At least seven killed at Fort Hood

[leswp1]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

I think that it is interesting to speculate but we have no idea what has been said or planned.

 

[French Rage]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

He should have gone today. Going Tuesday is the absolute minimum.

It might be possible that Obama, as the President of the United States, has a little more knowledge about what investigations are still ongoing at the fort and need to be done, and how a visit from him might distract or divert people from things that need to be done as soon after the shooting as possible, than a poster on some hockey board, and thus made his decision based on this information and when it would be best for those involved at the fort.

That, or today was his communist Nazi abortion ACORN party, and you know how he hates to reschedule those.

 

[Patman]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

I can understand chastising Obama's maturity and appropriateness with the "shout out" but I see no point in criticizing the promptness in which he visits the military base in light of this event. I'm not sure why such a visit should be a priority even as commander in chief.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Couldn't care less about whether President Slapnuts goes to Ft. Hood or not.

 

[Kepler]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

That, or today was his communist Nazi abortion ACORN party, and you know how he hates to reschedule those.

Particularly when Bill Ayers is coming, I mean, OMG, that's like his favorite person!!!11

 

[Old Pio]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

It might be possible that Obama, as the President of the United States, has a little more knowledge about what investigations are still ongoing at the fort and need to be done, and how a visit from him might distract or divert people from things that need to be done as soon after the shooting as possible, than a poster on some hockey board, and thus made his decision based on this information and when it would be best for those involved at the fort.

That, or today was his communist Nazi abortion ACORN party, and you know how he hates to reschedule those.

Is there any defense you won't use? Yes of course it's possible the president has some secret inside information that would argue against a visit to the post. The principal agencies here work for him. And, much of the investigating is going on off base. If he wanted to go he could tell the guys to stand down for about an hour. Nobody would be "distracted" or "diverted" from their interviews by a brief presidential visit. We're talking about interviews for cripes sake. There's no manhunt going on here since we know where "Dr." Hasan is. We have the murder weapons. We have the witnesses. We have the bullets. And any scientific analysis of the evidence is going on at a lab (probably the FBI's) which the president wouldn't be visiting. If his decision to stay away this weekend was based on some concern about compromising the investigation or stressing base personnel or whatever, then I would have expected the White House press office to get that out to the media. To my knowledge, they haven't done so.

Yeah, I may be a lowly poster on a hockey board but I haven't taken leave of my senses, haven't sold my soul at a Barack Obama yard sale and am unafraid to speak "truth to power," a concept you guys yammer about pretty consistently.

You can't discuss this matter, or any other apparantly, without being overly defensive of Obama. I offered some measured criticism of the great man earlier today and you (speaking collectively) have been hammering me all day long. Why? His response at the corn festival was awkward and off putting. And today he heads off to Camp David. He could have stopped by the base, but didn't. IMHO, he should have.

 

[French Rage]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Is there any defense you won't use? Yes of course it's possible the president has some secret inside information that would argue against a visit to the post. The principal agencies here work for him. And, much of the investigating is going on off base. If he wanted to go he could tell the guys to stand down for about an hour. Nobody would be "distracted" or "diverted" from their interviews by a brief presidential visit. We're talking about interviews for cripes sake. There's no manhunt going on here since we know where "Dr." Hasan is. We have the murder weapons. We have the witnesses. We have the bullets. And any scientific analysis of the evidence is going on at a lab (probably the FBI's) which the president wouldn't be visiting. If his decision to stay away this weekend was based on some concern about compromising the investigation or stressing base personnel or whatever, then I would have expected the White House press office to get that out to the media. To my knowledge, they haven't done so.

So, since he could order them to stand down if he wanted, he should, regardless of the effect it might have on ongoing investigations? That sounds like a winning idea. I honestly don't know what is being investigated where exactly, and who needs to be where, and what any distractions like a presidential visit. They could still be interviewing people, they could still need to look more at places where Hasan visited or worked, there could be a number of things. Overall, though, I know as little on it as you do, but my guess is his reasons have to do with things, you know, pertaining to the actual investigations. Unless you would like to posit some alternate reason we would have, since you seem so sure that it isn't for that reason.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

So, since he could order them to stand down if he wanted, he should, regardless of the effect it might have on ongoing investigations? That sounds like a winning idea. I honestly don't know what is being investigated where exactly, and who needs to be where, and what any distractions like a presidential visit. They could still be interviewing people, they could still need to look more at places where Hasan visited or worked, there could be a number of things. Overall, though, I know as little on it as you do, but my guess is his reasons have to do with things, you know, pertaining to the actual investigations. Unless you would like to posit some alternate reason we would have, since you seem so sure that it isn't for that reason.

