Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[yooper(UP) hockey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Does UAH join the CCHA before or after ND and Miami bail?

Either way the CCHA is going to be along way from being a top notch confrence in two years from now.

 

[MichFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Ohio State has the most to gain from the BTHC. They SHOULD be able to get better recruits which should lead to more wins at the expense of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I couldn't disagree more. Ohio State is the most screwed by this.

The bottom line is that Ohio is not a hockey state and doesn't have a ton of local talent as a natural recruiting base. Not only will Ohio State always trail Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in that regard, but they will also trail Penn State. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are legit hockey towns with longstanding fan bases. Can you say that for Columbus? You certainly can't say it for Cleveland or Cincinnati.

And no, this isn't an anti-Ohio rant by a Michigan fan. I have nephews in Columbus who played AA hockey. I know what the scene is like there. Even if kids touch hockey in the first place, a lot of the good ones leave when they get older because they're pushed towards "real" sports (in the local mind) like football or basketball.

The worst natural recruiting base means that Ohio State will likely be a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Sure, some kids might be willing to play hockey at Ohio State just to play in the Big Ten...just like some kids are willing to play football at Indiana just to play in the Big Ten. And the results will be the same: finishing mid-conference once every ten years will be an achievement. At least in the CCHA, Ohio State could expect to finish middle of the pack every year.

If you're from Michigan and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Michigan or Michigan State. If you're from Minnesota and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Minnesota or Wisconsin. Ohio State will get the leftovers, at best. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it will help them at the gate. More games against Big Ten teams with recognized names equals more casual fans in the seats equals more money. But Ohio State already has tons of money. More athletic money than any other school except Texas, as a matter of fact. If throwing money at a problem would make Ohio State better at hockey, they would have done it long ago. I'm sure that the athletic department is thrilled about being in a BTHC because they will have more revenue to offset expenses, but it won't make a beans of difference on the ice.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I couldn't disagree more. Ohio State is the most screwed by this.

The bottom line is that Ohio is not a hockey state and doesn't have a ton of local talent as a natural recruiting base. Not only will Ohio State always trail Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in that regard, but they will also trail Penn State. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are legit hockey towns with longstanding fan bases. Can you say that for Columbus? You certainly can't say it for Cleveland or Cincinnati.

And no, this isn't an anti-Ohio rant by a Michigan fan. I have nephews in Columbus who played AA hockey. I know what the scene is like there. Even if kids touch hockey in the first place, a lot of the good ones leave when they get older because they're pushed towards "real" sports (in the local mind) like football or basketball.

The worst natural recruiting base means that Ohio State will likely be a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Sure, some kids might be willing to play hockey at Ohio State just to play in the Big Ten...just like some kids are willing to play football at Indiana just to play in the Big Ten. And the results will be the same: finishing mid-conference once every ten years will be an achievement. At least in the CCHA, Ohio State could expect to finish middle of the pack every year.

If you're from Michigan and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Michigan or Michigan State. If you're from Minnesota and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Minnesota or Wisconsin. Ohio State will get the leftovers, at best. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it will help them at the gate. More games against Big Ten teams with recognized names equals more casual fans in the seats equals more money. But Ohio State already has tons of money. More athletic money than any other school except Texas, as a matter of fact. If throwing money at a problem would make Ohio State better at hockey, they would have done it long ago. I'm sure that the athletic department is thrilled about being in a BTHC because they will have more revenue to offset expenses, but it won't make a beans of difference on the ice.

One caveat to this is that Coach Oz has good connections for recruiting in Western Canada. There's no reason to think that their recruits need to come from Minnesota or Michigan.

He also has a proven track record of getting kids ready for the next level, especially defensemen.

Finally, not sure how easy it is to get the BTN in Moose Jaw, but if it can be gotten, that allows those kids to be seen back home.

I got to know Mark a bit while he was here in Madison and I wouldn't bet against him. Very focused guy to say the least.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

One caveat to this is that Coach Oz has good connections for recruiting in Western Canada. There's no reason to think that their recruits need to come from Minnesota or Michigan.

He also has a proven track record of getting kids ready for the next level, especially defensemen.

Finally, not sure how easy it is to get the BTN in Moose Jaw, but if it can be gotten, that allows those kids to be seen back home.

I got to know Mark a bit while he was here in Madison and I wouldn't bet against him. Very focused guy to say the least.

