Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

No way the WCHA lets a start-up UBC program in without opening the door to either UAF, Air Force, or Miami. If the WCHA wanted a 11-team conference UNO would still be in the CCHA.

If (and it's a pretty big "if", IMO) UBC came to Division 1 hockey, the CCHA would be a likelier bet, if only because that conference is going to be borderline desperate to stay relavant. And truthfully, the WCHA is so mindful of its "powerhouse" status that I doubt they would want a start-up to dilute their conference.

UBC most likely be welcomed into the WCHA. Miami is out of their footprint (Ask UNO) and Air Force- with the lack of ability to recruit Canadian players, give scholarships, etc.. would make Tech look like North Dakota. A Canadian school increases exposure of the WCHA in Canada. Outside of the MN teams many of the other WCHA teams have a lot of recruiting fingers into Western Canada. UBC is not a start-up- they have men's and women's hockey teams and a 7,000-seat arena. The big difference is recruiting would have to change because the T-Birds would no longer be able to recruit ex major junior players. Think of the recruiting power esp to Canadian kids- "Stay in Canada get a great education and play NCAA DI hockey in the WCHA" They'd be competitive really fast!

 

[Squarebanks]

I know UBC already has a hockey program in place. UAF and UAA have played them before. I was alluding to the fact that they would be starting up at the NCAA level, which is considerably higher than the Canadian college leagues.

You also just touched on a potential political issue of sorts. Quite a few current CCHA and WCHA schools heavily recruit out of western Canada. I have a hunch there would be some behind-the-scenes posturing to keep a Canada school out of Division 1 because of the recruiting implications.

I don't doubt that it's possible, but this is far different than letting UBC and Simon Fraser play D2 basketball and volleyball in the GNAC.

UBC most likely be welcomed into the WCHA. Miami is out of their footprint (Ask UNO) and Air Force- with the lack of ability to recruit Canadian players, give scholarships, etc.. would make Tech look like North Dakota. A Canadian school increases exposure of the WCHA in Canada. Outside of the MN teams many of the other WCHA teams have a lot of recruiting fingers into Western Canada. UBC is not a start-up- they have men's and women's hockey teams and a 7,000-seat arena. The big difference is recruiting would have to change because the T-Birds would no longer be able to recruit ex major junior players. Think of the recruiting power esp to Canadian kids- "Stay in Canada get a great education and play NCAA DI hockey in the WCHA" They'd be competitive really fast!

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Another Big Ten quality university may be added to the WCHA?

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/SportsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1376465

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/OtherSports/2011/03/09/17552841.html

A DII school according to NCAA bylaws should be able to play up in hockey.



Imagine a WCHA hockey night on Canadian cable. UBC's entrance into the college hockey world could really open up possibilities in the West, not just in Canada (Alberta, Calgary), but for possibly even Pac10 schools.

Yeesh, if they get in the NCAA in any way, shape, or form, I sure hope they get a lot better.

UNO played them to open the season in an exhibition here at the Qwest Center and they sure didn't acquit themselves very well. Wasn't even a contest, really:

http://www.omavs.com/news/2010/10/2/MHOCKEY_1002105053.aspx

They got their only goal against UNO's freshmen line playing their first collegiate game.

They also got shut-out by Minnesota and Minnesota State this season, too.

The pièce de résistance? They played Iowa State's club team (!), at home this year and had to come from behind to win after blowing a 3-0 lead! The game was not any preseason game or something. They played it mid-season!

I thought Alabama-Huntsville was a far superior team, UNO having played them at home as well.

Yeah, they are a worthy NCAA addition.

 

[bigmrg74]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. UNO and UNL are part of the SAME university system. UNL is in the Big 10 now. If UNL is not, or, has no interest in D-1 hockey, as is supposedly the case, then it seems logical that the Big 10 might have some interest in adding UNO to their Big 10 hockey league, and, ONLY the hockey team. But, no other sports. It's a rather unique situation. This has also had some discussion in the news media here. I have yet to have anybody put forth a credible opinion to me as to why this could not happen, only that it won't because "they don't think so" or because they have some other axe to grind on the topic. Basically, the Big 10 could then easily add an additional conference member, albeit "Nebraska lite". Don't lose sight of the fact that by adding UNO, the conference would be adding another major metropolitan area to the league as well. Don't lose sight of the fact that dollars and cents are a big part of all of this as are television revenues. This fact, in and of itself, makes me think that Northwestern has to come into play here at some point. It just makes "cents".