Yeah, if the president's on the post the FBI can't interview Hasan's landlord, or the guy who sold him the gun(s) or his imam, or anybody. When the president's in town to meet the wounded, everything stops. Right? Don't be ridiculous. The federal government can walk and chew gum at the same time. All of your suggestions about nailing down "Dr." Hasan's life are spot on. Just one problem, most all of these investigations would be off base, thus not affected in the slightest by a presidential visit. What is it, exactly, about this investigation that you believe to be so time critical? That a delay of an hour or so would jeopardize the results. Any aspect of the investigation that vital would continue, regardless of who's in town.

You're prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, that there's some secret reason why he won't go to the base until Tuesday. I'm not. And we have the same evidence to go on. I would bet my lifetime subscription to Boy's Life that his absence from Fort Hood this weekend has nothing to do with the investigation. Just my humble opinion.

My guess? He didn't think a visit today was necessary, given that he's going on Tuesday. And I hesitate to point out that a visit on Tuesday, using your standard, could just as easily hamper the investigation. Again, I disagree and suggest that other recent presidents would have made an appearance this weekend. We can't know for sure, but I'm confident. And your contortions to defend him against my mild criticism aren't persuasive.

 

[French Rage]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Yeah, if the president's on the post the FBI can't interview Hasan's landlord, or the guy who sold him the gun(s) or his imam, or anybody. When the president's in town to meet the wounded, everything stops. Right? Don't be ridiculous. The federal government can walk and chew gum at the same time. All of your suggestions about nailing down "Dr." Hasan's life are spot on. Just one problem, most all of these investigations would be off base, thus not affected in the slightest by a presidential visit. What is it, exactly, about this investigation that you believe to be so time critical? That a delay of an hour or so would jeopardize the results. Any aspect of the investigation that vital would continue, regardless of who's in town.

You're prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, that there's some secret reason why he won't go to the base until Tuesday. I'm not. And we have the same evidence to go on. I would bet my lifetime subscription to Boy's Life that his absence from Fort Hood this weekend has nothing to do with the investigation. Just my humble opinion.

My guess? He didn't think a visit today was necessary, given that he's going on Tuesday. And I hesitate to point out that a visit on Tuesday, using your standard, could just as easily hamper the investigation. Again, I disagree and suggest that other recent presidents would have made an appearance this weekend. We can't know for sure, but I'm confident. And your contortions to defend him against my mild criticism aren't persuasive.

Of course his visit wouldn't bring every aspect of the investigation to a stand still, but it still may inconvenience it in certain ways. So perhaps they figure that it's best to avoid risking doing that for a few more days to give it more time, given that the president's involvement in anything that's going on there is secondary or tertiary at the most. You know what, in the end I really don't know. But frankly, in terms of what's going on, his visit while a nice morale booster is of minimal importance, and frankly whether it's today or Tuesday it ranks pretty far down the list. And it seems that most other people out there realize this and thus don't feel some need to read some ulterior motives out of the day chosen. But hey, you think other presidents would have hypothetically done something by now, well that's just super. And your entire indictment of him is that date he chose is three days too late for the subjective day you feel he should have appeared there, well, next time you can send him an email and let him know exactly when and how he should respond to every event that occurs, I'm sure he'll give your suggestion every bit of attention that it warrants.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Of course his visit wouldn't bring every aspect of the investigation to a stand still, but it still may inconvenience it in certain ways. So perhaps they figure that it's best to avoid risking doing that for a few more days to give it more time, given that the president's involvement in anything that's going on there is secondary or tertiary at the most. You know what, in the end I really don't know. But frankly, in terms of what's going on, his visit while a nice morale booster is of minimal importance, and frankly whether it's today or Tuesday it ranks pretty far down the list. And it seems that most other people out there realize this and thus don't feel some need to read some ulterior motives out of the day chosen. But hey, you think other presidents would have hypothetically done something by now, well that's just super. And your entire indictment of him is that date he chose is three days too late for the subjective day you feel he should have appeared there, well, next time you can send him an email and let him know exactly when and how he should respond to every event that occurs, I'm sure he'll give your suggestion every bit of attention that it warrants.