In September 2008 the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission officially approved a request by Shaw Communications to allow carriage of the Big Ten Network in Canada on digital cable television which includes service to British Columbia and Alberta, with smaller systems in Saskatchewan (Moose Jaw), Manitoba, Northwestern Ontario and Hamilton, Ontario.

EDIT: BTN also became available on Rogers Communications in Ontario and New Brunswick in 2009 and Cogeco Cable last year.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

What I am talking about here is why I see UNO as a sleeping giant that is being awakened. It's the 4rd largest metro area in the country after Minneapolis, Boston, and Denver with college hockey

Not so fast...

Albany (RPI, Union), Rochester (RIT), Buffalo (Niagara), Providence (Providence), Columbus (Ohio State), and Pittsburgh (Robert Morris) are all bigger metro areas than Omaha. That isn't even including Detroit.

One caveat to this is that Coach Oz has good connections for recruiting in Western Canada. There's no reason to think that their recruits need to come from Minnesota or Michigan.

He also has a proven track record of getting kids ready for the next level, especially defensemen.

Finally, not sure how easy it is to get the BTN in Moose Jaw, but if it can be gotten, that allows those kids to be seen back home.

I got to know Mark a bit while he was here in Madison and I wouldn't bet against him. Very focused guy to say the least.

Exactly. As I've said before, Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin are going to get the same kids that they always got. Where the BTHC will help Ohio State is that kids that may have chosen to go to Duluth or Miami before, may now choose Ohio State. Plus having a coach with solid recruiting connections into Canada will be enormous.

Again, I'm not saying Ohio State will definitely be a power. They have to invest and recruit wisely and be a smart program, but the Big Ten will allow them the resources to do this. That is why they have the most to gain, not that they will definitely gain the most.

Given that, if I were a Michigan, Minnesota or Wisconsin fan, I would be hoping with all hope that they don't. They need doormats, or they will get beat up within their league and you'll only see 1 or 2 Big Ten schools in the NCAA Tournament on a yearly basis. Ohio State's potential success equals Michigan or Minnesota or Wisconsin's potential mediocrity. The same could be said for Penn State. That's why, at least IMO, Michigan, Minnesota, Michigan State and Wisconsin have the most to lose w/the BTHC. They were doing fine in their own conferences. We'll see what happens in the B1G.

 

[I Want Shegos]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

While I agree that Ohio State will be behind those other Big 10 schools, I think being in that conference could tip some of those prospects who would go to the middle of the road CCHA schools to choose Ohio State instead.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

People here that think schools with big rinks will only come to Alaska to play every 4 years are fooling themselves. The exempt games the program receives means playing two additional home games. $$$$$ ...

Or they could just play the two home games and not pay the costs to travel to Alaska.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Yes, this is consistent with NCAA rules in other sports for traveling to Hawaii and Alaska. In football, any school that travels to Hawaii is allowed to schedule 13 games for that season (instead of the usual 12). Basketball has a similar exemption. Whether or not you're in the same conference as the school in Hawaii or Alaska is irrelevant - if you travel there, you get the exemption.

If you travel there <em>and play a team from there</em>. If you go there for a tournament, you only get a tournament exemption when you're playing other teams—something that bit Merrimack in the *** a few years back (where they were only able to exempt one of their two games in Alaska because they'd already used their once-in-four-years exemption and had to cancel a game IIRC with Michigan).

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

That's why, at least IMO, Michigan, Minnesota, Michigan State and Wisconsin have the most to lose w/the BTHC. They were doing fine in their own conferences. We'll see what happens in the B1G.

With Lucia's contract extention, Minnesota will be doing fine for years to come.

I understand your point. The recent decline in interest and in ticket sales for Gopher hockey can be attrubuted to the UM not any fault of the WCHA. Unless being too good for UM can be considered a WCHA fault.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The largest portion for the current RPI is opponents opponents Winning%

Having the largest multiplier doesn't make a particular component make the largest contribution. You have to look at the degree of variation in that component in conjunction with the multiplier to determine which (if any) is the most significant.

 

[Alton]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If you travel there <em>and play a team from there</em>. If you go there for a tournament, you only get a tournament exemption when you're playing other teams—something that bit Merrimack in the *** a few years back (where they were only able to exempt one of their two games in Alaska because they'd already used their once-in-four-years exemption and had to cancel a game IIRC with Michigan).

