Big Ten Hockey Conference

[huskyfan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

oh yeah

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The history of the UW shows Wisconsin Hockey head and shoulders above both the football and basketball teams in terms of success and they're still treated like 2nd class citizens by Alvarez.

UW would have gotten the Kohl center without football success. it was Herbie who made that happen and he LOVES b-ball that much.

There's nothing I can do about it obviously but my interest level or more accurately passion for the game won't be as high as it is with the WCHA.

The history of the UW is a rolling 20 or so year cycle and hockey is no longer what it once was. Should they get more respect? Absolutely, but many of the fans today have seen only one title in the 3rd most popular sport over that span.

Look at the reception that Eaves and Oz got when they were announced at games. These guys were heroes in their day and hardly anyone remembers or cares.

I would never underestimate what the 94 Rose Bowl and further football successes did for our athletic department and the sports culture in this city. Night and day and as the football and basketball program's suns shined brighter, the hockey team's seemed duller in comparison.

Such is life. I will be just as interested in Badger hockey in a BTHC as I am currently with the WCHA. At least we're not losing the Gophers. Losing the Sioux will be tough, but I actually hate Michigan more.

This is not the end of the world.

 

[BC/HE]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I think you'll find plenty of people to wager BTHC starts in 2014.

Can you imagine all the accusations of discrimination the WCHA and CCHA referrees against the traitors will face in the meantime? Every loss by Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State will be scrutinized by some of their fans. Having teams play for a year in a conference they are leaving is a recipe for lots of bad feelings. Playing for 3 or 4 years will be downright hostile. You think fans from these leagues hate each other now. Watch out!!!

Only positive thing will be the bonds that build amongst the teams remaining as they together root against Big Ten teams. BC's transition from the Big East to the ACC was very unpleasant. This transfer will be ugly.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Sure there is. Just show games at midnight on tape delay.

There is no money in that. Companies are only willing to pay bargain basement pricing for time slots nobody watches. The cost of producing the game would be more then they could get for showing the game.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You guys need to read what I wrote more closely.

Yes, the Big Ten will not accept partial members. That's not what this would be - it would be a new superconference that just so happens to include all the Big Ten schools - more or less like the WCHA used to be prior to the defection of Michigan, Michigan State, and Notre Dame. It would not be called the BTHC, it would be something like the original WCHA was.

I don't know why anyone would advocate for this. This would be worse for the small schools than a straight-up BTHC would be. The Big Ten schools wouldn't get to fully utilize their stature and monopoly of the BTN, since they'd have to share the proceeds (and, presumably, control) with the non-members. So, the BT would want to keep that power and control, which makes it unlikely that the non-members would agree to do so.

Hence, it is highly unlikely that this would happen. If it did, you could call the superconference many things, but it would not be called the Big Ten.

Sorry, wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the idiot who had posted above me.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I think you'll find plenty of people to wager BTHC starts in 2014.

Can you imagine all the accusations of discrimination the WCHA and CCHA referrees against the traitors will face in the meantime? Every loss by Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State will be scrutinized by some of their fans. Having teams play for a year in a conference they are leaving is a recipe for lots of bad feelings. Playing for 3 or 4 years will be downright hostile. You think fans from these leagues hate each other now. Watch out!!!

Maybe the refs will be positioning themselves for jobs as BTHC officials and we'll have accusations flying the other way. I'm sure it would be FAR more prestigious to be a BTHC official than any other. It would be the pinnacle.

 

[Dirty]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Maybe the refs will be positioning themselves for jobs as BTHC officials and we'll have accusations flying the other way. I'm sure it would be FAR more prestigious to be a BTHC official than any other. It would be the pinnacle.

Here's a plus, maybe the BTHC will take McLeod and his band of Merry Refs away from the WCHA!

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Wouldn't make more sense for the WCHA and CCHA to drop back to 22 games so the Big Ten teams can play each other and have a championship, but still be in the other leagues? That way the Big Ten network would only have to show the games when the BTN teams play agaisnt each other?

That would be a fairly reasonable solution to me. Better still if say PSU can talk the Ohio Schools into breaking off, from the CCHA and bring in a few other programs like UAH, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, and Niagara. Gives them a nice 8 team league where travel wouldn't be all that bad, and would provide room for expansion in the Midwest/Near East.

