Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I'm sure you're right, but I was going on the assumption that the real $$$ is with the BTN. Whether hockey ticket sales are or are not shared among 6 or 12 teams is small potatoes compared to the pool of BTN subscriber fees.

True, but the question with regard to the BTN, in not total revenue but is the marginal increase in revenue to the BTN as a result of the hockey. When you look at it that way, conference tournaments and ticket revenue sharing begins to be of similar magnitude.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

True, but the question with regard to the BTN, in not total revenue but is the marginal increase in revenue to the BTN as a result of the hockey. When you look at it that way, conference tournaments and ticket revenue sharing begins to be of similar magnitude....

...both of which (marginal BTN and ticket sharing) are too small to justify the huge start-up cost for hockey.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

...both of which (marginal BTN and ticket sharing) are too small to justify the huge start-up cost for hockey.

I agree and I suspect that is the majority opinion of the slightly informed here.

My feeling is that the bigger problem to actually having a program is that even with both of those plus the general revenues generated from the hockey program wouldn't be enough to offset the annual operating costs of a hockey program (plus the additional costs of complying with Title IX by adding opportunities for women).

The problem of the initial start-up costs to start up a program could be overcome though a significant fund-raising campaign and private donations, but it would take a brave AD to add more non-revenue programs to an already stretched budget.

In a way Harley is correct, the BTN might be the answer. Increased BTN revenues might allow them to add a hockey program (release budgetary pressures), but they will never add a hockey program in order to increase BTN revenues.

 

[samboni]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

The BTN coverage of hockey will be a loss-leader for the network. It will provide live programming with little or not additional revenue either through significant advertising revenue or increased households receiving the network on their cable or satellite systems. If they intend to cablecast as many as 40 games per season with a production cost in excess of $40,000/game that's a lot of upfront cost.

Yet despite the probabilty of the cablecasts being a loss-leader, the overall profitability of the BTN is what is driving this, as most have agreed. There are still more questions regarding the Big6HC than answers.

But we do know some answers already, such as, Wisconsin can no longer finish in 7th place, Michigan State won't see anymore 10th finishes, and Ohio State, well, they are now guaranteed a top-six finish in their league each and every year. That's great progress for those programs before they even play a game in their new league!!!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I think the Canadian audience is potentially very interesting. Canadians are rabid about hockey...both as per capita percent and intensity. Although the CHL fans are baised towards their brand...I could see it growing beyond the CHL if different quality hockey were televised. Remember the CHL is very young...they can join when they're 15 and pretty much get the boot when they're 20. So the NCAA could easily bring a differented exciting brand of hockey north. We'll see, but I wouldn't be surprised if it catches on in circles. And regarding big ten hockey, Illinois is the school that represents the big prize.

Again, good stuff on the article. I wish these other freeloader posters spent that kind of time and energy.

UMN will make out fine on the deal.

As others said though...this isn't likely to be an incremental win in hockey for Minnesota.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

...both of which (marginal BTN and ticket sharing) are too small to justify the huge start-up cost for hockey.

Which is why attributing the BTN as the root cause of the BTHC is a mistake. The root cause is a wealthy donor for Penn State.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

Which is why attributing the BTN as the root cause of the BTHC is a mistake. The root cause is a wealthy donor for Penn State.

I don't agree. Just because PSU formed a team did not mean that the BTHC had to form. PSU could have slid into the spot in the CCHA and become their 12th team, but they didn't and the other 5 B10 hockey schools didn't make them. To me, the true root cause the the arrogance and greed of the B10 schools towards the other schools they were "forced" to share the pie with. I think that the B10 schools viewed the WCHA 6 figure dispersement checks and asked themselves why should other schools get that when we could just keep it for ourselves, why should we be subsidizing those other programs (with a few exceptions).

 

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I don't agree. Just because PSU formed a team did not mean that the BTHC had to form. PSU could have slid into the spot in the CCHA and become their 12th team, but they didn't and the other 5 B10 hockey schools didn't make them. To me, the true root cause the the arrogance and greed of the B10 schools towards the other schools they were "forced" to share the pie with. I think that the B10 schools viewed the WCHA 6 figure dispersement checks and asked themselves why should other schools get that when we could just keep it for ourselves, why should we be subsidizing those other programs (with a few exceptions).

It didn't have to form but there never has been sport where 6 Big Ten teams were eligible to play in their own Big Ten conference. It just has never happened.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

As others said though...this isn't likely to be an incremental win in hockey for Minnesota.

Correct. I don't think the Gophers will see much of an impact at all. Not much will change for them. And the WCHA is likely strong enough to keep the rest of the Minnesota schools going strong. Maybe a slight drop for them at the loss of the Gophers and WI. I mean look at Bemidji's rise to D1. They needed the Gophers and bigger schools to come to town as well to help get their program off the ground.

 

[Sundance]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I want to go on record as fully supporting a Big Ten Hockey conference for Michigan State, Ohio State and Minnesota, and maybe throw in Wisconsin's women to make it competitive. That can leave a couple pretty decent conferences with Michigan and Penn State in the CCHA, Wisconsin in the WCHA. Why not?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I'm sure you're right, but I was going on the assumption that the real $$$ is with the BTN. Whether hockey ticket sales are or are not shared among 6 or 12 teams is small potatoes compared to the pool of BTN subscriber fees.

