Big 10 a scapegoat?

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Didn't the CHA have six when they got the autobid? And when they dropped below the six team guideline, they kept the autobid for one more year? If so, the "favor" the NCAA did for the CHA was to let them keep it when they weren't qualified rather than giving it to them in the first place.

Basically, yes. Someone that knows the CHA better than myself might be able to give more clarification. The CHA formed for the 1999-2000, and waited their three years to get their autobid. They had six teams initially, but dropped down to 5 in the '06-'07 and '07-'08 and then 4 in the '08-'09 and '09-'10 season (where they got two teams in, as BSU was an at-large selection). They received a "favor" as you called it to keep the autobid despite not having the six teams.

 

[billmich88888]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

I am a glass full kinda guy, just ask U!N!O! fans....

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not not after you..

 

[Rover]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

As I see it, the formation of the BTHC, allows "room for expansion" in both western conferences. As it stands right now, college hockey is `full" with little practical room for expansion(assuming max. conference size of 12 teams) so maybe Hockey east has 2 open slots..if they choose that route. After the formation of the BTHC, there will be theoritically 6 "open slotsK in the west. Whether or not those conferences choose to accept applicants is up to their members. The CCHA not accepting UAH recently, may be a bad omen for smaller schools trying to establish D-1 hockey programs, in my opinion...

Just my 2 cents worth

I see it this way too. Putting aside Hockey East's two potential slots, which I can't ever see them filling unless (and its a BIG if) URI started a team and they then went after Connecticut purely under the guise of having all New England state schools in the same league. That's wayyy far off and really doesn't warrant discussion....

So, as you say now there's space to fill where there previously was none. WCHA will be fine with 10 teams as they have strong programs at the top of the conference. The big danger in all of this is Notre Dame and Miami bolting to the WCHA (anbody going to HE is a nonstarter IMHO). What I wish would happen is a holistic approach to college hockey by the NCAA's, in that some Atlantic Hockey schools should be encouraged to go to the CCHA to strengthen the conference, while at the same time allowing tha AHA to expand also (I'm thinking Navy joining up with the other service acadamies in that conference).

So at the end of the day the one thing that needs correcting post BTHC is getting a couple of stable programs to join the CCHA, most likely from the AHA or more remotely from expansion. I had proposed Mercyhurst and Niagara but I suppose you could also do Air Force and Army and then hope for Navy. Either way that puts the conference at 10, along with WCHA's 10 I believe and the AHA's 10. Doesn't help UAH unfortunately I realize.

 

[giwan]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

I see it this way too. Putting aside Hockey East's two potential slots, which I can't ever see them filling unless (and its a BIG if) URI started a team and they then went after Connecticut purely under the guise of having all New England state schools in the same league. That's wayyy far off and really doesn't warrant discussion....

So, as you say now there's space to fill where there previously was none. WCHA will be fine with 10 teams as they have strong programs at the top of the conference. The big danger in all of this is Notre Dame and Miami bolting to the WCHA (anbody going to HE is a nonstarter IMHO). What I wish would happen is a holistic approach to college hockey by the NCAA's, in that some Atlantic Hockey schools should be encouraged to go to the CCHA to strengthen the conference, while at the same time allowing tha AHA to expand also (I'm thinking Navy joining up with the other service acadamies in that conference).

So at the end of the day the one thing that needs correcting post BTHC is getting a couple of stable programs to join the CCHA, most likely from the AHA or more remotely from expansion. I had proposed Mercyhurst and Niagara but I suppose you could also do Air Force and Army and then hope for Navy. Either way that puts the conference at 10, along with WCHA's 10 I believe and the AHA's 10. Doesn't help UAH unfortunately I realize.

Why would they go to the WCHA? Because the pie is bigger? It would also be cut into by more teams. I would think Miami and ND would be in a tougher conference with less chance of making it to the NCAA if they left the CCHA.

 

[Rover]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Why would they go to the WCHA? Because the pie is bigger? It would also be cut into by more teams. I would think Miami and ND would be in a tougher conference with less chance of making it to the NCAA if they left the CCHA.

If teams start dropping out, I can see them leaving for a more secure conference. CCHA will have 8 teams in a couple of years and will be relying on Bowling Green and Ferris State to keep their programs and Alaska not to bolt. The conference has to walk a fine line. That's why I suggest adding a couple more stable schools from the other conference to give them 10. That way you're not so dependent on every single program sticking around.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Where is that Butthurt Hockey Conference thread again that Donald started? I think it needs to be brought back up to the top again.

Potential members of a BHHC fear the BHHC label so fully that it's actually a deterrent to that league's formation.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Some concerns here I totally agree with. I think it's true, the BT will have more home games and that is an advantage to some degree.

I also think that for now, the ccha will be ok as will the wcha. However... down the line maybe not so much. Some rumblings that another big ten school will start a program, financial woes at a few of the smaller schools, Travel costs escalating, etc. That is when the issues will come in to play. I believe all of this is being discussed right now by the big wigs.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

They had the chance when his contract expired, while Blais was still available and wanting back in the WCHA. Instead of going with him, they decided to extend Jutting for another four years I believe.