I just don't think that the Big 10's plans, long term or, even near term, are for a 6 team league. It just doesn't work, IMHO, either from a competition perspective or a dollars and cents perspective.

You're nuts if you think Lincoln let Omaha have anything like a BTHC membership for the Mavericks, especially after what went down with the Maverick Football team just last week. Lincoln isn't going to tolerate Omaha getting uppity at all.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Yeah, they are a worthy NCAA addition.

Says the guy who thinks UNO has a shot of getting into the BTHC.

 

[adam_777]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

You do realize if UBC entered the league they would need to scrap the entire team right?

The Canadian attitude towards young players with talent coming up through the ranks is this Play in the CHL or go to the NCAA previously Canadian colleges and universities only offered CIS oppertunities, small rinks, small audiences, small percentage of NHL scouts in the building. I've grown up watching the likes of Bozak, Turris, Benn and multiple other guys now playing in the NHL lead the BCHL in scoring and then transfer to either NCAA or Major Junior. Never have I seen a top scoring prospect opt to go play in the CIS. The CIS is a good league for guys not going to make it to get scholarships to play through school, all of the decent players go the other two routes.

So to me its a simple debate, give Canada an NCAA Div 1 hockey team and watch the teams abilities to keep some of the top prospects in the country while still competing in a highly scouted prestigious league.

Anyone judging the UBC of the past isn't considering the implications of what UBC's hockey program could now offer if they were to compete in NCAA Div 1.

 

[Scally Lama]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I got your back and I will always root for Penn State over NoDak. I'll also take you guys over Michigan and the Rodents - EVERY TIME!

This conference is a done deal and I've moved on. I've loved the WCHA since I first started following Badger hockey in the 80's, mainly because it wasn't the Big 10 and I could see different opponents/rivals than what we got in all the other sports.

Fact of the matter is though that others have decided what's best for us and I'm a Badger fan before I'm a WCHA fan and wherever they play and whomever they play, I will remain a Badger fan first and foremost.

I get that many are disappointed, both fans of member schools and those that will remain in the old conferences, but time to grieve and move on. We've known this was coming for a couple of years now, so it's not like it's a shock.

Welcome Penn State! I'm getting a little sick of everyone trashing the Big 10 and I'm starting to turn insular to the point that I'm about ready to get a little arrogant. Not yet though...


PS - It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the Koch brothers are behind this. Think about it, the rich attempt to get richer and the poor may have to fold their programs...

Wow, rationality. I admit I'm on a little bit of a learning curve with this stuff, but Wisky already > Minnesota on my personal hierarchy, just on this thread. Anyway, sincerely appreciated! PC is/soon to be was one of my adopted NCAA teams (our club coach played on the 1996 HEA champs), I lurk in their threads, and anyone that trolls Hokydad is good with me lol...

I was personally hoping for that CCHA slot, or even better, for something to somehow work out where we could be an eastern program. I'm just old enough to remember PSU pre-Big Ten and thought it would be cool to get back to those roots. And almost 20 years in the Big Ten has given us very little in the way of rivalry, just the monotony of the same schools over and over and over. My wish was for hockey to be different, although with 20 conference games, we can still get that if we want it (hopefully we don't just schedule Mercyhurst and RMU for the rest). We even have a very small amount of hockey history in the east - our failed varsity team in the 1940s went 0-3 against Cornell, Colgate and Army (most games were against other long-gone programs in PA).

But like you said, the decision's been made by people paid to make those types of decisions, so all we can do is follow our teams and duck when stuff's thrown at us. I tend to think this will all work out better than some of the dire predictions. If someone dies because of this, their survival was probably questionable even without BTHC (yeah you, Bowling Green). And hey, maybe it saves UAH to negate one.