I think you have that backwards--it was Michigan who had to cancel a game as a result of not being able to exempt a game played in Alaska.

If you look at recent schedules, though, they have solved this problem. Both Alaska and Alaska-Anchorage hosted tournaments this year involving the 2 Alaska teams plus two teams from the lower 48. On October 8-9, UAA hosted a "tournament" with Alaska, Air Force and North Dakota. Alaska-Anchorage and Alaska played Air Force and North Dakota, and the two teams from the lower 48 were able to play 2 exempt games. The next weekend, Alaska hosted a "tournament" involving Alaska-Anchorage, Union and Colorado College. If you add the 2-game series between Alaska and Alaska-Anchorage, the schools in Alaska were each able to play all 6 of their allotted non-conference games in the state of Alaska.

The same thing happened last season (with Michigan, Mercyhurst, Robert Morris and Rensselaer) and the year before (with Northeastern, Connecticut, Mercyhurst and Maine). There is no reason this shoulnd't be able to continue indefinitely. It doesn't really make them any money, but I know that Michigan's coaching staff has repeatedly said that they like playing in Alaska, especially early in the season, because they see advantages in the extra 2 games as well as the team-building experience of being on an extended road trip. I think that of all schools in the CCHA & WCHA, the Alaska schools will have the fewest adjustments to make.

 

[Sterling Cooper]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I couldn't disagree more. Ohio State is the most screwed by this.

The bottom line is that Ohio is not a hockey state and doesn't have a ton of local talent as a natural recruiting base. Not only will Ohio State always trail Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in that regard, but they will also trail Penn State. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are legit hockey towns with longstanding fan bases. Can you say that for Columbus? You certainly can't say it for Cleveland or Cincinnati.

And no, this isn't an anti-Ohio rant by a Michigan fan. I have nephews in Columbus who played AA hockey. I know what the scene is like there. Even if kids touch hockey in the first place, a lot of the good ones leave when they get older because they're pushed towards "real" sports (in the local mind) like football or basketball.

The worst natural recruiting base means that Ohio State will likely be a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Sure, some kids might be willing to play hockey at Ohio State just to play in the Big Ten...just like some kids are willing to play football at Indiana just to play in the Big Ten. And the results will be the same: finishing mid-conference once every ten years will be an achievement. At least in the CCHA, Ohio State could expect to finish middle of the pack every year.

If you're from Michigan and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Michigan or Michigan State. If you're from Minnesota and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Minnesota or Wisconsin. Ohio State will get the leftovers, at best. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it will help them at the gate. More games against Big Ten teams with recognized names equals more casual fans in the seats equals more money. But Ohio State already has tons of money. More athletic money than any other school except Texas, as a matter of fact. If throwing money at a problem would make Ohio State better at hockey, they would have done it long ago. I'm sure that the athletic department is thrilled about being in a BTHC because they will have more revenue to offset expenses, but it won't make a beans of difference on the ice.

Interesting argument, and I get where you're coming from. I would argue, however, that one only needs to look at Miami of Ohio's rise to counter it. Miami of Ohio isn't rolling on Ohio talent. If Oz can leverage the greater exposure of the BTHC & BTN into a regional/Canadian recruiting base, he can compete. Hell, Nebraska isn't a top recruiting hotbed for football talent, but they've done alright over the years.

 

[fangers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I couldn't disagree more. Ohio State is the most screwed by this.

The bottom line is that Ohio is not a hockey state and doesn't have a ton of local talent as a natural recruiting base. Not only will Ohio State always trail Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in that regard, but they will also trail Penn State. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are legit hockey towns with longstanding fan bases. Can you say that for Columbus? You certainly can't say it for Cleveland or Cincinnati.

And no, this isn't an anti-Ohio rant by a Michigan fan. I have nephews in Columbus who played AA hockey. I know what the scene is like there. Even if kids touch hockey in the first place, a lot of the good ones leave when they get older because they're pushed towards "real" sports (in the local mind) like football or basketball.

The worst natural recruiting base means that Ohio State will likely be a perennial cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Sure, some kids might be willing to play hockey at Ohio State just to play in the Big Ten...just like some kids are willing to play football at Indiana just to play in the Big Ten. And the results will be the same: finishing mid-conference once every ten years will be an achievement. At least in the CCHA, Ohio State could expect to finish middle of the pack every year.

