Big News out of the CIS

[CDNCoach]

Some big news making waves in the CIS.

http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/cis_news/2013-14/releases/20131126-cis

For the athletes that were on the fence about leaving NCAA and going back to CIS this will most likely make their decision easier knowing they don't have to sit out 1 year anymore.

Also with the 5 year pilot project in CIS Women's Hockey they can now offer more money to athletes for other things than just tuition. This could have significant impact on whether they stay in Canada or go to the States. This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Some big news making waves in the CIS.

http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/cis_news/2013-14/releases/20131126-cis

For the athletes that were on the fence about leaving NCAA and going back to CIS this will most likely make their decision easier knowing they don't have to sit out 1 year anymore.

Also with the 5 year pilot project in CIS Women's Hockey they can now offer more money to athletes for other things than just tuition. This could have significant impact on whether they stay in Canada or go to the States. This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches.

Doubtful. Get back to us in 5 years and let us know how its working out for you.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Some big news making waves in the CIS.

http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/cis_news/2013-14/releases/20131126-cis

For the athletes that were on the fence about leaving NCAA and going back to CIS this will most likely make their decision easier knowing they don't have to sit out 1 year anymore.

Also with the 5 year pilot project in CIS Women's Hockey they can now offer more money to athletes for other things than just tuition. This could have significant impact on whether they stay in Canada or go to the States. This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches.

That is big news indeed.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Doubtful. Get back to us in 5 years and let us know how its working out for you.

Disagree. It will allow some schools that do have the funding to attract more top talent to stay at home. Having said that, it won't make much of a difference for the schools that even today do not take full advantage of the allowable limits due to financial constraints.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Disagree. It will allow some schools that do have the funding to attract more top talent to stay at home. Having said that, it won't make much of a difference for the schools that even today do not take full advantage of the allowable limits due to financial constraints.

A couple of hockey players choosing to stay home is not going to make recruiting for NCAA programs all that much more difficult.

The fact that has you noted several programs won't take advantage of this is only more reason for many top players not to stay home.

If anything it may keep more mid-level Canadian girls at home which again will not have a huge impact on things in the NCAA

 

[D2D]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

For the athletes that were on the fence about leaving NCAA and going back to CIS this will most likely make their decision easier knowing they don't have to sit out 1 year anymore.

From the perspective of an NCAA coach, I could see where this might influence the decision as to which player to bring in: a U.S. (or other non-Canadian) player COULD be seen as slightly less risky to transfer out than a Canadian player (notwithstanding the fact that outside the WCHA any player can already transfer without penalty). But it does change the equation, if ever so slightly, because the Canadian player could now be slightly more likely to move back to her native country, if for whatever reason her original choice to attend a school in the U.S. didn't work out.

Also with the 5 year pilot project in CIS Women's Hockey they can now offer more money to athletes for other things than just tuition. This could have significant impact on whether they stay in Canada or go to the States. This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches.

If what you say is true there will plenty of U.S. and other foreign players who would gladly take that scholarship! And unless and until a large number of TOP Canadian players start to decide to stay and play for CIS schools I seriously doubt that the decisions of those top Canadian players will change because of either modification in the CIS rules.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

I had a Canadian head coach tell me seven years ago that this stuff was in the works. No need to get out the radar gun to clock how fast they worked on this.

 

[OneTimer]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

NCAA DIII schools will be adversely impacted by this and probably quite severely mostly in the east. Elmira, Norwich, Manhattanville and St Norberts might be able to ride this out.

 

[WIrinkrat]

NCAA DIII schools will be adversely impacted by this and probably quite severely mostly in the east. Elmira, Norwich, Manhattanville and St Norberts might be able to ride this out.

And schools that dont actively recruit canadians for whatever reason

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Some big news making waves in the CIS.

http://english.cis-sic.ca/sports/cis_news/2013-14/releases/20131126-cis

For the athletes that were on the fence about leaving NCAA and going back to CIS this will most likely make their decision easier knowing they don't have to sit out 1 year anymore.

