Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

It'd probably split like this:
Big Ten: 10 home / 10 away
WCHA: 4 home / 4 away
Other non-conf: 6 home (8 if two of those away games are at Anchorage)
Total: 20-22 home games

This is a net neutral to net positive revenue situation for MN if they schedule it this way (and this assumes they are obligated to play those 8 WCHA games - if not, they could play even more games at home).

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

It will be to accommodate the Big Ten's need to have four teams always in the NCAA tourney. For example, the .500 rule will go bye, bye.

I don't think so. The .500 rule was put in place when Wisconsin made the tournament with a below .500 record in 2008.

The Big Ten will not always have 4 teams in the NCAA Tournament. I would argue that they would typically get between 2 or 3 teams in any given year. There will be years when they get 4, and years when they only get 1. The NCAA isn't going to fall all over themselves to try to get as many Big Ten teams in the tournament. They don't do it now, and they won't when there is a BTHC.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

And who's to say PSU will ever get things going? A BTHC team doesn't = success. Look at OSU. They've been around for a while. Pbbbbbt. Nada.

GodDAM I hate the BTHC.

Ohio State has the most to gain from the BTHC. They SHOULD be able to get better recruits which should lead to more wins at the expense of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Ohio State has the most to gain from the BTHC. They SHOULD be able to get better recruits which should lead to more wins at the expense of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Okay, I'll bite. What is your rationale for this train of thought?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Ohio State has the most to gain from the BTHC. They SHOULD be able to get better recruits which should lead to more wins at the expense of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I agree. And I asked this on another board, and got no response:

If the teams that "need" those bigger programs fold, then they are in a position to fold anyway, and SHOULD fold.....why does PSU need the BTHC? Why can't they cull some teams from bloated conferences (such as WCHA/HE) and start a new conference? Hmmmmmm? Moneygrab.

* it all. I hate it. I won't be some reactionary and renounce my fandom, but this displeases me greatly.

Edit: Red Cows: because they haven't done squat. They get to suck the teat of MN/MI/MSU/WI in a single conference. Exposure, finances, etc. Too bad it greatly hurts the smaller schools of the conference they came from.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Okay, I'll bite. What is your rationale for this train of thought?

How can you argue with that reasoning? Osiecki is in the perfect spot for the B1GHC formation. He will have access to better recruits from Minnesota and out west because of the added exposure to his program and the fact that he can tell a kid from edina or hill-murray, we play at Mariucci every year. They may not want you but you'll get the chance to show them why the *** up.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How can you argue with that reasoning? Osiecki is in the perfect spot for the B1GHC formation. He will have access to better recruits from Minnesota and out west because of the added exposure to his program and the fact that he can tell a kid from edina or hill-murray, we play at Mariucci every year. They may not want you but you'll get the chance to show them why the *** up.

And for the first time in quite a long while, I can't tell if you are kidding.

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Ohio State has the most to gain from the BTHC. They SHOULD be able to get better recruits which should lead to more wins at the expense of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin.

Ohio State is kind of the forgotten child of Big Ten teams in the CCHA. Havent really made a big splash on a consistent basis in league play and their attendance issues/arena size has been noted previously. The thing here is now they can market "Big Ten." The Big Ten is now the only league in college hockey that is recognizable to the casual fan/recruit. Most casual fans have no idea what the WCHA, CCHA is. But I promise you they have heard of "Big Ten."

Thats what Ohio State gains instantly.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Okay, I'll bite. What is your rationale for this train of thought?

There are a few different reasons why I think this.

1. Ohio State does not draw very well for a school of its stature. If they are playing more games against Minnesota, Wisconsin and Penn State, that should bring in more casual fans who may not normally pay attention to hockey. While this may be true w/any Big Ten School, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan don't really have issues as it is currently selling tickets. If Ohio State is able to sell more tickets, then one would generaly assume that they will be making more revenue, which they could then put back into the program via better assistants, more money for recruiting trips....which leads to

2. Ohio State should be able to recruit better. Again, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan (I do not intend to leave MSU out of this, it's just that I know much more about these three programs, so I use them. Please do not feel slighted.) basically don't have any issues currently with recruiting. For the most part, they get who they want. Ohio State doesn't. The Big Ten will definitely give more publicity to an Ohio State hockey program, and it would make sense that solid kids who may have turned to a different school, would now turn to Ohio State as an elite option. I'm not saying that Ohio State would be #1 in recruiting (everyone knows that is Michigan), but even if they are a top 10-15 that would be a jump from where they are now. If you have more solid recruits that leads to...