Anyway, good luck with your offseason, your 2011-12, and see you in 2012-13 up at Kohl from what I hear!

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Yeah, sorry for wanting an NCAA hockey program.

don't be sorry about that, it's great someone wanted a psu program.

HOWEVER: my thoughts on B10: I'll NEVER root for PSU (nor Mich, MSU, OSU) against WCHA teams current or former, and I HATE the fact that your program coming into fruition gives NCAA hockey a lame conference w/only 6 teams.

I'm sorry, but Wisconsin hasn't had a rivalry w/Michigan since 1980, so 30 years. MSU? never. OSU? never.

eff the b10 conference and Barry Alvarez's arrogance. I CANNOT wait until he's gone from wisconsin. I wish we'd get some Pat Richter quotes on this but he's too classy to rip this I suppose.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I got your back and I will always root for Penn State over NoDak. I'll also take you guys over Michigan and the Rodents - EVERY TIME!

This conference is a done deal and I've moved on. I've loved the WCHA since I first started following Badger hockey in the 80's, mainly because it wasn't the Big 10 and I could see different opponents/rivals than what we got in all the other sports.

Fact of the matter is though that others have decided what's best for us and I'm a Badger fan before I'm a WCHA fan and wherever they play and whomever they play, I will remain a Badger fan first and foremost.

I get that many are disappointed, both fans of member schools and those that will remain in the old conferences, but time to grieve and move on. We've known this was coming for a couple of years now, so it's not like it's a shock.

Welcome Penn State! I'm getting a little sick of everyone trashing the Big 10 and I'm starting to turn insular to the point that I'm about ready to get a little arrogant. Not yet though...


PS - It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the Koch brothers are behind this. Think about it, the rich attempt to get richer and the poor may have to fold their programs...

you really think this? do you really feel you'd cheer for OSU/PSU/MSU/Mich over Nodak, CC, Denver, UMD, MTU? if so, I couldn't disagree with you more. In a match-up of OSU/MSU/Mich/PSU vs. any WCHA team I'd cheer for the WCHA team to not just win but DESTROY those guys. 8-1 wouldn't even be good enough. I'd want Nodak or DU to come in and kick osu out of their own building after killing them 15-0 or psu or, etc...

What really bothers me is that some people think the B10 network and the formation of this conference will be some boon to NCAA hockey and suddenly the sport will have cred w/casual fans and it will be like round ball or football. I mean that IS the notion right? because there's no reason to proceed down this path otherwise, correct?

this just isn't going to happen. not unless about 40 more schools add NCAA hockey (and invest serious money) including USC, Florida, and traditional football, roundball powers.

...ugh. eff the bthc

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

you really think this? do you really feel you'd cheer for OSU/PSU/MSU/Mich over Nodak, CC, Denver, UMD, MTU? if so, I couldn't disagree with you more. In a match-up of OSU/MSU/Mich/PSU vs. any WCHA team I'd cheer for the WCHA team to not just win but DESTROY those guys. 8-1 wouldn't even be good enough. I'd want Nodak or DU to come in and kick osu out of their own building after killing them 15-0 or psu or, etc...

What really bothers me is that some people think the B10 network and the formation of this conference will be some boon to NCAA hockey and suddenly the sport will have cred w/casual fans and it will be like round ball or football. I mean that IS the notion right? because there's no reason to proceed down this path otherwise, correct?

this just isn't going to happen. not unless about 40 more schools add NCAA hockey (and invest serious money) including USC, Florida, and traditional football, roundball powers.

...ugh. eff the bthc

I was stating that I'd cheer for PSU if they were playing NoDak, Minny or Big Blue. This only illustrates that I really don't like those schools, not that I have a newfound love for PSU.

I have no loyalty to schools from the the WCHA or Big 10 (in other sports) and quite often I root against them in bowl games or hockey playoffs depending on who they are (Minnesota - hope they lose in EVERYTHING) and whether their opponent is an underdog.

I get that you wish that the status quo would remain, so do I. But it's not going to remain and I've moved on.

I certainly won't carry a hard-on for our former conference mates once we're out of the WCHA. At that point, I leave with my team.

