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Big Ten Hockey Conference

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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

A 6 team league is pretty small, thats only 20 games (4 vs each) in conference. That leaves 18-20 games to be scheduled.

I don't really want to play a team more than 4 times a year (minus playoffs).
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

JF_Gophers said:
A 6 team league is pretty small, thats only 20 games (4 vs each) in conference. That leaves 18-20 games to be scheduled.

I don't really want to play a team more than 4 times a year (minus playoffs).
Click to expand...

Actually, it leaves 14 (34 game limit with no Alaska trip or exempt tourney). Plus, that's the whole point. Those 6 schools would get, oh, I don't know, an aditional 10-12 home OOC games (how many road OOC games do you figure Minnesota or Michigan to do each year?). Just look at Minnesota quickly. They could easily set up a perpetual OOC contract with Mankato, Duluth, SCSU, BSU, NoDak and offer three years at Mariucci and one on the road (with finantial guarantees for the years they don't travel). That still leaves two weekends for the Gophers to do what they want - the Holiday Classic and lure in another cupcake (Brown last year, RMU, they have a decent UMass team coming in this year), which would, again, be at home. Heck, even if two of the "rival" state-schools were on the road in a given year, that's still 10 OOC games at home, plus the 10 home BTHC games.

Sample Gopher BTHC schedule (based on '10-'11):

British Columbia (ex)
Massachusetts (nc)
Massachusetts (nc)
@ Penn State
@ Penn State
St. Cloud State (nc)
St. Cloud State (nc)
@ Michigan State
@ Michigan State
Wisconsin
Wisconsin
@ OSU
@ OSU
Michigan
Michigan
Minnesota State (nc)
Minnesota State (nc)
Minnesota-Duluth (nc)
Minnesota-Duluth (nc)
Holiday Classic (nc)
Holiday Classic (nc)
US Under-18 Team (ex)
@ North Dakota (nc)
@ North Dakota (nc)
Penn State
Penn State
Michigan State
Michigan State
@ Michigan
@ Michigan
@ Wisconsin
@ Wisconsin
OSU
OSU
@ Bemidji State (nc)
@ Bemidji State (nc)
 
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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

JF_Gophers said:
A 6 team league is pretty small, thats only 20 games (4 vs each) in conference. That leaves 18-20 games to be scheduled.

I don't really want to play a team more than 4 times a year (minus playoffs).
Click to expand...

With 14 games of NC play (assuming you play BT colleges 4 times), you could always go back to some of the other WCHA teams for a few games. I'm sure UND would help out. Notre Dame would probably also make for some good NC games. Yes, your conference would be small, but WCHA and CCHA would also be smaller.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The problem for the remaining WCHA teams is that Bemidji and UNO, the two new teams in the WCHA, are essentially the replacement teams for Minnesota and Wisconsin if the BTHC is formed and the league falls back to 10 teams. The large gates and drawing power of Minnesota and Wisconsin will be gone during the league season. WCHA revenues and the WCHA tourney will suffer. Yes, it will initially be possible to schedule Minnesota and Wisconsin as OOC games, but the likelihood of them consistently playing road games in other WCHA barns is severely diminished. One example is that when Michigan left the WCHA in the early 1980s, they have never travelled to Denver to face DU at home. If the BTHC were eventually to expand to 8 teams, there would be less avilable OOC games for them to play. The remaining top WCHA schools are not looking for their revenue streams to decrease but increase. This is where all bets are off and they start to see how they can compete with the BTHC. Follow the money. That is why I think, DU, UND, CC, UMD, Miami, ND, BC, BU, UNH and ME all look at forming a super conference to compete with the BTHC.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

du78 said:
The problem for the remaining WCHA teams is that Bemidji and UNO, the two new teams in the WCHA, are essentially the replacement teams for Minnesota and Wisconsin if the BTHC is formed and the league falls back to 10 teams. The large gates and drawing power of Minnesota and Wisconsin will be gone during the league season. WCHA revenues and the WCHA tourney will suffer. Yes, it will initially be possible to schedule Minnesota and Wisconsin as OOC games, but the likelihood of them consistently playing road games in other WCHA barns is severely diminished. One example is that when Michigan left the WCHA in the early 1980s, they have never travelled to Denver to face DU at home. If the BTHC were eventually to expand to 8 teams, there would be less avilable OOC games for them to play. The remaining top WCHA schools are not looking for their revenue streams to decrease but increase. This is where all bets are off and they start to see how they can compete with the BTHC. Follow the money. That is why I think, DU, UND, CC, UMD, Miami, ND, BC, BU, UNH and ME all look at forming a super conference to compete with the BTHC.
Click to expand...