If you're from Michigan and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Michigan or Michigan State. If you're from Minnesota and want to play in the Big Ten and you're good enough, you're going to Minnesota or Wisconsin. Ohio State will get the leftovers, at best. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it will help them at the gate. More games against Big Ten teams with recognized names equals more casual fans in the seats equals more money. But Ohio State already has tons of money. More athletic money than any other school except Texas, as a matter of fact. If throwing money at a problem would make Ohio State better at hockey, they would have done it long ago. I'm sure that the athletic department is thrilled about being in a BTHC because they will have more revenue to offset expenses, but it won't make a beans of difference on the ice.

Couldn't disagree more. Ohio State faces those same recuiting disadvantages NOW, so being in the Big Ten will help attract kids they might not get as members of the CCHA.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Regardless of the supposed economic gains, if the formation of the BTHC eventually leads to less opporunities to play the likes of UND, SCSU, UMD, BSU and even DU it will be a fail for many long-term college hockey fans in MN. I don't think any newly created rivalry will ever match the intensity of playing UND - even in years when the teams only play twice and when the Gophers have not been up to their best. And believe it or not, series against DU have been amongst some of the most raucous at Mariuccui the past several years. I also doubt any BT conference tournament -regardless of location - will ever generate the buzz of the WCHA tournament at the X.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If the CCHA wasn't dead before, you can stick a fork in it now.

http://detroit.sbnation.com/2011/3/23/2067676/michigan-state-hockey-coach-tom-anastos-danton-cole

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

What I am talking about here is why I see UNO as a sleeping giant that is being awakened. ... The smart fans around here recognize this and have been willing to, and, will rally around the UNO flag. I can and have seen it happening. The local media coverage of UNO hockey around here by television and the paper now is at an all time high.

I agree that Omaha is like a sleeping giant that is being awakened. Grand Forks, North Dakota and UND has evolved into hockey town/school. Omaha and UNO seems to be transitioning into a hockey town/school also. What may speed things up a little is UNO dropping football. UNO will become a hockey school. Also having the USHL Lancers in Omaha helps. The major difference between Grand Forks and Omaha is that 1.2 Million people live within 50 miles of Omaha. If hockey is the main event in town attendance should continue to increase.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/attendance/division-i-men/2010-2011

UNO is now 5th in college hockey attendance, with 7,994 fans per game, just behind 4th ranked Minnesota.* Would not be supprised if UNO's attendance continues to increase. Actually we should expect it to increase. I would also expect UNO fans to buy up a lot of WCHA final 5 tickets in the future.

* Minnesota would be ranked 3rd and UNO 4th in attendance behind Wisconsin and North Dakota if Michigan's outdoor game is excluded from the statistics.

 

[Skeeterman]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The Pig Ten Hockey Conference is a fricking joke!! It's a bad deal for college hockey, and other schools should refuse to play them. It will be fun to watch it collapse, though.

 

[Rhett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If the CCHA wasn't dead before, you can stick a fork in it now.

http://detroit.sbnation.com/2011/3/23/2067676/michigan-state-hockey-coach-tom-anastos-danton-cole

How does that finish killing the CCHA? He was an MSU guy and people assumed he'd move on before the schism was even official.

Michigan and friends still have 2 seasons in the CCHA. They will have a qualified new commissioner before, during, and after the transition.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Regardless of the supposed economic gains, if the formation of the BTHC eventually leads to less opporunities to play the likes of UND, SCSU, UMD, BSU and even DU it will be a fail for many long-term college hockey fans in MN. I don't think any newly created rivalry will ever match the intensity of playing UND - even in years when the teams only play twice and when the Gophers have not been up to their best. And believe it or not, series against DU have been amongst some of the most raucous at Mariuccui the past several years. I also doubt any BT conference tournament -regardless of location - will ever generate the buzz of the WCHA tournament at the X.

Ok.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How does that finish killing the CCHA? He was an MSU guy and people assumed he'd move on before the schism was even official.

Michigan and friends still have 2 seasons in the CCHA. They will have a qualified new commissioner before, during, and after the transition.

If by "moving on," you mean quitting with zero notice at the most fragile time in the league's history.