Maybe the refs will be positioning themselves for jobs as BTHC officials and we'll have accusations flying the other way. I'm sure it would be FAR more prestigious to be a BTHC official than any other. It would be the pinnacle.

Tis a thought.

 

[Beer Pong Horn]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Ok, so, assuming the BTHC happens - what then for the remainders of the leagues?

Possibilities:
1) Big Ten Championship series within the two western leagues. Already been discussed. Good outcome for smaller teams and teams with strong rivalries in conference (Minnesota), somewhat good for MSU, UM, UW and OSU, and less desirable for PSU.


2) Big Ten Men's Hockey Conference, triple-interlocking with the WCHA and the CCHA. The Big Ten could play three home series against each other, giving a 30 game series with 6 non-conference, but it might be worthwhile to limit it to 20. If the WCHA and CCHA both limited themselves to one series each (with one or two home-and-homes) and 20 total league games, they could set up an interlock. Each Big Ten team would travel once or twice and have a home series twice or once (three total) with a W/CCHA team, each W/CCHA team would have one home series and one away series against a BTHC team, and each W/CCHA team would have a home-and-home against a counterpart in the other league. That leaves each conference with 26, 28 and 28 games, and a good chance of seeing a former rival. Rather good for all Big Ten teams, not that bad for both existing leagues. It might also forestall #4 until two more Big Ten teams add hockey.

2a) BTHC interlock with only one of the leagues. It would be greedy but worthwhile for one existing conference to work out an interlock with the Big Ten, and have three or four series (one or two home) guaranteed for each of its members. Either the WCHA or CCHA would have a fair amount of benefit from such an agreement - the other would have no benefit at all. This would only really benefit some of the BTHC schools, those who had rivals in the chosen interlock league.


3) BTHC on their own, WCHA and CCHA interlock. Not particularly preferable, since it increases travel costs for both existing leagues, doesn't allow for high-profile opponents and leaves the Big Ten to fill out their schedule on their own.

3a) BTHC and HEA interlock, WCHA and CCHA interlock. Reasonably good outcome for the Big Ten and for HEA, as long as both can fill out schedules with preexisting rivals. It has precedent too, when the WCHA and HEA were both small in the 1980s. Still not a good outcome for the WCHA and CCHA, though.


4) BTHC, Super League, and W/CCHA realignment. This leaves 6 teams in the BTHC, from 6 to 8 in the Super League (suggested MU, ND, UND, SCSU, UMD, UNO, possibly two others), and a 10-12 team combined conference. Look for LSSU and possibly another Michigan school to drop hockey, with no smaller schools poised to add hockey. Okay for the Big Ten (but not that good), pretty good for the Super League, not good at all for the remainder.


(PS: where it says "interlock", insert "or scheduling agreement".)

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Ok, so, assuming the BTHC happens - what then for the remainders of the leagues?

Possibilities:
1) Big Ten Championship series within the two western leagues.

2) Big Ten Men's Hockey Conference, triple-interlocking with the WCHA and the CCHA.

2a) BTHC interlock with only one of the leagues.


3) BTHC on their own, WCHA and CCHA interlock.
3a) BTHC and HEA interlock, WCHA and CCHA interlock.

4) BTHC, Super League, and W/CCHA realignment.

None of the above.

Each of the Big Ten teams are going to have different needs and goals for the nonconference games.

My guess:

Minnesota - Will play a heavy percentage of nonconference games against Minnesota schools. This will keep travel costs down, soften damage to abandoned schools and keep turnstiles humming at Marucci.

Ohio State - Will schedule tons of cupcakes in hopes of having a winning record after being waxed in BTHC games.

Wisconsin - Will schedule mix of name opponents to draw big crowds at Kohl Center and a few cupcakes.

Michigan - Will schedule mostly home games to bring in more revenue.

Michigan State - Probably will mostly play CCHA teams.

Penn State - Will play mostly eastern cupcakes while program is developing and to keep travel costs down. As they get better probably will focus more on big name Eastern opponents.

Notre Dame - I think they're joining the BTHC, so they'll probably play nonconference games against mostly CCHA team

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

None of the above.

Each of the Big Ten teams are going to have different needs and goals for the nonconference games.