3. Ohio State should then win more games. While it may not be 30+ win seasons, it would be reasonable to assume ~20 wins. Of course, if Ohio State is better, and winning more games, that comes at the expense of the other Big Ten Teams. If they are able to string together solid seasons, make a few NCAA Tournament games, get better recruits it will lead to more attendance, more revenue, better (or at least better equiped) assistants for recruiting trips, which leads to better recruits, and more winning. It is a cycle which ultimately puts Ohio State as a top 15-20 program in the country. They most likely will never dominate like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan, but they will find their niche in the conference, and "steal" wins from the Gophers, Badgers and Wolverines.

At the end of the day, if you have a program that can sustain itself financially, it has a significantly greater chance for success. Do you ever wonder why Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver, Boston College, Boston University, New Hampshire...etc are always in the hunt? It is because they have invested the most into their programs. Ohio State, by percentage, will most likely increase their commitment to college hockey more than any other school in the Big Ten, with the exception of Penn State.

Obviously this is not a sure thing, but I never said it was. All I said was that Ohio State has the most to gain, and this was my reasoning why. I'm sure there are other valid points as well that could support my argument.

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

There are a few different reasons why I think this.

1. Ohio State does not draw very well for a school of its stature. If they are playing more games against Minnesota, Wisconsin and Penn State, that should bring in more casual fans who may not normally pay attention to hockey. While this may be true w/any Big Ten School, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan don't really have issues as it is currently selling tickets. If Ohio State is able to sell more tickets, then one would generally assume that they will be making more revenue, which they could then put back into the program via better assistants, more money for recruiting trips....which leads to

2. Ohio State should be able to recruit better. Again, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan (I do not intend to leave MSU out of this, it's just that I know much more about these three programs, so I use them. Please do not feel slighted.) basically don't have any issues currently with recruiting. For the most part, they get who they want. Ohio State doesn't. The Big Ten will definitely give more publicity to an Ohio State hockey program, and it would make sense that solid kids who may have turned to a different school, would now turn to Ohio State as an elite option. I'm not saying that Ohio State would be #1 in recruiting (everyone knows that is Michigan), but even if they are a top 10-15 that would be a jump from where they are now. If you have more solid recruits that leads to...

3. Ohio State should then win more games. While it may not be 30+ win seasons, it would be reasonable to assume ~20 wins. Of course, if Ohio State is better, and winning more games, that comes at the expense of the other Big Ten Teams. If they are able to string together solid seasons, make a few NCAA Tournament games, get better recruits it will lead to more attendance, more revenue, better (or at least better equipped) assistants for recruiting trips, which leads to better recruits, and more winning. It is a cycle which ultimately puts Ohio State as a top 15-20 program in the country. They most likely will never dominate like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan, but they will find their niche in the conference, and "steal" wins from the Gophers, Badgers and Wolverines.

At the end of the day, if you have a program that can sustain itself financially, it has a significantly greater chance for success. Do you ever wonder why Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver, Boston College, Boston University, New Hampshire...etc are always in the hunt? It is because they have invested the most into their programs. Ohio State, by percentage, will most likely increase their commitment to college hockey more than any other school in the Big Ten, with the exception of Penn State.

Obviously this is not a sure thing, but I never said it was. All I said was that Ohio State has the most to gain, and this was my reasoning why. I'm sure there are other valid points as well that could support my argument.

My personal opinion about OSU hockey is that the hockey dollar in Columbus is stupendously diluted by the presence of the Bluejackets.

I submit that if Omaha had a NHL team, that UNO would have the same issues OSU does. It's also worth mentioning here that the Omaha metro is about 100,000 people bigger than the Columbus metro as well.

OSU plays in one of the few college hockey arenas bigger than ours and they average 3829 per home date.

The Bluejackets are currently averaging, in the same city, in the same arena, 13,278 per game.!!!!

If this doesn't buttress my argument here, nothing would. That said, I don't know what OSU did, attendance-wise, prior to the Bluejackets. But, I'd sure like to see what affect the Bluejackets being gonzo would have on OSU attendance, now. I sincerely doubt that the BTHC thing changes the fortunes of war for them at all. Probably Penn State, if ably lead, should surpass them in short order.

