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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Omaha-Denver's 8 hours so I'd chalk that up as a "fly".
Omaha-Denver's 8 hours so I'd chalk that up as a "fly".
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Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Yeah, I'd agree. I mean, it's a great city for hockey events (see: F4 2008) and fun to visit, but for a conference tourney (which is "small potatoes" in the big picture) I can't see the tourney out there. They wouldn't draw enough.
Yeah, I'd agree. I mean, it's a great city for hockey events (see: F4 2008) and fun to visit, but for a conference tourney (which is "small potatoes" in the big picture) I can't see the tourney out there. They wouldn't draw enough.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Its drivable if you have the time. Its pretty much all interstate driving, which is something that I find most mapping programs tend to be "conserivative" with their time estimates. You got somebody else to do some of the driving with you, don't screw around with gas and rest stops, you should be able to cover the 500 miles between Denver and Omaha in about 7 hours.
Its drivable if you have the time. Its pretty much all interstate driving, which is something that I find most mapping programs tend to be "conserivative" with their time estimates. You got somebody else to do some of the driving with you, don't screw around with gas and rest stops, you should be able to cover the 500 miles between Denver and Omaha in about 7 hours.
Wreckincrew
New member
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
1. Minnesota - Duluth
2. Bemidji State
3. SCSU
4. MSU-Mankato
7/8th. A stones throw away - UND
More like 4 7/8th
1. Minnesota - Duluth
2. Bemidji State
3. SCSU
4. MSU-Mankato
7/8th. A stones throw away - UND
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
IMO, for a weekend like this, 5-6 hours is usually the limit. And that's pushing it for the average fan. Remember, we're considered "diehards" on here, so we are looking at this through tinted glasses.
IMO, for a weekend like this, 5-6 hours is usually the limit. And that's pushing it for the average fan. Remember, we're considered "diehards" on here, so we are looking at this through tinted glasses.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
The UW rivalry w/UMN seemed pretty **** healthy this season. Nodak seems to be *everyone's* hated rival now, especially considering their style of play but from my perspective I still effen hate the rats more
The UW rivalry w/UMN seemed pretty **** healthy this season. Nodak seems to be *everyone's* hated rival now, especially considering their style of play but from my perspective I still effen hate the rats more
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HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
One major reason why people resist change is the potential for loss on a personal level. Obviously your proprietary loss is more personal although objectively that may not be true at all.
"Completely lost its lustre?" I don't think that's true at all. I thought the intense series in Madison towards the end of the season indicated the MN/UW rivalry was very much alive and well. The hockey rivalry has its history and significance for older fans who remember the 1970s, and the legendary coaching reigns of Bob Johnson and Herb Brooks, which is when things REALLY heated up. The series rivalry may not be as intense now as it was that era, but it is still very much alive and well. For students on campus, it's always rivalry time with UW in any sport. The Border Battle Cup involves a MN/UW rivalry that encompasses virtually all sports (minus 6 sports) played between the two schools, in which the Gophers are currently leading in points this year.
Frequency of meetings does not usually cause rivalries to dissipate. BC/BU typically play each other 4-5x yr. and many would argue it is still the greatest rivalry in college hockey. IMHO meeting Mich. 4-5x yr. may intensify the potential for a big time rivalry between the two schools. Although dominated by Mich. the two schools have a rivalry history in football, which usually extends to other sports as well.
Advantages of the BTHC
1) Big Ten name recognition/academic/athletic reputation will provide unique recruiting opportunities. The Big Ten Hockey Conference will be the only Division I conference to have all its members in the prestigious Association of American Universities. Only 68 of the nation's most prestigious public and private universities belong to the AAU which awards over 50% of all doctorate degrees in the US.
2) Increased TV and media revenue: The conference's Big Ten Network reportedly provides as much as 88 cents per month for every subscriber to the network, and in the 2008–09 fiscal year, the Big Ten Network alone distributed $6.4 million to each of the conference's 11 schools.
3) Enhanced college hockey exposure into new media and recruiting markets for Big Ten schools.
4) Established rivalries:
Michigan-Ohio State
Michigan-Michigan State
Minnesota-Wisconsin
Ohio State-Penn State
Michigan-Minnesota
Michigan-Penn State
5) Expansion opportunities to include other Big Ten hockey programs (Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, etc.).