My guess:

Minnesota - Will play a heavy percentage of nonconference games against Minnesota schools. This will keep travel costs down, soften damage to abandoned schools and keep turnstiles humming at Marucci.

Ohio State - Will schedule tons of cupcakes in hopes of having a winning record after being waxed in BTHC games.

Wisconsin - Will schedule mix of name opponents to draw big crowds at Kohl Center and a few cupcakes.

Michigan - Will schedule mostly home games to bring in more revenue.

Michigan State - Probably will mostly play CCHA teams.

Penn State - Will play mostly eastern cupcakes while program is developing and to keep travel costs down. As they get better probably will focus more on big name Eastern opponents.

Notre Dame - I think they're joining the BTHC, so they'll probably play nonconference games against mostly CCHA team

Why are people so certain about Notre Dame joining just BTHC? For the last time the B10 will not let Notre Dame join any conference unless they go all in. Notre Dame is more likely to join HE than B10 unless their alumni want to give up their football independence.

 

[Patman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

For the last time the B10 will not let Notre Dame join any conference unless they go all in.

Yeah... and why do you believe it? All these things go away with a simple vote... its a matter of wanting it to occur. If they want it, it will be done... they'll define the expedient reason afterwards.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Yeah... and why do you believe it? All these things go away with a simple vote... its a matter of wanting it to occur. If they want it, it will be done... they'll define the expedient reason afterwards.

Because the Big Ten wants ND football, why not use the chip of Big Ten hockey to help that cause? It's all or nothing for the Big Ten, there are no and have never been any associate members of the Big Ten.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Anyone who thinks Notre Dame is even going to be allowed to be discussed in the Big Ten Hockey Conference is drunk at the wheel. As long as they choose to stay out in football they will be out period. This is an absolute, and I dont speak in absolutes for the most part. It will not happen, not now, not ever.

The fact that dggoddard still seems to think it is a remote possibility tends to make me doubt every thought and opinion he has on the subject. It has been said every time this discussion comes up, it has been said probably 30 times IN THIS THREAD not to mention the other threads, and it is said by everyone who has any affiliation to a Big Ten school...take it to the friggin bank, unless Notre Dame agrees to join the Big Ten in football (thereby becoming a named member of the conference) they will have nothing to do with any hockey conference. They will get to schedule games and that is it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Because the Big Ten wants ND football, why not use the chip of Big Ten hockey to help that cause? It's all or nothing for the Big Ten, there are no and have never been any associate members of the Big Ten.

In other words...follow the dollar.

 

[Slap Shot]

Is it out of the realistic realm of possibilities that should this force realignment that the BT teams unite while not calling the conference TBT and thereby being able to have non-BT teams?

 

[KC8NIY]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Did they say they considered the CCHA and chose not to join? Maybe they haven't talked to them or have not been invited to join yet, but it still could join? I am sure at some point the Big Ten will have a hockey conference, but at this point we don't know when that will be.

There have absolutely been discussions between the CCHA and PSU administration. We're left to infer the reasoning behind PSU not joining.

why would the ccha even consider allowing PSU in for 2 yrs?!? there is going to be a BTHC. why would the ccha allow themselves to slut around and give penn st someplace to play?

makes no sense.

The CCHA would almost have to extend an offer once it became aware of PSU's intent to go DI. Not doing so just expedites the development of the BTHC with the W at 12 teams and no real reason for anyone out east to admit them. It was in their best interest, even with the knowledge that it may not be a permanent solution. They can sell easily try to sell PSU on the advantages of membership within the conference, with the ultimate goal of having them think twice about the benefits of breaking off in the future. The CCHA's goal is entirely self preservation, and whatever means they need to incorporate to accomplish that. They would have been crazy to dismiss PSU entirely knowing the possible ramifications.

There's nothing I can do about it obviously but my interest level or more accurately passion for the game won't be as high as it is with the WCHA.

Change is difficult, isn't it? The majority of us with vested interests in the outcome of this discussion feel the same way. I'd rather not lose the chance to see Michigan play NMU or Ferris every year at the expense of adding the likes of PSU (or Indiana, Illinois, etc..). However, in time, new rivalries will be developed and life moves on. Yes, I understand it may be a little different scenario for WI/MN with the loss of DU/UND, but the concept is the same. So long as non-conference scheduling options exist to continue those rivalries, albeit to a lesser extent, I'm resigned to the belief that this isn't entirely a bad thing in the eyes of my fandom. In due time, PSU and any others will replace my current regards for seeing our CCHA foes multiple times a year.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

There have absolutely been discussions between the CCHA and PSU administration. We're left to infer the reasoning behind PSU not joining.