I'm sorry, but I think Mankato had ZERO chance of ever landing Blais.

What will be interesting is if the BTHC doesn't get an exemption from the 3-year waiting period for the automatic bid. That being said, college hockey bent over backwards to get a 4-team CHA an auto-bid, so I can't see them trying to get in the BTHC's way on this.

Big difference is that the CHA was 4 because they were the last four without a chair when the music stopped. BTHC is choosing their predicament.

While I concur with your assessment of the former commish, unless a partner is found to admit along with UAH, I don't foresee the CCHA going to nine teams just for the sake of going to nine teams.

Why? I mean everyone's acting like the CCHA right now is the senior high school girl who's dreamed all her life of going to Prom, and now its Thursday of Prom week and she doesn't have a date; they'll take anybody.

WCHA will be fine with 10 teams as they have strong programs at the top of the conference.

Understatement of the year. We won't be "fine" at 10, we'll be better. The WCHA was at 10, we work better at 10 as we see every team in our building 3 out of four years, instead of seeing all but 3 other teams only once a year. So 10 is the right number, it just sucks that the 2 we're losing are the 2 that they happen to be.

If teams start dropping out, I can see (Miami and Notre Dame) leaving for a more secure conference. CCHA

First off, I don't think that's the case at all. They're in no danger of folding. If the other CCHA teams could move on, I think they would, but I don't see anyone taking them. Those two will stay until the bitter end, and then *if* the CCHA folds, THEN they would go to the WCHA. The WCHA is a last resort, and honestly, I don't think it'll come to that. But saying that now is like getting a cut on your finger, and instead of putting a band-aid on it, flying to the Mayo Clinic.

And frankly, the WCHA doesn't want them. Are they good programs? Yeah. Do they mean anything to any WCHA schools? I'd recognize Miami and Notre Dame as quality programs if they walked into my barn, but a lot of fans wouldn't. Whose fans in the rodent-less WCHA would be more inclined to see them? UND MAYBE? UNO because of old ties. Anybody else out there? I know SCSU fans wouldn't. We ***** about our fans internally a lot, about not being what they were in the "old days" but they're still a good crowd... but they wanna see MN, UND, UW, tUMD. They don't give a **** about Notre Dame or Miami, and I know this, because Miami showed up to pathetic crowds this year.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Why? I mean everyone's acting like the CCHA right now is the senior high school girl who's dreamed all her life of going to Prom, and now its Thursday of Prom week and she doesn't have a date; they'll take anybody.

Because UAH is about 1,000 miles from Marquette and 415 miles from Oxford, for example? If we're going to invite "anybody" because we're desperate whores, why not see if Niagara or Robert Morris wants to offer 18 scholarships again instead of 11? They're both hundreds of miles closer and as long as $4 gas exists, that's going to be a consideration.

 

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Maybe the Seminoles will start up a team and UAH can have a regional rival. And UND fans can froth at the mouth about their perceived disparate treatment.

 

[MavHockey14]

I'm sorry, but I think Mankato had ZERO chance of ever landing Blais.

He wanted back in the WCHA first and foremost. He turned UNO"s program around, why wouldn't he have had to confidence to do it in the WCHA? (It worked out perfectly for him, cause he got his team in the league.)

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Maybe the Seminoles will start up a team and UAH can have a regional rival. And UND fans can froth at the mouth about their perceived disparate treatment.

If they put skates on Renegade and let Chief Osceola throw a flaming spear into the dot at center ice, they immediately become the greatest team and program of all time.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Because UAH is about 1,000 miles from Marquette and 415 miles from Oxford, for example? If we're going to invite "anybody" because we're desperate whores, why not see if Niagara or Robert Morris wants to offer 18 scholarships again instead of 11? They're both hundreds of miles closer and as long as $4 gas exists, that's going to be a consideration.

Omaha isn't exactly in the WCHA's wheelhouse. And to be fair, I'm not saying that the CCHA is a desperate 17-year-old girl, I'm saying everybody's acting like they are. I'm mad as hell about the BTHC, and I think its pause for concern for the CCHA, but I don't think its the death sentence everyone is trying to make it out to be. Could the CCHA end up desperate? Yeah. Is it currently? I don't think so, especially if the economy turns around.

MEg mentioned you'd be a WMU fan to get in touch with, are you gonna be at the SCSU series?

He wanted back in the WCHA first and foremost. He turned UNO"s program around, why wouldn't he have had to confidence to do it in the WCHA? (It worked out perfectly for him, cause he got his team in the league.)

The Qwest Center is bigger, its a new area as opposed to Mankato fighting with four in-state WCHA squads, and, in my opinion, ranking 5 of 5 in landing top recruits, and lastly, Omaha-Topeka-Lincoln is starting to churn out some quality hockey players. I think its the second best up-and-coming non-traditional hockey area in the country behind California.

And yes, obviously if Blais had gone to Mankato they'd have passed Bemidji, and either gotten on par with St. Cloud and tUMD or maybe even passed them as far as landing recruits, but I'm saying I think Omaha had more to offer to begin with, so throwing him in Omaha led to more early success.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

As of right now, my only concern for the future is the CCHA schools. If they can stay solvent, then there is a chance that the BTHC will lead to more spots for more schools to go varsity. If they can't, then the dominoes really start to fall.