Do you really think UMD, and Maine for that matter have the budget to travel East/West? Its a big deal for the Hockey East schools to travel to Vermont and Orono. There is no way they would go to Denver. Remember these are "Student Athletes". If you have to travel that much, then you are missing way too much class time.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

du78 said:
...This is where all bets are off and they start to see how they can compete with the BTHC. Follow the money. That is why I think, DU, UND, CC, UMD, Miami, ND, BC, BU, UNH and ME all look at forming a super conference to compete with the BTHC.
Click to expand...

Why would DU make a lateral move into some new conference? Fastest route to the NCAA's would be through the new WCHA.

Any new conference (Big10, Anti-Big10, WCHA, CCHA, ECAC, Hockey East) is still going to have to play by the Pairwise, and the Team Under Consideration marker. And wouldn't it be easier (and better for the NCAA tourney) for DU to be in the winning half of it's former conference than the losing half of some conference set up to "take on" the Big10?

The Big10 is going to beat itself up. Half those teams will have a sub .500 record. This will be the biggest test to see just how well the pairwise works.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It'd end the complaining of Minnesota getting home ice advantage in the WCHA Final Five.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

NMU8405 said:
Do you really think UMD, and Maine for that matter have the budget to travel East/West? Its a big deal for the Hockey East schools to travel to Vermont and Orono. There is no way they would go to Denver. Remember these are "Student Athletes". If you have to travel that much, then you are missing way too much class time.
Click to expand...

Friday-Saturday series. It works wonders out west. You'd be amazed how little class time you miss when you don't have to travel for a Tuesday game.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The problem with a watered down WCHA and CCHA is that the best recruits will head to the BTHC so they can play against the best players and teams. Schools like DU, CC, UND, UMD, Miami and ND will no longer be getting some of the top recruits. By offering a competitive Anti-BTHC super league, the old WCHA, etc. schools will still be competing for the best recruits with the BTHC. The HE powers will also lose recruits that they have been getting from the USHL and Western Canada for the same reason. In terms of travel, I proposed a two conference league, east and west, where the same conference teams played each other four times and play cross conference teams twice a year. This would reduce the cost of travelling extensively east and west. It can be done and I am sure will be explored.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

du78 said:
The problem with a watered down WCHA and CCHA is that the best recruits will head to the BTHC so they can play against the best players and teams. Schools like DU, CC, UND, UMD, Miami and ND will no longer be getting some of the top recruits. By offering a competitive Anti-BTHC super league, the old WCHA, etc. schools will still be competing for the best recruits with the BTHC. The HE powers will also lose recruits that they have been getting from the USHL and Western Canada for the same reason. In terms of travel, I proposed a two conference league, east and west, where the same conference teams played each other four times and play cross conference teams twice a year. This would reduce the cost of travelling extensively east and west. It can be done and I am sure will be explored.
Click to expand...

Doesnt Michigan, Minnesota and the other big ten teams get the best recruits anyway? :confused: I dont see what is changing with recruiting.

Give me a player that will dedicate four years over a "One and Done."
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

CHFAN222 said:
With what money? They have a pretty small endowment. Do they have any rich alumni that would be willing to finance it? Also they might receive some heat since I'm sure BC would try hard to block any attempt for them to get state financing since they would not want to compete for recruits with them. Most importantly it would not be a guarantee that the BE would even have them.
Click to expand...

Villanova has issues with their stadium. It's too small and they likely wouldn't be able to build a new facility on campus for various reasons and a move to the Link doesn't seem like it would happen with Temple already playing there. Their best and perhaps only bet is to play in a soccer stadium nearby that holds just over the minimum capacity for FBS attendance. And I think they'd have to fill it.

I doubt BC would not try to block anything to do with Villanova. They could care less and don't have any pull down there. Chances of any recruit they offer a scholarship to going to Villanova in the next 50 years would be astronomically low. Heck, Uconn has enough trouble prying a guy away from BC, they get maybe 1 in every 30 guys that has a BC offer and a Uconn offer.

Lastly, the Big East has would definitely take them. The article published last week in the Daily News said "...the Big East, one of six BCS conferences, has asked the Wildcats to make the jump."
 
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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

du78 said:
The problem for the remaining WCHA teams is that Bemidji and UNO, the two new teams in the WCHA, are essentially the replacement teams for Minnesota and Wisconsin if the BTHC is formed and the league falls back to 10 teams. The large gates and drawing power of Minnesota and Wisconsin will be gone during the league season. WCHA revenues and the WCHA tourney will suffer. Yes, it will initially be possible to schedule Minnesota and Wisconsin as OOC games, but the likelihood of them consistently playing road games in other WCHA barns is severely diminished. One example is that when Michigan left the WCHA in the early 1980s, they have never travelled to Denver to face DU at home. If the BTHC were eventually to expand to 8 teams, there would be less avilable OOC games for them to play. The remaining top WCHA schools are not looking for their revenue streams to decrease but increase. This is where all bets are off and they start to see how they can compete with the BTHC. Follow the money. That is why I think, DU, UND, CC, UMD, Miami, ND, BC, BU, UNH and ME all look at forming a super conference to compete with the BTHC.
Click to expand...