Badger fan first, conference allegiance somewhere far down on the list.

So shoot me...

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

So apparently Monday is D-Day if you believe INCH.

http://insidecollegehockey.com/inch/2011/03/19/bigten/

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I could see an annual UND-MN series at the X. If they sold out the place they could split the proceeds and probably get pretty close to what they would get if they hosted the series at the home of each school. If they did something like that, I'd like to see them have each school get the same amount of available seats to purchase. It would be cool to have a Rose Bowl type look, half green half maroon.

Do you think the two schools would be fine with giving up home ice for their non conference games against each other? I'm sure *most* of the fans would be okay with it, and maybe the coaches would be as well, but school administration might be another matter. I don't know how seat allotment would work. The only time I've heard about that is when frozen four teams get small (~500?) seat batches of tickets. I've never heard of an entire arena being split 50-50 (although I don't see how or why it couldn't work - if properly marketed ahead of time, both groups of fans would surely buy them).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

So apparently Monday is D-Day if you believe INCH.

http://insidecollegehockey.com/inch/2011/03/19/bigten/

Yes, yes. Thak you Wisconsin and Penn State. You've actually done more to destroy college hockey than the current Minnesota staff has done to destroy Minnesota hockey. Good work.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Do you think the two schools would be fine with giving up home ice for their non conference games against each other? I'm sure *most* of the fans would be okay with it, and maybe the coaches would be as well, but school administration might be another matter. I don't know how seat allotment would work. The only time I've heard about that is when frozen four teams get small (~500?) seat batches of tickets. I've never heard of an entire arena being split 50-50 (although I don't see how or why it couldn't work - if properly marketed ahead of time, both groups of fans would surely buy them).

I think the schools, at the end of the day, only care about $$. If the X were to sell out (not that it would every year, but I think most years it would) that's 19k+ tickets sold. That's 9.5k/school. You split those seats up equally and give to each school to sell their own way and they keep those profits. Now, 9.5k is a little less than capacity at Mariucci, and about 2k less than capacity at the Ralph. North Dakota sells out the Ralph at $50/ticket for the Gophers. That would mean that the Sioux would have to sell their 9.5k tickets for approximately $60/ticket to equal what a Gopher home series would bring. I haven't been to Mariucci for a Sioux series since '08, and then I paid like $33/ticket. I would assume that those prices have increased since then, so I'll guess that they are about $40/ticket for the Sioux (please correct me if I'm wrong). If the Sioux are selling tickets for $60/ticket, the Gophers would probably sell for the same. Therefore, the Gophers would only have sell about 7k of their 9.5k allotment to equal a Sioux home series.

The other option, is that they sell tickets for $60/ticket, and just split the profits, people sit wherever they would want to sit. If they sell 19k tickets, the Sioux make what they would for a home Gopher series and Minnesota makes about an extra $125k.

I'm also not entirely sure how concessions/parking would work, but I would imagine those profits would go to the X.

Overall, I think North Dakota would make 10-15% less than they would if the series was played in North Dakota, and Minnesota would make about 10-15% more than if they played the series at Mariucci. Obviously, a lot of this is based on my best guess for what the Gophers sell tickets for.

I still think a tournament is probably the best route. I'm sure there are a ton of fans willing to shell out $60/ticket + food + parking for a game between North Dakota and Minnesota. Are they willing to do this for two games? Probably a majority would, but there are going to be people (especially if they live in or around the Cities) that would just want to go to 1 game. Also, if you make a tournament out of it, and have it similar to the GLI, you pay a guarantee to the 4th team that is invited, and then share whatever profits three ways. That leaves a bit more room to make more $$ for the three "hosts", and also allows to sell ticket packages for a bit less as well.

 

[Star2City]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I know UBC already has a hockey program in place. UAF and UAA have played them before. I was alluding to the fact that they would be starting up at the NCAA level, which is considerably higher than the Canadian college leagues.

You also just touched on a potential political issue of sorts. Quite a few current CCHA and WCHA schools heavily recruit out of western Canada. I have a hunch there would be some behind-the-scenes posturing to keep a Canada school out of Division 1 because of the recruiting implications.