Also with the 5 year pilot project in CIS Women's Hockey they can now offer more money to athletes for other things than just tuition. This could have significant impact on whether they stay in Canada or go to the States. This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches.

they all play by the same rules, how would this make it more difficult?

 

[Call It]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

I think this is great news for women's hockey. It allows more female hockey players the ability to get an education for free. This will hopefully allow more US players an opportunity at a scholarship. The more US players receiving scholarships the better, let us not give anymore free educations to foreign student/ athletes.

 

[CDNCoach]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

they all play by the same rules, how would this make it more difficult?

This has nothing to do with following rules. What I meant when I said "This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches." is there will be more money offered to players by CIS programs that also have offers to NCAA programs which in turn will make it more difficult for NCAA coaches to recruit Canadian players.

Obviously not all CIS programs will be able to offer a whole bunch more money than what they are offering now but there will be schools that can. There is some programs that are very wealthy. They have worked on getting donations from alumni, businesses or philanthropists.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens in the years to come.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

This has nothing to do with following rules. What I meant when I said "This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches." is there will be more money offered to players by CIS programs that also have offers to NCAA programs which in turn will make it more difficult for NCAA coaches to recruit Canadian players.

Obviously not all CIS programs will be able to offer a whole bunch more money than what they are offering now but there will be schools that can. There is some programs that are very wealthy. They have worked on getting donations from alumni, businesses or philanthropists.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens in the years to come.

Depending on the magnitude of impact on that recruiting what I think will / would be interesting is the potential opportunities for non-Canadians opening up as a result. Players from both within and outside the US. I guess it's merely the potential for an increase in competition for players...and maybe blue chip players in particular, beyond what that competition is for NCAA programs presently. Not sure it would put NCAA programs with athletic scholarship $$ at any kind of a noticeable disadvantage. I'd expect they remain an attractive option for the D-I prospect from anywhere.

Whatever the impact turns out to be...could actually be a silver lining from the perspective of some who hope to play NCAA D-I college hockey.

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

It allows more female hockey players the ability to get an education for free.

Not disputing your basic premise but I would just point out that defining the word "free" is important so that one gets an accurate picture of what is occurring in these situations and what one is talking about and meaning.

What is "free" in a full scholarship is the cost of the tuition and books (but usually not any required lab classes with their associated costs) as well as room and board and possibly (depending on the university) any extended healthcare benefits that are not covered by the student/athlete's previously existing coverage.

My experience has lead me to conclude that for a student/athlete to survive on the "board" part of the room and board allowance one would almost need to be anorexic especially when you consider that these athletes usually need to pay close attention to what food goes into their bodies in order to be able to maintain peak performance. In other words, they can't just buy anything because they want to keep the cost of their purchases down.

The "room" part of the equation is somewhat similar to the "board" part although somewhat less so in my opinion.

As a result, the shortfall has to come from somewhere...ie: parents, relatives, the student/athlete's savings, borrowed from a financial institution etc..

In addition, the huge amount of time required to be part of the team (training, practising, playing, travelling, community events etc.) adds stress to what would otherwise be a stressful enough academic experience...and possibly more so for those on high profile teams with a tradition of winning.

They often endure through injuries, (sometimes several throughout their tenure with the team), and/or through feelings of guilt that they impose upon themselves as a result of not being able to contribute to the team effort as a result of their having sustained an injury that warrants their being forced into the stands during their recovery. You can also add illness to the mix.

So, I've never looked at it as a full scholarship's equating to their education being free. They pay and some of them can pay dearly. Some of what they or their family members pay is financial but a huge percentage of the payment is in currency that only the student/athlete can pay and that particular currency is one that you can't fold into your wallet. And I've sometimes wondered which currency contribution is more important.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Not disputing your basic premise but I would just point out that defining the word "free" is important so that one gets an accurate picture of what is occurring in these situations and what one is talking about and meaning.