6) NC games with the WCHA rivals (i.e. UND) and other conferences (CCHA).
7) Big Ten schools will consider scheduling adjustments to financially supplement smaller schools affected by the formation of the BTHC (i.e. Bowling Green, Lake Superior St., etc.)
It seems like every year around NCAA college hockey playoff time, fans complain about college hockey's lack of recognition and exposure by leading media outlets (ESPN). Much of that is related to geographical and sociocultural knowledge, values and preferences attached to specific NCAA sports. Expanding market influence is the only way to elevate the profile of NCAA hockey and further develop the sport through expansion and exposure on a larger geographical scale. In my view, it's very possible the WCHA may be split up eventually to allow for a western expansion. Even California schools like UCLA, USC, Stanford are prime for NCAA D1 hockey programs as a part of a western expansion agenda. Dean Blais said recently in an interview during the F5 that he's made numerous scouting trips to California and stated, "the talent is every bit as good out there as anywhere else in the country".
One major reason why people resist change is the potential for loss on a personal level. Obviously your proprietary loss is more personal although objectively that may not be true at all.
"Completely lost its lustre?" I don't think that's true at all. I thought the intense series in Madison towards the end of the season indicated the MN/UW rivalry was very much alive and well. The hockey rivalry has its history and significance for older fans who remember the 1970s, and the legendary coaching reigns of Bob Johnson and Herb Brooks, which is when things REALLY heated up. The series rivalry may not be as intense now as it was that era, but it is still very much alive and well. For students on campus, it's always rivalry time with UW in any sport. The Border Battle Cup involves a MN/UW rivalry that encompasses virtually all sports (minus 6 sports) played between the two schools, in which the Gophers are currently leading in points this year.
Frequency of meetings does not usually cause rivalries to dissipate. BC/BU typically play each other 4-5x yr. and many would argue it is still the greatest rivalry in college hockey. IMHO meeting Mich. 4-5x yr. may intensify the potential for a big time rivalry between the two schools. Although dominated by Mich. the two schools have a rivalry history in football, which usually extends to other sports as well.
Advantages of the BTHC
1) Big Ten name recognition/academic/athletic reputation will provide unique recruiting opportunities. The Big Ten Hockey Conference will be the only Division I conference to have all its members in the prestigious Association of American Universities. Only 68 of the nation's most prestigious public and private universities belong to the AAU which awards over 50% of all doctorate degrees in the US.
2) Increased TV and media revenue: The conference's Big Ten Network reportedly provides as much as 88 cents per month for every subscriber to the network, and in the 2008–09 fiscal year, the Big Ten Network alone distributed $6.4 million to each of the conference's 11 schools.
3) Enhanced college hockey exposure into new media and recruiting markets for Big Ten schools.
4) Established rivalries:
Michigan-Ohio State
Michigan-Michigan State
Minnesota-Wisconsin
Ohio State-Penn State
Michigan-Minnesota
Michigan-Penn State
5) Expansion opportunities to include other Big Ten hockey programs (Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, etc.).
6) NC games with the WCHA rivals (i.e. UND) and other conferences (CCHA).
7) Big Ten schools will consider scheduling adjustments to financially supplement smaller schools affected by the formation of the BTHC (i.e. Bowling Green, Lake Superior St., etc.)
It seems like every year around NCAA college hockey playoff time, fans complain about college hockey's lack of recognition and exposure by leading media outlets (ESPN). Much of that is related to geographical and sociocultural knowledge, values and preferences attached to specific NCAA sports. Expanding market influence is the only way to elevate the profile of NCAA hockey and further develop the sport through expansion and exposure on a larger geographical scale. In my view, it's very possible the WCHA may be split up eventually to allow for a western expansion. Even California schools like UCLA, USC, Stanford are prime for NCAA D1 hockey programs as a part of a western expansion agenda. Dean Blais said recently in an interview during the F5 that he's made numerous scouting trips to California and stated, "the talent is every bit as good out there as anywhere else in the country".
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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Will the (eventual) addition of more FBS schools completely alter the culture of college hockey??