I don't doubt that it's possible, but this is far different than letting UBC and Simon Fraser play D2 basketball and volleyball in the GNAC.

Contrary to not desiring Canadian hockey schools, NCAA officials have actually suggested adding Canadian schools would help increase college hockey's profile.

If UBC announces a move to NCAA Div II, the CIS (Canada's NCAA) will immediately terminate their membership in all sports. For UBC hockey to survive in any form other than club, UBC must have assurances from the NCAA that their hockey can play at DI. Simon Fraser does not sponsor hockey, so it was not an issue two years ago when Simon Fraser jumped to the NCAA.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

you really think this? do you really feel you'd cheer for OSU/PSU/MSU/Mich over Nodak, CC, Denver, UMD, MTU? if so, I couldn't disagree with you more. In a match-up of OSU/MSU/Mich/PSU vs. any WCHA team I'd cheer for the WCHA team to not just win but DESTROY those guys. 8-1 wouldn't even be good enough. I'd want Nodak or DU to come in and kick osu out of their own building after killing them 15-0 or psu or, etc...

...ugh. eff the bthc

Yes, yes. Thak you Wisconsin and Penn State. You've actually done more to destroy college hockey than the current Minnesota staff has done to destroy Minnesota hockey. Good work.

OK...for the past nine years, all I've read here is "Penn State doesn't have real hockey," "when is Penn State going to have real hockey," blah, blah.....

So now we are going to have "real" hockey (their words, not mine) in Happy Valley and 18 months away from the first faceoff of the modern era of Penn State varsity hockey and the school is being blamed for the demise of college hockey.

You can't have it both ways folks. Would you be as PO'ed if, say, Notre Dame, NoDak, Denver, CC, Miami and UNO all got together to form their own conference? Would that conference be the end of college hockey as we know it? Hell no it wouldn't.

I've written and commented about the pros and cons of the BTHC. Personally, I would have preferred to see Penn State join the CCHA and the BT schools play a conference schedule and tournament while keeping their current conference status ( a la Ivy League).

Obviously, that's just my preference, the folks that run the Big Ten have a different idea.

I get that you wish that the status quo would remain, so do I. But it's not going to remain and I've moved on.

Apparently some have not, but might think about doing so.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

MN ticket prices were in the high 30s at last check. Of course, there's season tickets with mandatory donations of varying amounts, there's also the student section which is sold for about 40% the going rate for general admission, and then there's the suites. All in all, MN probably takes in an average of 45-50 per seat per game. With all that said, I agree the tournament approach makes the most sense - since that can be easily made into an event to draw in fans from multiple schools. Each day can be sold as an all session pass similar to what the F5 did for Thursday's games. Upper level could sell for $25-30 per session, and lower level / club could go for $50. If you had UND, MN, UW, and some random fourth team of prominence, people would gladly pay those prices for a Friday-Saturday tournament.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Yes, yes. Thak you Wisconsin and Penn State. You've actually done more to destroy college hockey than the current Minnesota staff has done to destroy Minnesota hockey. Good work.

I'm with you on this. I'm definitely not a fan of what B. Alvarez and the group have foisted upon the WCHA/CCHA. And to me the proof is in the b10 network. The only reason this *might* make sense is if the games are on tv more than they are now. anyone on uscho wanna bet on whether b10 shows more hockey games than FS has in the past? with roundball out there and football highlights to show ad nauseum I really don't see b10 showing anything approaching what FS has done (esp, in mn and mich), let alone go beyond that.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

OK...for the past nine years, all I've read here is "Penn State doesn't have real hockey," "when is Penn State going to have real hockey," blah, blah.....

So now we are going to have "real" hockey (their words, not mine) in Happy Valley and 18 months away from the first faceoff of the modern era of Penn State varsity hockey and the school is being blamed for the demise of college hockey.

You can't have it both ways folks.

Yes we can.

Personally, I would have preferred to see Penn State join the CCHA and the BT schools play a conference schedule and tournament while keeping their current conference status ( a la Ivy League).

See?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Yes we can.



See?

Yep, you're exactly right. At least Minnesota didn't vote for this crap.