alaskas.
This is bad.
Since everyone is tossing out what they think the conferences will look like, here's what I think will happen.
Big 10
Minnesota
Michigan
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan State
After this the other western powers will be scrambling, and I see them forming a conference that would look like:
North Dakota
Denver
Colorado College
St. Cloud State
Nebraska-Omaha
Notre Dame
Miami
Minnesota-Duluth
Leaving the remaining teams in the WCHA (UAA, MSU-M, MTU, BSU), CCHA (NMU, LSSU, WMU, FSU, BGSU, UA) and UAH completely screwed, because they have no name schools and both Alaskas.
This is bad.
dggoddard
New member
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
DU and North Dakota aren't going to sit back and watch their Athletic Departments' "Golden Gooses" fade into the sunset.
Just look at what happened in college football and basketball. Schools will cut loose the weak ducklings and form conferences with like minded programs.
DU, UND, CC, Notre Dame, UMD and Miami all have brand new arenas or plans to build one, brand names in hockey and tradition.
DU & UND have TV deals. They need to schedule relevant opponents to remain viable.
DU and North Dakota aren't going to sit back and watch their Athletic Departments' "Golden Gooses" fade into the sunset.
Just look at what happened in college football and basketball. Schools will cut loose the weak ducklings and form conferences with like minded programs.
DU, UND, CC, Notre Dame, UMD and Miami all have brand new arenas or plans to build one, brand names in hockey and tradition.
DU & UND have TV deals. They need to schedule relevant opponents to remain viable.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
It seems to me the possibility exists that the Big Ten teams would play in 2 concurrent leagues.
If both the WCHA and CCHA moved to playing each opponent in a single 2-game series, there would be plenty of opportunity for the BT teams to play each other.
For example, if the WCHA moved to a 22-game schedule, that would leave MN and WI 12 games. If each BT team played each other in a single 2-game series, that would still leave 2 more ooc games to schedule. The Big Ten could crown a regular season champion, and the Big Ten Network could have a hockey game to broadcast virtually every Friday night throughout the season.
Some might ask why the CCHA and WCHA would switch to a reduced schedule. But if MI, MSU, OSU, MN and WI went to their respective leagues and said "either the league moves to a 22-game schedule or we move out of the league," the CCHA and WCHA would quickly adopt the change.
Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part, as it would be a good development from my perspective. Anyone ave thoughts as to why this wouldn't come to pass?
It seems to me the possibility exists that the Big Ten teams would play in 2 concurrent leagues.
If both the WCHA and CCHA moved to playing each opponent in a single 2-game series, there would be plenty of opportunity for the BT teams to play each other.
For example, if the WCHA moved to a 22-game schedule, that would leave MN and WI 12 games. If each BT team played each other in a single 2-game series, that would still leave 2 more ooc games to schedule. The Big Ten could crown a regular season champion, and the Big Ten Network could have a hockey game to broadcast virtually every Friday night throughout the season.
Some might ask why the CCHA and WCHA would switch to a reduced schedule. But if MI, MSU, OSU, MN and WI went to their respective leagues and said "either the league moves to a 22-game schedule or we move out of the league," the CCHA and WCHA would quickly adopt the change.
Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part, as it would be a good development from my perspective. Anyone ave thoughts as to why this wouldn't come to pass?
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Everyone is assuming the b11 wants a hockey conference. All indications are they don't give a crap about hockey. Right now they don't even go out of their way to show any current b11 teams when play eachother on tv. They could show the UW/rodent tilts, and the UM/OSU/MST tilts, plus the college hockey showcase games, totalling what, 20 games or so? What do they show, maybe 4 or 5 games? Plus hockey is going on at the same time as bb. BB is WAY more important than hockey. If they do it, it will be an after-thought and the coverage will be bad, really bad. We'll all see way less games on tv. There's no way the b11 will allow FSN to show rodent or UW games or allow WI Public TV to show UW games. They will own the rights to the games.
I would rather see PSU join the CCHA or WCHA, preferrably the CCHA.
Everyone is assuming the b11 wants a hockey conference. All indications are they don't give a crap about hockey. Right now they don't even go out of their way to show any current b11 teams when play eachother on tv. They could show the UW/rodent tilts, and the UM/OSU/MST tilts, plus the college hockey showcase games, totalling what, 20 games or so? What do they show, maybe 4 or 5 games? Plus hockey is going on at the same time as bb. BB is WAY more important than hockey. If they do it, it will be an after-thought and the coverage will be bad, really bad. We'll all see way less games on tv. There's no way the b11 will allow FSN to show rodent or UW games or allow WI Public TV to show UW games. They will own the rights to the games.