As for the BTHC schools playing UND -- remember that pesky "hostile & abusive" nickname thingy that prevents certain BTHC schools from playing UND in nc games.
Will the (eventual) addition of more FBS schools completely alter the culture of college hockey??
As for the BTHC schools playing UND -- remember that pesky "hostile & abusive" nickname thingy that prevents certain BTHC schools from playing UND in nc games.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
If you think the Big Ten is going to give financial considerations to smaller schools or this is going to cause hockey to be picked up in other Big Ten schools I have some oceanfront property in Indiana I'd like to sell you.
Who cares about AAU anything?
Rivalries lost:
UMN-UND
UMN-UMD
UMN-SCSU
UMN-MSUM
WI-UND
The only rivalries it creates is:
UMN-UM
Funny, I seem to recall a tournament that took care of that. I wish I could think of it...
Find me a Gopher or Badger fan that actually gives a **** about the "Border Battle Cup" or a group of 10 fans where five know where it is and I'll be impressed.
Frequency of meetings absolutely intensifies the rivalry. You don't play UND a minimum of two times a year and it will die a slow death. Just like the UMN-UM "rivalry".
If you think the Big Ten is going to give financial considerations to smaller schools or this is going to cause hockey to be picked up in other Big Ten schools I have some oceanfront property in Indiana I'd like to sell you.
Who cares about AAU anything?
Rivalries lost:
UMN-UND
UMN-UMD
UMN-SCSU
UMN-MSUM
WI-UND
The only rivalries it creates is:
UMN-UM
Funny, I seem to recall a tournament that took care of that. I wish I could think of it...
Find me a Gopher or Badger fan that actually gives a **** about the "Border Battle Cup" or a group of 10 fans where five know where it is and I'll be impressed.
Frequency of meetings absolutely intensifies the rivalry. You don't play UND a minimum of two times a year and it will die a slow death. Just like the UMN-UM "rivalry".
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G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
How is what Brent said (that you are agreeing with) different from what I said that you say is the difference between you and me?
The fact that I won't wear a Sioux jersey and root for them against RPI is somehow a character flaw that I share with my fellow Badger fans?
I just said what Brent said in more blunt terms. Once we're out of the WCHA, we're out and there's no going back so I'm not got sit here and grip over it or carry the torch into future years. I'm not going to let fans/critics from other schools (or my own) make me feel guilty for continuing to back my team. I exit WITH my team.
I've said over and over that I'd prefer for things to stay the way they are. Nobody in power cares what you or I would prefer.
How is what Brent said (that you are agreeing with) different from what I said that you say is the difference between you and me?
The fact that I won't wear a Sioux jersey and root for them against RPI is somehow a character flaw that I share with my fellow Badger fans?
I just said what Brent said in more blunt terms. Once we're out of the WCHA, we're out and there's no going back so I'm not got sit here and grip over it or carry the torch into future years. I'm not going to let fans/critics from other schools (or my own) make me feel guilty for continuing to back my team. I exit WITH my team.
I've said over and over that I'd prefer for things to stay the way they are. Nobody in power cares what you or I would prefer.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Those appear to be mostly YOUR rivalries that will be lost. And do you honestly have "rivalries" with MSUM & SCSU or do they just want to beat you guys really bad out of inferiority (perceived or real) issues? Do you REALLY want to beat them or do you just not want to lose to them because they are beneath you?
Before you answer, don't forget the arrogance that makes you guys who you are!
On another note...
Since you clearly don't understand, many Wisconsin fans loathe all things Maize (bile) & Blue and while this stems from the football field, it won't take long at all for this to become a great hockey rivalry. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen as both are quality programs that will be competing for the same things year in and year out.
Those appear to be mostly YOUR rivalries that will be lost. And do you honestly have "rivalries" with MSUM & SCSU or do they just want to beat you guys really bad out of inferiority (perceived or real) issues? Do you REALLY want to beat them or do you just not want to lose to them because they are beneath you?
Before you answer, don't forget the arrogance that makes you guys who you are!
On another note...
Since you clearly don't understand, many Wisconsin fans loathe all things Maize (bile) & Blue and while this stems from the football field, it won't take long at all for this to become a great hockey rivalry. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen as both are quality programs that will be competing for the same things year in and year out.