What I am talking about here is why I see UNO as a sleeping giant that is being awakened. It's the 4rd largest metro area in the country after Minneapolis, Boston, and Denver with college hockey and UNO plays in the 2nd largest arena (destined to change) in the nation at 16,680, and, unlike OSU, UNO has had tons of crowds north of 10,000 because, in the winter time, the only thing they are competing with around here is Creighton Basketball. And, UNO hockey will win a national Championship (or even multiple championships) before either Creighton or UNL ever win a g****** thing, if ever, in basketball. Neither have ever won a thing and never will. The smart fans around here recognize this and have been willing to, and, will rally around the UNO flag. I can and have seen it happening. The local media coverage of UNO hockey around here by television and the paper now is at an all time high.

I don't think who OSU plays will affect anything since Columbus is a "Major League" sports town and fans will vote that way every time with their sports dollar, given the chance. I don't think the Big 10 understands college hockey culture at all.

 

[Rhett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Long aside to answer some questions:

Thanks, but it seems a school has be be a member of some group NCAA, NAIA or whoever to have sports so being COMPLETELY independent can't happen?

A school could be completely independent. The Apprentice School played as a total independent for many, many years before joining the USCAA recently. They've played NCAA schools, particularly D-III football, for decades.

I'm sure there are smaller colleges or other non-colleges like Apprentice that either compete as total independents or only as members of one of the overlapping (NCCAA), smaller (ACCA) or younger (USCAA) associations.

So what happens when the NAIA disappears? Because I'm assuming all schools strive to be in the NCAA. (Big assumption, and I don't know enough about the NAIA to assume anything else.)

NAIA has lower size requirements than even NCAA III for athletic programs. When MCLA dropped hockey a few years ago, they immediately added men's & women's cross country because they would have dropped to 4 men's sports, below the NCAA III mandated standard. For smaller colleges, even NCAA III sized athletic programs are a burden that will never be overcome.

NCAA II requires even more teams, and there is a similar group of NAIA programs who are faced with the choice of dropping hoops scholarships in order to join NCAA III or adding additional programs to join NCAA II and find both choices unpalatable.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

There are a few different reasons why I think this.

1. Ohio State does not draw very well for a school of its stature. If they are playing more games against Minnesota, Wisconsin and Penn State, that should bring in more casual fans who may not normally pay attention to hockey. While this may be true w/any Big Ten School, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan don't really have issues as it is currently selling tickets. If Ohio State is able to sell more tickets, then one would generaly assume that they will be making more revenue, which they could then put back into the program via better assistants, more money for recruiting trips....which leads to

2. Ohio State should be able to recruit better. Again, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan (I do not intend to leave MSU out of this, it's just that I know much more about these three programs, so I use them. Please do not feel slighted.) basically don't have any issues currently with recruiting. For the most part, they get who they want. Ohio State doesn't. The Big Ten will definitely give more publicity to an Ohio State hockey program, and it would make sense that solid kids who may have turned to a different school, would now turn to Ohio State as an elite option. I'm not saying that Ohio State would be #1 in recruiting (everyone knows that is Michigan), but even if they are a top 10-15 that would be a jump from where they are now. If you have more solid recruits that leads to...

3. Ohio State should then win more games. While it may not be 30+ win seasons, it would be reasonable to assume ~20 wins. Of course, if Ohio State is better, and winning more games, that comes at the expense of the other Big Ten Teams. If they are able to string together solid seasons, make a few NCAA Tournament games, get better recruits it will lead to more attendance, more revenue, better (or at least better equiped) assistants for recruiting trips, which leads to better recruits, and more winning. It is a cycle which ultimately puts Ohio State as a top 15-20 program in the country. They most likely will never dominate like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan, but they will find their niche in the conference, and "steal" wins from the Gophers, Badgers and Wolverines.

At the end of the day, if you have a program that can sustain itself financially, it has a significantly greater chance for success. Do you ever wonder why Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, North Dakota, Denver, Boston College, Boston University, New Hampshire...etc are always in the hunt? It is because they have invested the most into their programs. Ohio State, by percentage, will most likely increase their commitment to college hockey more than any other school in the Big Ten, with the exception of Penn State.

Obviously this is not a sure thing, but I never said it was. All I said was that Ohio State has the most to gain, and this was my reasoning why. I'm sure there are other valid points as well that could support my argument.

I concur FS, Big Ten brand name recognition will help OSU significantly. I would add the BTN cash cow as a means of generating broader market exposure and reinvestment income into the program as well. Playing Big Ten opponents is also very attractive to potential recruits, parents, and advisors. Let's not forget the academic side...The OSU has a lot to offer a recruit as well.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I'm really intrigued to see what kind of interlocking the B1GHC, WCHA and CCHA have in mind...