I would rather see PSU join the CCHA or WCHA, preferrably the CCHA.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
A couple of us around here have been saying this for a while. The only problem: Ron Mason suggested in a recent radio interview that the Big Ten was leaning towards a separate league.
A couple of us around here have been saying this for a while. The only problem: Ron Mason suggested in a recent radio interview that the Big Ten was leaning towards a separate league.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Even still: you could have a 24 game schedule in the WCHA (double round robin, plus an extra series against a designated rival). That leaves 10 OOC games without exemptions for Alaska or special tourneys.
Do you really need a full series for each "non-conference" Big Twelven matchup? You could do traveling partners, like is done for the Showcase, and accomplish the same thing in 4 OOC games for the WCHA teams instead of 8.
It's moot point, though. We all know that the BT will push for an actual league.
Even still: you could have a 24 game schedule in the WCHA (double round robin, plus an extra series against a designated rival). That leaves 10 OOC games without exemptions for Alaska or special tourneys.
Do you really need a full series for each "non-conference" Big Twelven matchup? You could do traveling partners, like is done for the Showcase, and accomplish the same thing in 4 OOC games for the WCHA teams instead of 8.
It's moot point, though. We all know that the BT will push for an actual league.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
You have the more realistic take on it than some of these people who think another super conference of sorts would be put together to answer it. I doubt many of these programs are going to toss more money away by trying to answer with their own conference with wide geographical differences, etc. A number of these hockey programs help subsidize the rest of their athletic department's costs (particularly in the WCHA). They are better off sticking with what they have and trying to make it a better product.
You have the more realistic take on it than some of these people who think another super conference of sorts would be put together to answer it. I doubt many of these programs are going to toss more money away by trying to answer with their own conference with wide geographical differences, etc. A number of these hockey programs help subsidize the rest of their athletic department's costs (particularly in the WCHA). They are better off sticking with what they have and trying to make it a better product.
aparch
Well-known member
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. It's just what happens once Penn State is in the CCHA for a couple years? Then what?
Here's a random thought. If PSU joins the CCHA, would the WCHA trade MTU for tOSU? tOSU is already a Women's WCHA member school...
Split the Big10 schools in both the WCHA and CCHA 50/50?
If the Big10 schools are so hellbent on getting their own conference, a 20 game schedule would be pretty good for them. AND then have them play eight guaranteed Non-Conference games against CCHA/WCHA opponents respectively. Let them get up to the same 28 games as the WCHA and CCHA currently has (count those games against the CCHA/WCHA?). Then, the Big10 schools are still free to schedule their six non-conference "whatever" games against whoever they want. Eight non-conference games if they play Alaska or Anchorage in the eight "associate league" games.
I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. It's just what happens once Penn State is in the CCHA for a couple years? Then what?
Here's a random thought. If PSU joins the CCHA, would the WCHA trade MTU for tOSU? tOSU is already a Women's WCHA member school...
Split the Big10 schools in both the WCHA and CCHA 50/50?
If the Big10 schools are so hellbent on getting their own conference, a 20 game schedule would be pretty good for them. AND then have them play eight guaranteed Non-Conference games against CCHA/WCHA opponents respectively. Let them get up to the same 28 games as the WCHA and CCHA currently has (count those games against the CCHA/WCHA?). Then, the Big10 schools are still free to schedule their six non-conference "whatever" games against whoever they want. Eight non-conference games if they play Alaska or Anchorage in the eight "associate league" games.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
Also, you can't just kick MTU out of the WCHA, and they're not going anywhere. We've been through this.
The problem is, once they're all in the Big 10 instead of the WCHA and CCHA there is no way to make them play non-conference games against certain teams or to make them travel for non-conference games.
Also, you can't just kick MTU out of the WCHA, and they're not going anywhere. We've been through this.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference
I'm trying to think about what leverage the non-BT schools have in the WCHA and CCHA.
Would they be able to enforce heavy monetary penalties to the schools that abandon ship (almost like the parachute payments in English soccer... except going in the other direction, I guess)? If they stand firm, UW and UM are outvoted 10-2. UM, MSU and OSU are only outvoted 8-3, but that's still a solid majority.
Beyond that, the non-BT schools don't have any leverage, as far as I can see, and they are at the mercy of the Big Tenve schools to even get OOC games if/when the BTHC happens.
I'm trying to think about what leverage the non-BT schools have in the WCHA and CCHA.
Would they be able to enforce heavy monetary penalties to the schools that abandon ship (almost like the parachute payments in English soccer... except going in the other direction, I guess)? If they stand firm, UW and UM are outvoted 10-2. UM, MSU and OSU are only outvoted 8-3, but that's still a solid majority.
Beyond that, the non-BT schools don't have any leverage, as far as I can see, and they are at the mercy of the Big Tenve schools to even get OOC games if/when the BTHC happens.
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