JF_Gophers
2147483647
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Sorry, UND is second fiddle when it comes to rivalries with Minnesota. Wisconsin is the only team I want to beat every year no matter what.
The UND rivalry is certainly up there, but it won't ever replace WI.
Sorry, UND is second fiddle when it comes to rivalries with Minnesota. Wisconsin is the only team I want to beat every year no matter what.
The UND rivalry is certainly up there, but it won't ever replace WI.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Well, that's kinda outta left field.
What'd we ever do to you?
Well, that's kinda outta left field.
What'd we ever do to you?
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
Have you forgotten about a 3 game playoff series between MN/Mankato where every game went to OT? Sure there are better rivalries but I don't think you can discount that one because of that series right there.
And if you think a Michigan/WI hockey rivalry will EVERY come close to the existing football one, I too have some oceanfront property in Indiana for sale. Football is a statewide thing in WI but hockey is not. It will never be on the same level. I challenge you to get about 50 miles outside of Madison and find a group of diehard college hockey fans. I spent years looking and was never able to do so. Hockey is not important in that state so the rivalry will never develop as you claim.
Those appear to be mostly YOUR rivalries that will be lost. And do you honestly have "rivalries" with MSUM & SCSU or do they just want to beat you guys really bad out of inferiority (perceived or real) issues? Do you REALLY want to beat them or do you just not want to lose to them because they are beneath you?
Before you answer, don't forget the arrogance that makes you guys who you are!
On another note...
Since you clearly don't understand, many Wisconsin fans loathe all things Maize (bile) & Blue and while this stems from the football field, it won't take long at all for this to become a great hockey rivalry. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen as both are quality programs that will be competing for the same things year in and year out.
Have you forgotten about a 3 game playoff series between MN/Mankato where every game went to OT? Sure there are better rivalries but I don't think you can discount that one because of that series right there.
And if you think a Michigan/WI hockey rivalry will EVERY come close to the existing football one, I too have some oceanfront property in Indiana for sale. Football is a statewide thing in WI but hockey is not. It will never be on the same level. I challenge you to get about 50 miles outside of Madison and find a group of diehard college hockey fans. I spent years looking and was never able to do so. Hockey is not important in that state so the rivalry will never develop as you claim.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
So you guys have a rivalry with Man-U?
Because of one playoff series and a whole lot of angst on their part to beat big brother?
When you guys are good, you know what your "rivalries" with the state schools look like from here? Four easy wins from each for the Gophs.
As far as your other "point" about Michigan and football and hockey fans outside of Madison... What difference does that make? All of a sudden the non-hockey fans in the state have some bearing on who our hockey rivals are?
In this state, the vast majority of hockey fans are also football fans. Maybe that's foreign to you guys since your football program is what it is. Now football is of far greater interest to the rest of this state's sports fans, but that really doesn't have any bearing on who hockey fans dislike.
I'm incensed as soon as I see those stupid wolverine helmets in the KC and I guarantee that over time, everyone else will be also. Will it ever be the same as NoDak? Maybe (probably) not, but for me, Michigan is already the third most hated opponent on our annual schedule behind only you and your ugly, stupid, neanderthal western neighbors.
I equate MTU, MSUM, BSU and others with Canisius and any other crappy non-con series. Just games I gotta pay for (and hope we win) so that I can have my great seats for Minny, NoDak and even the games against Michigan and MSU.
Obviously, DU, CC, UMD, SCSU (sometimes) and apparently UNO are quality opponents, but I feel no "rivalry" towards them.
So you guys have a rivalry with Man-U?
Because of one playoff series and a whole lot of angst on their part to beat big brother? When you guys are good, you know what your "rivalries" with the state schools look like from here? Four easy wins from each for the Gophs.
As far as your other "point" about Michigan and football and hockey fans outside of Madison... What difference does that make? All of a sudden the non-hockey fans in the state have some bearing on who our hockey rivals are?
In this state, the vast majority of hockey fans are also football fans. Maybe that's foreign to you guys since your football program is what it is. Now football is of far greater interest to the rest of this state's sports fans, but that really doesn't have any bearing on who hockey fans dislike.
