Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Would they put up with 3 years of your hockey performance in football?

I'd seriously doubt even sweatervest could survive that. Two years and I have a feeling he'd be on thin ice.

No doubt!

 

[Alton]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

This would be true if the B1G and WCHA were the only two conferences. There's dozens of other teams to play, and each one of them is a massive *yawn* compared to the WCHA rivalries.

Now, if this were the NCAA saying B1G and WCHA can't play each other, then maybe you'd have a point.

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

 

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Exactly why teams like SCSU don't need agree to play at minnesota and not get home games back. Once Minnesota leaves the WCHA if the other schools can't make a buck off of them why play them?

Because they are the University of Minnesota.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

Except the schools voluntarily choose to become a member of a conference. They can, contracts notwithstanding, leave a conference if they don't like the rules. **** you Barry Alvarez. **** you.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

OK, do it.

It would be tougher for Minnesota to give up the current WCHA schools because of the in-state pressure which can be brought to bear to try to get them to play SCSU, UMD, BSU and MSU-M. As for Wisconsin, I think the hockey fans would miss NoDak, UMD and others but there aren't going to be legislators from those other towns making noise about 'forcing' them to play each other.

So, then, Wisconsin loses those 10 possible opponents. That leaves 40 other teams and UW has to find 7 of them. A few - Boston College, Boston Univ., maybe Notre Dame and Miami - could demand home/home series. I still think that UW could get 7 of Lake Superior, Western, Huntsville, Ferris, any ECAC school, any Atlantic Hockey team and half of Hockey East to come to Madison.

They would be counting on two things to get into the NCAA:
A) winning a six team conference (not 12) for an autobid
B) collective strength of schedule

A could be easier than it is now. B might be tougher. Between the two, I'm guessing UW probably likes it chances.

Again, I'm not saying I like the idea. But WCHA unity isn't guaranteed - nor is ruling out UW wanting to continue its relationships. I'm just suggesting UW seeking 14 home games isn't far fetched.

What strength of schedule? If they are playing a cupcake schedule their pairwise is goingto suffer. Then figure playing four games against PSU and it gets even worse......

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

edit - And before anyone says "fine, Minn will just schedule eastern or AHA schools," think about how many Gopher fans don't like this as it is, and think about that B1G schedule with no SCSU, UMD, UND or the like (or zero road games within reasonable driving distance) anywhere on it...

The U can justify raising season ticket prices with more home games. Even if the non conference schedule is horse****, they'll still manage a 90%+ renewal rate on season tickets, whether or not the fans b*tch and moan about it.

For those of you talking about how the pairwise would be negatively impacted by a weak schedule, I will counter with Ylae. They played a weak schedule and won the vast majority of their games. That was sufficient to put them atop the pairwise. The only issue with an easy schedule is there's a smaller margin for error.

 

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

What strength of schedule? If they are playing a cupcake schedule their pairwise is goingto suffer. Then figure playing four games against PSU and it gets even worse......

If we have a pairwise in three years.

Prediction: The pairwise either changes or they use nothing.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

The conferences all come under the banner of Big Brother NCAA. I don't think colleges have the kaunas these days to outright challenge the NCAA. Why do you think some schools curled up into the fetal postion when they were ordered to remove their Indian names and mascots if they didn't meet specific criteria to the outrage of their alumni?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The U can justify raising season ticket prices with more home games. Even if the non conference schedule is horse****, they'll still manage a 90%+ renewal rate on season tickets, whether or not the fans b*tch and moan about it.

I assume you mean charge more for the season and not per single game ticket right?

 

[kire_mailliw]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

being a goofer fan and living in iowa city (ya, its unbearable) the only way I think this is a good thing is if it expands dI hockey here--(be nice to see Indiana and Illinois get dI as well)

I do know many people that are not hockey fans --which have caught a BTN hockey game on, and have mentioned to me that iowa needs a team --the problem of course is the facility

Cedar Rapids (25 min away) has a 4000 seat arena--anyone know if that might be large enough for a dI school? The Rough Riders (a junior team) who play there, actually draw sellout crowds often....

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If we have a pairwise in three years.

Prediction: The pairwise either changes or they use nothing.

That fifth line that includes "Football Stadium Size" as a comparable, is really going to suck.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The conferences all come under the banner of Big Brother NCAA. I don't think colleges have the kaunas these days to outright challenge the NCAA. Why do you think some schools curled up into the fetal postion when they were ordered to remove their Indian names and mascots if they didn't meet specific criteria to the outrage of their alumni?