The CCHA would almost have to extend an offer once it became aware of PSU's intent to go DI. Not doing so just expedites the development of the BTHC with the W at 12 teams and no real reason for anyone out east to admit them. It was in their best interest, even with the knowledge that it may not be a permanent solution. They can sell easily try to sell PSU on the advantages of membership within the conference, with the ultimate goal of having them think twice about the benefits of breaking off in the future. The CCHA's goal is entirely self preservation, and whatever means they need to incorporate to accomplish that. They would have been crazy to dismiss PSU entirely knowing the possible ramifications.



Change is difficult, isn't it? The majority of us with vested interests in the outcome of this discussion feel the same way. I'd rather not lose the chance to see Michigan play NMU or Ferris every year at the expense of adding the likes of PSU (or Indiana, Illinois, etc..). However, in time, new rivalries will be developed and life moves on. Yes, I understand it may be a little different scenario for WI/MN with the loss of DU/UND, but the concept is the same. So long as non-conference scheduling options exist to continue those rivalries, albeit to a lesser extent, I'm resigned to the belief that this isn't entirely a bad thing in the eyes of my fandom. In due time, PSU and any others will replace my current regards for seeing our CCHA foes multiple times a year.

yes change is sometimes difficult but losing Denver (7-time NCAA Champs) and North Dakota (7-time NCAA Champs and bitter rivals) is just unexcusable

and to lose them to the following????
to PSU (who? new team who cares, I don't even give a chit about their football team), OSU (who?, no NCAA success whatsoever), MSU (So what, 2 titles and still don't care about them), Michigan (never cared about them in hockey accept to say I can't wait until someone gets to 10 NCAA Titles to knock michigan off their perch for winning in the 50's when there were like 6 teams playing)

In order to build rivalries that would match Denver, Nodak, Minnesota, CC, Michigan Tech (check the 60's and 70's with their 3 titles)

UW would have to play 3 consecutive decades against these bums and not only that, but PSU, MSU, OSU, and Mich would have to actually have enough success against Wisconsin and Minnesota to create a spark, and enough NCAA success in that time to hold interest.

I'm not buying it. and I think you'll see more people in the stands for UW-UMD, UW-DU, UW-Nodak, UW-SCSU than for games against MSU, PSU, OSU, and Michigan...

UNLESS of course, Barry Alvarez markets the team to the UW football crowd which they seem to be doing more of, and it will ruin the live experience for me totally cause UW football fans generally are not people I want to be sitting next to at any kind of game (see camp randall hockey game, and morons doing the 4th quarter jump around bs)

hockey has a unique identity. it's awesome that Michigan Tech kicked the assess of the big boys once in a while, awesome that RPI and Bowling Green have won NCAA titles.

I don't want to see it marketed in any way like football or basketball, this could start that.

and once that happens you can say goodbye to the Michigan Tech's, RPI's, Bowling Green's EVER winning NCAA titles. hell, it may even eventually weather away Nodak and DU's chances as the recruits will nearly all want to play for B10 schools given the exposure there.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

UNLESS of course, Barry Alvarez markets the team to the UW football crowd which they seem to be doing more of, and it will ruin the live experience for me totally cause UW football fans generally are not people I want to be sitting next to at any kind of game (see camp randall hockey game, and morons doing the 4th quarter jump around bs) hockey has a unique identity.

I agree with this. The potential football crossover fans is what I think is driving this for the AD's.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Anyone who thinks Notre Dame is even going to be allowed to be discussed in the Big Ten Hockey Conference is drunk at the wheel. As long as they choose to stay out in football they will be out period. This is an absolute, and I dont speak in absolutes for the most part. It will not happen, not now, not ever.

According to the poster on Gopher Puck Live, the announcement is coming within 27 days when the next Big Ten meetings occur. The hockey issues are already on the agenda.

Notre Dame with a new arena is too tempting to pass up. You act like it was written in the Bible.

"Thou shall not invite a non-Big Ten team into our new hockey conference so we can make more money."