What is "free" in a full scholarship is the cost of the tuition and books (but usually not any required lab classes with their associated costs) as well as room and board and possibly (depending on the university) any extended healthcare benefits that are not covered by the student/athlete's previously existing coverage.

My experience has lead me to conclude that for a student/athlete to survive on the "board" part of the room and board allowance one would almost need to be anorexic especially when you consider that these athletes usually need to pay close attention to what food goes into their bodies in order to be able to maintain peak performance. In other words, they can't just buy anything because they want to keep the cost of their purchases down.

The "room" part of the equation is somewhat similar to the "board" part although somewhat less so in my opinion.

As a result, the shortfall has to come from somewhere...ie: parents, relatives, the student/athlete's savings, borrowed from a financial institution etc..

In addition, the huge amount of time required to be part of the team (training, practising, playing, travelling, community events etc.) adds stress to what would otherwise be a stressful enough academic experience...and possibly more so for those on high profile teams with a tradition of winning.

They often endure through injuries, (sometimes several throughout their tenure with the team), and/or through feelings of guilt that they impose upon themselves as a result of not being able to contribute to the team effort as a result of their having sustained an injury that warrants their being forced into the stands during their recovery. You can also add illness to the mix.

So, I've never looked at it as a full scholarship's equating to their education being free. They pay and some of them can pay dearly. Some of what they or their family members pay is financial but a huge percentage of the payment is in currency that only the student/athlete can pay and that particular currency is one that you can't fold into your wallet. And I've sometimes wondered which currency contribution is more important.

Very good post and so true. Hidden/Not measurable Opportunity costs.

Your post illustrates that for players to succeed at this level they have to be committed AND love the game, otherwise it becomes too much of a chore. In addition, like to point out, that you may not consider it free, but I like to think that the lessons learned and the experience gained are also very real values, in some cases priceless.

 

[stanleycup]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Very good post and so true. Hidden/Not measurable Opportunity costs.

Your post illustrates that for players to succeed at this level they have to be committed AND love the game, otherwise it becomes too much of a chore. In addition, like to point out, that you may not consider it free, but I like to think that the lessons learned and the experience gained are also very real values, in some cases priceless.

Great post from Blackbeard, interesting way to look at it.

These changes to CIS are good for Canadian Universities. But, at the end of the day the schools also need to provide the facilities and financially support to the programs. There is a significant cost to this and traditionally Canadian Universities have not wanted to make that investment. CIS sports are very poorly marketed and not well attended by alumni and students. They could learn a lot about the way NCAA sports are marketed and how they generate revenue and alumni goodwill to the schools.

For women's hockey, the top players will still want to go to D1 as the level of play is much better than CIS. For the average or fringe D1 player this is good news.

 

[Call It]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

For women's hockey, the top players will still want to go to D1 as the level of play is much better than CIS. For the average or fringe D1 player this is good news.

This brings up a good question. The top "A" players will want to go D1 but what about the "B" player? Would it not be fair to say that some D1 bubble players go D3 because of the cost that Blackbeard pointed out? Would some of these players be inclined to go to CIS if the option was available? Would the CIS schools be available to Americans?

 

[myStuff]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Not disputing your basic premise but I would just point out that defining the word "free" is important so that one gets an accurate picture of what is occurring in these situations and what one is talking about and meaning.

What is "free" in a full scholarship is the cost of the tuition and books (but usually not any required lab classes with their associated costs) as well as room and board and possibly (depending on the university) any extended healthcare benefits that are not covered by the student/athlete's previously existing coverage.

My experience has lead me to conclude that for a student/athlete to survive on the "board" part of the room and board allowance one would almost need to be anorexic especially when you consider that these athletes usually need to pay close attention to what food goes into their bodies in order to be able to maintain peak performance. In other words, they can't just buy anything because they want to keep the cost of their purchases down.