Nothing would please me more than to see the NCAA's antitrust exemption yanked. The chaos would be beautiful. Plus think of all the jobs it would create in the sports journalism field!

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If we have a pairwise in three years.

Prediction: The pairwise either changes or they use nothing.

Where is this coming from? Because you want it that way or you heard something? Unless the BTHC is going to make all the other college hockey teams a lot of money I don't see the other schools wanting a change.

 

[Alton]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Except the schools voluntarily choose to become a member of a conference. They can, contracts notwithstanding, leave a conference if they don't like the rules. **** you Barry Alvarez. **** you.

And the same is true of the NCAA...every member of the NCAA voluntarily chose to become a member and can leave if they don't like the rules. That doesn't prevent the NCAA or the WCHA from being governed by antitrust laws.

I know we have actual real-life law talking guys who are reading this thread, or were reading it a few days ago. I would be interested in hearing their opinions, even if this isn't their area of specialty.

Nothing would please me more than to see the NCAA's antitrust exemption yanked. The chaos would be beautiful. Plus think of all the jobs it would create in the sports journalism field!

The NCAA does not have an "antitrust exemption." Antitrust laws apply to the NCAA, as they do to the WCHA.

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

being a goofer fan and living in iowa city (ya, its unbearable) the only way I think this is a good thing is if it expands dI hockey here--(be nice to see Indiana and Illinois get dI as well)

I do know many people that are not hockey fans --which have caught a BTN hockey game on, and have mentioned to me that iowa needs a team --the problem of course is the facility

Cedar Rapids (25 min away) has a 4000 seat arena--anyone know if that might be large enough for a dI school? The Rough Riders (a junior team) who play there, actually draw sellout crowds often....

So would the Rough Rides get tossed out in favor of Iowa? Both couldn't have weekend evening games.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

And the same is true of the NCAA...every member of the NCAA voluntarily chose to become a member and can leave if they don't like the rules. That doesn't prevent the NCAA or the WCHA from being governed by antitrust laws.

I know we have actual real-life law talking guys who are reading this thread, or were reading it a few days ago. I would be interested in hearing their opinions, even if this isn't their area of specialty.



The NCAA does not have an "antitrust exemption." Antitrust laws apply to the NCAA, as they do to the WCHA.

Really? I could have sworn they did.

Interesting. I had always assumed they did. Only because if someone tried to start their own collegiate athletics association they'd be crushed. Not that this reason makes them in violation of antitrust laws necessarily.

 

[kire_mailliw]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

So would the Rough Rides get tossed out in favor of Iowa? Both couldn't have weekend evening games.

not really sure...just thinking off the top...perhaps they could arrange their road and home games to accomodate each other?

 

[GB Puck Fan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

being a goofer fan and living in iowa city (ya, its unbearable) the only way I think this is a good thing is if it expands dI hockey here--(be nice to see Indiana and Illinois get dI as well)

I do know many people that are not hockey fans --which have caught a BTN hockey game on, and have mentioned to me that iowa needs a team --the problem of course is the facility

Cedar Rapids (25 min away) has a 4000 seat arena--anyone know if that might be large enough for a dI school? The Rough Riders (a junior team) who play there, actually draw sellout crowds often....

Actually, all of the Iowa USHL teams (Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo and Dubuque) draw pretty well. The problem isn't ice facilities in Iowa, it's ice facilities in Iowa in cities with D1 schools. The downtown rink in Des Moines is something like 14,000 seats, but I don't see Drake mentioned as a likely option. I don't think there's an appropriate venue in Ames or Iowa City, or D1 schools in Rockford or Council Bluffs...

 

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Actually, all of the Iowa USHL teams (Des Moines, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo and Dubuque) draw pretty well. The problem isn't ice facilities in Iowa, it's ice facilities in Iowa in cities with D1 schools. The downtown rink in Des Moines is something like 14,000 seats, but I don't see Drake mentioned as a likely option. I don't think there's an appropriate venue in Ames or Iowa City, or D1 schools in Rockford or Council Bluffs...

Maybe Iowa could play on the rink in the mall. LOL!

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If we have a pairwise in three years.

Prediction: The pairwise either changes or they use nothing.

We currently have the perfect selection system for the NCAAs. Argue the merits of KRACH vs RPI until you're blue in the face, but you cannot deny that the selection committee is fair and gets it right every single season. (Seriously, how long has it been since they've veered away from the PWR?)

If the selection committee EVER changes its tune, I demand a riot.