I think the point (this is more relevant to your last post) more is that these teams, unlike a lot of startups, can foot the bill and eat the loss because the revenue they will get from the BTN will not only be a ton, but should be rising. So if there is some alumni that like the idea and they can find a way to fund a place to play the ADs wont be held back by the fear the teams will fold because the Big Ten schools have a constantly high and growing money stream coming in. (which will grow in 2016 when ABC/ESPN pays through the nose to keep them)

Does this mean teams will start up...no. But it does make it a heckuva lot easier and more feasible. It is like the argument you hear in baseball...teams like the Red Sox and Yankees make so much money they can afford to throw money at players and have them fail or not live up to expectations because overall their revenue will more than cover the mistake. If Iowa made a team and they lost a million bucks every year for a decade it wouldnt even make a blip of a dent in the profits their AD would be making off of everything else.

The fact that they will be showing in all those provinces in Canada is pretty awesome...and adds potential eyes to schools that would start up as well.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I want to go on record as fully supporting a Big Ten Hockey conference for Michigan State, Ohio State and Minnesota, and maybe throw in Wisconsin's women to make it competitive. That can leave a couple pretty decent conferences with Michigan and Penn State in the CCHA, Wisconsin in the WCHA. Why not?

That idea is so ridiculous I dont think it even needs to be listed the reasons it makes zero sense.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I think the point (this is more relevant to your last post) more is that these teams, unlike a lot of startups, can foot the bill and eat the loss because the revenue they will get from the BTN will not only be a ton, but should be rising. So if there is some alumni that like the idea and they can find a way to fund a place to play the ADs wont be held back by the fear the teams will fold because the Big Ten schools have a constantly high and growing money stream coming in. (which will grow in 2016 when ABC/ESPN pays through the nose to keep them)

Does this mean teams will start up...no. But it does make it a heckuva lot easier and more feasible. It is like the argument you hear in baseball...teams like the Red Sox and Yankees make so much money they can afford to throw money at players and have them fail or not live up to expectations because overall their revenue will more than cover the mistake. If Iowa made a team and they lost a million bucks every year for a decade it wouldnt even make a blip of a dent in the profits their AD would be making off of everything else.

The fact that they will be showing in all those provinces in Canada is pretty awesome...and adds potential eyes to schools that would start up as well.

True. I think instead of needing the full ~$100 million to start up a hockey team in ten years, an AD at one of the schools wanting to leave a "permanent mark" could try for a $40-$50 million fundraising drive or something and just take the rest out of profits for a dozen years.

Whether that's something an AD *wants* to do at some point instead of stacking another 10k in football seats or another row of luxury boxes is an entirely different question.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I don't agree. Just because PSU formed a team did not mean that the BTHC had to form. PSU could have slid into the spot in the CCHA and become their 12th team, but they didn't and the other 5 B10 hockey schools didn't make them. To me, the true root cause the the arrogance and greed of the B10 schools towards the other schools they were "forced" to share the pie with. I think that the B10 schools viewed the WCHA 6 figure dispersement checks and asked themselves why should other schools get that when we could just keep it for ourselves, why should we be subsidizing those other programs (with a few exceptions).

I think wisconsin and their AD felt that way. In Minnesota the Gophers loved the fact they were subsidizing the other Minnesota schools because it makes them more important. I think even the Minnesota fans would agree they love to let everybody know how important they are. That is why they really don't want the B10 conference, but they are not going to go against the hand that feeds them so they have little choice but to go along.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I think wisconsin and their AD felt that way. In Minnesota the Gophers loved the fact they were subsidizing the other Minnesota schools because it makes them more important. I think even the Minnesota fans would agree they love to let everybody know how important they are. That is why they really don't want the B10 conference, but they are not going to go against the hand that feeds them so they have little choice but to go along.

I wasn't aware there were other schools in Minnesota.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

I think wisconsin and their AD felt that way. In Minnesota the Gophers loved the fact they were subsidizing the other Minnesota schools because it makes them more important. I think even the Minnesota fans would agree they love to let everybody know how important they are. That is why they really don't want the B10 conference, but they are not going to go against the hand that feeds them so they have little choice but to go along.

We dont have to tell you...just wait for either a Sioux fan to come around and tell us how the WCHA prefers us over them or some small Minnesota school to complain about the Gophers (back when they made Final Fives) always getting the night game and you get the idea

Hey waterlover, if you are reading this were you at the Sports Show yesterday? (Wednesday) TB make sure he gets that message

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

We dont have to tell you...just wait for either a Sioux fan to come around and tell us how the WCHA prefers us over them or some small Minnesota school to complain about the Gophers (back when they made Final Fives) always getting the night game and you get the idea

Do not pretend THE VAST WCHA CONSPIRACY doesn't exist!!!!!

 

[Handyman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

Do not pretend THE VAST WCHA CONSPIRACY doesn't exist!!!!!

Pretend...I INVENTED IT...well actually your boy Hennesey did but I named it

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

Do not pretend THE VAST WCHA CONSPIRACY doesn't exist!!!!!

The Phantom Menace.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt III - Revenge of the Sith.

BTHC is old news.

We should stop wasting our time talking about it and spend the rest of our time trying to spread stupid rumors about America East, Big East, GLIAC, Ivy League, Liberty League, MAC, Northeast Conference, Northeast Ten, Northern Sun, and Patriot League all forming their own hockey conferences. Who wants to do meth?