If the WCHA holds firm on saying play all of us or none of us...I would think that would result in each WCHA playing Minny or Wisco 4 out of 5 season in a two game series...that gives the B1GTWO 8 games a season against the WCHA.

If the CCHA had a similar arrangement with the 4 remaining big ten schools, they could get a series against 1 of the four every season rotating...not sure how much the smaller schools would really want to go to PSU but who knows?

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

It will be to accommodate the Big Ten's need to have four teams always in the NCAA tourney. For example, the .500 rule will go bye, bye.

And why on earth would everyone else on the competition committee go along with a bunch of pro-Big Ten changes to how the NCAA tournament is chosen?

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

...
The Bluejackets are currently averaging, in the same city, in the same arena, 13,278 per game.!!!!
...

Stop. Just please stop.

tOSU and the Blue Jackets do NOT share the same venue. There are TWO 18k plus arenas in Columbus competing for the entertainment dollar. The Value City Arena at the Jerome Schottenstein Center located ON tOSU's campus and four miles south is the Nationwide Arena, home of the Columbus Blue Jackets.

 

[yooper(UP) hockey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I'm really intrigued to see what kind of interlocking the B1GHC, WCHA and CCHA have in mind...

If the WCHA holds firm on saying play all of us or none of us...I would think that would result in each WCHA playing Minny or Wisco 4 out of 5 season in a two game series...that gives the B1GTWO 8 games a season against the WCHA.

If the CCHA had a similar arrangement with the 4 remaining big ten schools, they could get a series against 1 of the four every season rotating...not sure how much the smaller schools would really want to go to PSU but who knows?

How does this work when University of Alabama Huntsville joins the CCHA? Michigan, MSU and OSU play UAH

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How does this work when University of Alabama Huntsville joins the CCHA? Michigan, MSU and OSU play UAH

Does UAH join the CCHA before or after ND and Miami bail?

 

[fangers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

My personal opinion about OSU hockey is that the hockey dollar in Columbus is stupendously diluted by the presence of the Bluejackets.

I submit that if Omaha had a NHL team, that UNO would have the same issues OSU does. It's also worth mentioning here that the Omaha metro is about 100,000 people bigger than the Columbus metro as well.

OSU plays in one of the few college hockey arenas bigger than ours and they average 3829 per home date.

The Bluejackets are currently averaging, in the same city, in the same arena, 13,278 per game.!!!!

If this doesn't buttress my argument here, nothing would. That said, I don't know what OSU did, attendance-wise, prior to the Bluejackets. But, I'd sure like to see what affect the Bluejackets being gonzo would have on OSU attendance, now. I sincerely doubt that the BTHC thing changes the fortunes of war for them at all. Probably Penn State, if ably lead, should surpass them in short order.

What I am talking about here is why I see UNO as a sleeping giant that is being awakened. It's the 4rd largest metro area in the country after Minneapolis, Boston, and Denver with college hockey and UNO plays in the 2nd largest arena (destined to change) in the nation at 16,680, and, unlike OSU, UNO has had tons of crowds north of 10,000 because, in the winter time, the only thing they are competing with around here is Creighton Basketball. And, UNO hockey will win a national Championship (or even multiple championships) before either Creighton or UNL ever win a g****** thing, if ever, in basketball. Neither have ever won a thing and never will. The smart fans around here recognize this and have been willing to, and, will rally around the UNO flag. I can and have seen it happening. The local media coverage of UNO hockey around here by television and the paper now is at an all time high.

I don't think who OSU plays will affect anything since Columbus is a "Major League" sports town and fans will vote that way every time with their sports dollar, given the chance. I don't think the Big 10 understands college hockey culture at all.

Your logic is flawed on several points.

#1 - OSU and the Blue Jackets do not play at the same arena.

#2 - There is very little overlap between the current OSU and the Blue Jackets fan bases, so I don't think the Blue Jackets really hurt them significantly. OSU students are regular Blue Jacket fans. OSU has an on-campus facility yet draws very few students (out of 40,000 plus student), and they need to do a better job of getting more of those students in the building. They do very well vs. Michigan, and I think that they would expect to get better numbers now that they playin other Big 10 schools and competing for Big 10 title. But they school needs to market hockey better.

 

[fangers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Does UAH join the CCHA before or after ND and Miami bail?

Don't think it matters to UAH because without getting in a conference doubt they continue at DI.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

It will be to accommodate the Big Ten's need to have four teams always in the NCAA tourney. For example, the .500 rule will go bye, bye.

Are you serious? Please tell me you aren't serious.