The "room" part of the equation is somewhat similar to the "board" part although somewhat less so in my opinion.

As a result, the shortfall has to come from somewhere...ie: parents, relatives, the student/athlete's savings, borrowed from a financial institution etc..

In addition, the huge amount of time required to be part of the team (training, practising, playing, travelling, community events etc.) adds stress to what would otherwise be a stressful enough academic experience...and possibly more so for those on high profile teams with a tradition of winning.

They often endure through injuries, (sometimes several throughout their tenure with the team), and/or through feelings of guilt that they impose upon themselves as a result of not being able to contribute to the team effort as a result of their having sustained an injury that warrants their being forced into the stands during their recovery. You can also add illness to the mix.

So, I've never looked at it as a full scholarship's equating to their education being free. They pay and some of them can pay dearly. Some of what they or their family members pay is financial but a huge percentage of the payment is in currency that only the student/athlete can pay and that particular currency is one that you can't fold into your wallet. And I've sometimes wondered which currency contribution is more important.

ummmm.....just weighing in on this post from personal experience....the only out of pocket necessary expense we incurred for our daughter to play D1 was health insurance being from Canada....She had EVERYTHING paid for and never ever short on nutritious food, (during the day on campus, at the rink, after practice, after weights, cardio, on the road, even when campus was closed the entire team was fed by the hockey program) not quite sure what your experience was...though the coaching staff at Mercyhurst demands an arm and a leg from their girls.....they truly look after their needs above and beyond what we ever expected. Even arriving on campus in August...arrive at the rink, coaches have everyone's keys to their dorm/apartment etc...go to the bookstore....tell them the players name and they hand you a box with all the text books already selected...couldn't ask for better treatment and yes she graduated with no debt...only true cost to us was travel to watch her play

 

[valleyboy]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

Good question re: American players in CIS. I hope it (scholarships) would be open to US girls but my guess is competition would make things really difficult - at least at this point in time. Keep in mind that your idea of Canadian B is probably closer to US A to A+ right now. Ohio state (ranked 10 at the time) loosing to an upper middle PWHL team Aeros wasn't an accident in pre-season. There are lots of fantastic players up there. If the borders were truly open I really doubt we would see anywhere close to the number of US players we are seeing at our D1 schools for girls hockey. I'm talking volume of talent. How do you think the top few Minnesota teams, with its numerous D1 recruits, would make out vs. a Canadian jwhl or pwhl team? I'd be the first to say they would do just fine... if I hadn't seen so many hockey games this year. I'm just speaking with my glasses on. Doesn't mean US best of the best can't beat Canada's best... they could just send the other 6 teams to an 8 team tournament and any 1 of their teams would have a decent chance of winning. It will elevate level of play in the CIS. This could provide the framework for a more interesting scenario featuring the idea of a Cross Border (north south) D1 College hockey system/league. Such a scenario has the potential to dramatically elevate the attention/fan base of women's college hockey.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Big News out of the CIS

This has nothing to do with following rules. What I meant when I said "This will most definitely make recruiting more difficult for the NCAA Coaches." is there will be more money offered to players by CIS programs that also have offers to NCAA programs which in turn will make it more difficult for NCAA coaches to recruit Canadian players.

Obviously not all CIS programs will be able to offer a whole bunch more money than what they are offering now but there will be schools that can. There is some programs that are very wealthy. They have worked on getting donations from alumni, businesses or philanthropists.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens in the years to come.

actually it will improve NCAA hockey, first, making it more difficult to attract Canadians will only help the schools that depend heavily on Canadians WHAT? you say?
some of the schools depend way to heavily on Canadians to their own disadvantage, the best Canadians go to the best schools, I don't see this changing (in case you haven't been paying attention, even non-hockey playing Canadians are attracted to schools in the US) the second and third tier schools attract second & third tier hockey players, in the long run, it is not only bad for that school, but bad for US hockey, losing those B & C players would help by giving those spots to Americans & Europeans which will improve US & European hockey