One interesting thought that hasn't yet been addressed is Michigan Tech- who have been struggling mightily to maintain themselves. They've got to be really happy with the huge check that they get from the WCHA tourney every year, but there are times when I wonder if that's the only thing that stops them from picking up the MacNaughton and bolting to the CCHA (again).

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

As of right now, my only concern for the future is the CCHA schools. If they can stay solvent, then there is a chance that the BTHC will lead to more spots for more schools to go varsity. If they can't, then the dominoes really start to fall.

One interesting thought that hasn't yet been addressed is Michigan Tech- who have been struggling mightily to maintain themselves. They've got to be really happy with the huge check that they get from the WCHA tourney every year, but there are times when I wonder if that's the only thing that stops them from picking up the MacNaughton and bolting to the CCHA (again).

Tech hasn't been struggling financially only in performance on the ice. We have a highly affluent alumni base, once the performance turns around we'll have no problem supporting it. We're committed to the WCHA, as we are founders. The CCHA experiment was the result of peer pressure by the 3 other Michigan schools that made the jump. Ultimately we decided it wasn't the right fit for us and back then those paychecks didn't exist.

Also, if the rumblings are true we've made a huge investment in poaching a Big Ten coach away.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Omaha isn't exactly in the WCHA's wheelhouse. And to be fair, I'm not saying that the CCHA is a desperate 17-year-old girl, I'm saying everybody's acting like they are. I'm mad as hell about the BTHC, and I think its pause for concern for the CCHA, but I don't think its the death sentence everyone is trying to make it out to be. Could the CCHA end up desperate? Yeah. Is it currently? I don't think so, especially if the economy turns around.

MEg mentioned you'd be a WMU fan to get in touch with, are you gonna be at the SCSU series?

Should be, at least for the game on the 30th. Who knows about NYE that far in advance.

As of right now, my only concern for the future is the CCHA schools. If they can stay solvent, then there is a chance that the BTHC will lead to more spots for more schools to go varsity. If they can't, then the dominoes really start to fall.

One interesting thought that hasn't yet been addressed is Michigan Tech- who have been struggling mightily to maintain themselves. They've got to be really happy with the huge check that they get from the WCHA tourney every year, but there are times when I wonder if that's the only thing that stops them from picking up the MacNaughton and bolting to the CCHA (again).

Michigan Tech's location makes it easier for them to stomach the WCHA travel compared to the CCHA, I'd imagine.

Closest post BTHC schools (non-Alaska) according to google
1. Northern Michigan (97)
2. UMD (212)
3. Lake Superior State (260)
4. St. Cloud State (353)
5. Bemidji State (360)
6. MSU-Mankato (418)
7. Ferris State (448)
8. North Dakota (476)
9. Notre Dame (513)
10. Western Michigan (549)
11. BGSU (611)
12. Miami (686)
13. Nebraska-Omaha (712)
14. Denver (1,247)
15. Colorado College (1,317)

The Colorado trips suck for them, but the rest are pretty even.

 

[yooper(UP) hockey]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Tech hasn't been struggling financially only in performance on the ice. We have a highly affluent alumni base, once the performance turns around we'll have no problem supporting it. We're committed to the WCHA, as we are founders. The CCHA experiment was the result of peer pressure by the 3 other Michigan schools that made the jump. Ultimately we decided it wasn't the right fit for us and back then those paychecks didn't exist.

Also, if the rumblings are true we've made a huge investment in poaching a Big Ten coach away.

I wish NMU would come back to the WCHA so tech could have great rival games against each other that count for something.

 

[yooper(UP) hockey]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

Should be, at least for the game on the 30th. Who knows about NYE that far in advance.



Michigan Tech's location makes it easier for them to stomach the WCHA travel compared to the CCHA, I'd imagine.

Closest post BTHC schools (non-Alaska) according to google
1. Northern Michigan (97)
2. UMD (212)
3. Lake Superior State (260)
4. St. Cloud State (353)
5. Bemidji State (360)
6. MSU-Mankato (418)
7. Ferris State (448)
8. North Dakota (476)
9. Notre Dame (513)
10. Western Michigan (549)
11. BGSU (611)
12. Miami (686)
13. Nebraska-Omaha (712)
14. Denver (1,247)
15. Colorado College (1,317)

The Colorado trips suck for them, but the rest are pretty even.

Maybe closer, but are they rivals? no MTUvs mankato, st cloud and Bemdji will never be rivals. MTU vs NMU, LSSU and FSU would be rivals but tech will stay in the WCHA.

 

[skiumah2]

Re: Big 10 a scapegoat?

An interesting side note that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. The University of Minnesota has a policy in which they will not schedule or play a non-conference regular season game against a school with a Native American nickname. Because the Gophers have always been in the same conference as the sue, this policy didn't apply to und. My question is, once Minnesota joins the BTHC, will they have the stones to adhere to this policy and refuse to play und in a non-conference series? It will be interesting to see what happens.