I'm incensed as soon as I see those stupid wolverine helmets in the KC and I guarantee that over time, everyone else will be also. Will it ever be the same as NoDak? Maybe (probably) not, but for me, Michigan is already the third most hated opponent on our annual schedule behind only you and your ugly, stupid, neanderthal western neighbors.
I equate MTU, MSUM, BSU and others with Canisius and any other crappy non-con series. Just games I gotta pay for (and hope we win) so that I can have my great seats for Minny, NoDak and even the games against Michigan and MSU.
Obviously, DU, CC, UMD, SCSU (sometimes) and apparently UNO are quality opponents, but I feel no "rivalry" towards them.
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Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
UNO to Minneapolis is a bus trip. It's about 6 hours.
Skeeterman
Bob is making me nervous
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
WCHA Final 5 worked well without any Big Ten schools. Much nicer without Minnesota and Wisconsin.
WCHA Final 5 worked well without any Big Ten schools. Much nicer without Minnesota and Wisconsin.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
I have to wonder of the ~12k in ticket packages that are sold, how many go to UM and UW fans? They may have sold 12k+ tickets for the Thursday and Friday afternoon games, but their were not that many people in the stands. Having 1/3 (or more) of the tickets go unused isn't as much of a problem compared to not selling those tickets in the first place.
I have to wonder of the ~12k in ticket packages that are sold, how many go to UM and UW fans? They may have sold 12k+ tickets for the Thursday and Friday afternoon games, but their were not that many people in the stands. Having 1/3 (or more) of the tickets go unused isn't as much of a problem compared to not selling those tickets in the first place.
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
I'm guessing maybe 9000 people actually attended the afternoon games. The lower bowl wasn't completely full, and the upper levels were nearly empty.
HarleyMC
Registered User
Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus
That is what is being discussed in terms of scheduling. Do you have any evidence to the contrary or are you just being cynical again?
"anything?" It simply emphasizes the academic excellence of some of the best universities in the US into the recruiting equation, making the BTHC option that much more attractive to parents, advisors, and players.
I would classify UMD, SCSU and MSUM as secondary, not primary UMN rivalries. I suspect other interconference BTHC rivalries with UMN will also develop over time. Moreover, since we don't know which WCHA teams will be entering into BTHC scheduling for at least a couple years, you're a bit premature with your scheduling summary.
Trust me, plenty of athletes and fans on campus know about it. But then again I'm not interested in impressing you. My point was directed towards the statement where you stated the MN/UW rivalry has "Completely lost its lustre", which is not true. But you're obviously entrenched in your opinion beyond sound reasoning and I'm ok with that.
The rivalry between UND/UMN will most likely continue, but with different stakes and dynamics involved since it will no longer be a conference rivalry. It's basically incongruent to compare UND to Michigan in terms of rivalries. As I stated, the Minnesota/Michigan rivalry has not peaked with the same intensity even in football, which is where it really started, because Michigan has dominated. But I'm looking forward to it developing an edge in the BTHC.
That is what is being discussed in terms of scheduling. Do you have any evidence to the contrary or are you just being cynical again?
"anything?"
It simply emphasizes the academic excellence of some of the best universities in the US into the recruiting equation, making the BTHC option that much more attractive to parents, advisors, and players.I would classify UMD, SCSU and MSUM as secondary, not primary UMN rivalries. I suspect other interconference BTHC rivalries with UMN will also develop over time. Moreover, since we don't know which WCHA teams will be entering into BTHC scheduling for at least a couple years, you're a bit premature with your scheduling summary.
Trust me, plenty of athletes and fans on campus know about it. But then again I'm not interested in impressing you. My point was directed towards the statement where you stated the MN/UW rivalry has "Completely lost its lustre", which is not true. But you're obviously entrenched in your opinion beyond sound reasoning and I'm ok with that.
The rivalry between UND/UMN will most likely continue, but with different stakes and dynamics involved since it will no longer be a conference rivalry. It's basically incongruent to compare UND to Michigan in terms of rivalries. As I stated, the Minnesota/Michigan rivalry has not peaked with the same intensity even in football, which is where it really started, because Michigan has dominated. But I'm looking forward to it developing an edge in the BTHC.
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