You continue to assert that Denver fans care about the "name" programs of Minnesota and Wisconsin, and that attendance increases accordingly (looks like just on box scores, a full hose last year for the Gophers, and ~ 5500 for the other series). Problem with your argument, however, is that is an indictment of the "casual" hockey fan. The, "who are we playing? Hey, I want to see them, not Alaska. Hey, why are we even playing a school from Alaska?" type. Truthfully, how many of those fans know that Boston College is good at hockey? How 'bout Miami, Maine or New Hampshire or Boston Univ.? Of the schools you mentioned, only Notre Dame and (maybe) BC look to much of an upgrade in name recognition to the casual fan. Not to mention the pairwise implications (i.e. an easier path to the NCAA's) mentioned before. And you're suggesting throwing away 60 years of traditon for what gain exactly?
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

NMU8405 said:
Doesnt Michigan, Minnesota and the other big ten teams get the best recruits anyway? :confused: I dont see what is changing with recruiting.

Give me a player that will dedicate four years over a "One and Done."
Click to expand...

I think people at DU, CC, UND, UMD, BC, BU, ME, UNH, Miami, Maine and Cornell might not necessarily agree with you. Obviously MN, MI, MSU and WI have been getting top recruits all along. The profile of OSU will be increased dramatically and PSU and Indiana (a possibility) will be looking to stock their rosters. Those three schools represent 54 new or upgraded scholarship opportunities. With three rosters of 26 to 28 players, that is 78 to 84 new/upgraded spots for players that may have chosen previously to go to one of the non-BTHC schools.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

NMU8405 said:
Doesnt Michigan, Minnesota and the other big ten teams get the best recruits anyway? :confused: I dont see what is changing with recruiting.

Give me a player that will dedicate four years over a "One and Done."
Click to expand...

Exactly. Nothing would change other than Penn State would get maybe one top recruit that went to UND, ND, Miami, NMU, and Duluth. Once Penn State fills out their roster, they're turning away top talent (like Michigan, State, Wisconsin, and Minnesota does currently). You tell a 16 year old "we'd love to have you play college hockey here, but we're all recruited up through your senior year, you'd be lucky to make it as an injury replacement." That kid is STILL going to choose UND, DU, NMU, or ND because they have more flexibility and open arms for instant ice time.


And I'll even take a three year player over the one and dones. A one/two year player is just waiting to leave and go pro. A three/four year kid is looking to be a team player (for the most part).
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Just so I'm clear on this too... Penn State needs to have a conference to join, don't they?

We're still a few years beyond Penn State joining the CCHA from having the Big10 conference form.
 
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

moose97 said:
So, I hate the "conference realignment" threads, but if there ever was a time to break out ideas, it's now. I think the CCHA is the biggest question mark, as the remaining 10 teams in the WCHA could stick together fairly well. So, looking at the possibilities:

WCHA
Alaska-Anchorage
Bemidji State
Colorado College
Denver
Michigan Tech
Minnesota State
Minnesota-Duluth
Nebraska-Omaha
North Dakota
St. Cloud State

CCHA
Alaska
Bowling Green
Ferris State
Lake Superior State
Miami
Northern Michigan
Notre Dame
Western Michigan

Other geographic teams that might consider conference moves:
Alabama-Huntsville
Canisius
Mercyhurst
Niagara
RIT
Robert Morris

So, questions that immediatly pop into my head: 1) Can the CCHA survive as that version of an 8 team conference? 2) How true are the rumors we have heard about BGSU, FSU, LSSU and WMU's futures? 3) Would Miami and Notre Dame (the biggest losers IMHO in the CCHA) try to find another conference willing to take them? 4) Which of the "other" schools listed above would benefit, which would suffer? Specifically, would a school like Niagara, who seemed to move to AHA reluctantly, aggressively try to get into the CCHA, and would this spell doom for UAH?
Click to expand...

There are at least two schools that will not absolutely not tolerate that type of configuration: Notre Dame and Denver. Those two will lead a push for a new league. Miami agrees to join. Bowling Green and WMU would possibly be invited because they are DI in other sports and regional ties to Miami and ND. CC will go wherever Denver goes. Omaha, having a large rink as well as a decent metro area would go. UND, which wouldn't want to be tied to a regional Minnesota school league would go as well. The new western league would be:

East
Notre Dame
Miami
W Mich
Bowling Green

West
Denver
CC
Omaha
UND

4 games x 3 teams within division + 2 games x 4 teams in other division = 20 games. Almost half the schedule could include non-conference games.

Leaving the WCHA as

UMD
SCSU
MSU-M
Bemidji
UAA
MSU-Moorhead

The CCHA becomes

Mich Tech
NMich
LSSU
Ferris
Wayne St
UAF
 
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