So instead of offering up this lame "he might hinder the investigation" nonsense, why don't you just say "he gets to chose what day he goes to the base and I'm fine with Tuesday?"

But no, you dress yourself up like Hercule Poirot, endlessly begging the question that a presidential visit would somehow (but you can't offer any examples) make it harder to get to the bottom of what happened there. And you continue to beg the question that the president has decided not to go until Tuesday because he agrees with you. Perhaps.

I'm betting most of the people at Fort Hood won't consider a visit by their commander in chief, under these circumstances, as "a nice morale booster." A presidential visit under these circumstances is much much more. Shame on you.

And your prissy "why don't you send him an e-mail" jape belongs in a middle school lunch room.

 

[Handyman]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Jesus you two...get a room already!

 

[Old Pio]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Jesus you two...get a room already!

As long as it comes equipped with Magic Fingers massage.

 

[French Rage]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

So instead of offering up this lame "he might hinder the investigation" nonsense, why don't you just say "he gets to chose what day he goes to the base and I'm fine with Tuesday?"

But no, you dress yourself up like Hercule Poirot, endlessly begging the question that a presidential visit would somehow (but you can't offer any examples) make it harder to get to the bottom of what happened there. And you continue to beg the question that the president has decided not to go until Tuesday because he agrees with you. Perhaps.

Becuase while he could just choose to go on which ever day he decided, and maybe he has, I'm also putting forth the possibility, however minute, that perhaps his decision may in some way, possibly not completely but in some part, be related to what needs to be done in terms of investigations. I'm not saying that was without a doubt the sole consideration that motivated his decision, but I am saying that looking at this in a logical manner it would make sense that those types of considerations would be the thing that would influence his decision more likely than not, as opposed to people who are so upset that he didn't choose the day they personally decided on that they chose to read some ulterior motive from his actions.

(As for how it might hinder stuff, a presidential visit isn't a lightweight excursion. You have to have people checking out the area before him, it requires a large entourage of security and staffers when he's there, and even though there is personal security like the Secret Service it would probably also require some cooperation from local and base law enforcement. This means a lot of additional people roaming around the area where they probably want things to not be messed around with for a bit after the shootings, and it could also pull people away from investigation related activities. Now, is it gauranteed any of that will happen and that it will definitely get in the way of something? No. But it could happen, so maybe they figured that playing it safe and giving a couple days buffer and not risking anything was in the end the most important consideration here. Do I know this for a fact, no.)

 

[Old Pio]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

Becuase while he could just choose to go on which ever day he decided, and maybe he has, I'm also putting forth the possibility, however minute, that perhaps his decision may in some way, possibly not completely but in some part, be related to what needs to be done in terms of investigations. I'm not saying that was without a doubt the sole consideration that motivated his decision, but I am saying that looking at this in a logical manner it would make sense that those types of considerations would be the thing that would influence his decision more likely than not, as opposed to people who are so upset that he didn't choose the day they personally decided on that they chose to read some ulterior motive from his actions.

(As for how it might hinder stuff, a presidential visit isn't a lightweight excursion. You have to have people checking out the area before him, it requires a large entourage of security and staffers when he's there, and even though there is personal security like the Secret Service it would probably also require some cooperation from local and base law enforcement. This means a lot of additional people roaming around the area where they probably want things to not be messed around with for a bit after the shootings, and it could also pull people away from investigation related activities. Now, is it gauranteed any of that will happen and that it will definitely get in the way of something? No. But it could happen, so maybe they figured that playing it safe and giving a couple days buffer and not risking anything was in the end the most important consideration here. Do I know this for a fact, no.)

Bosh. I'll give you credit though, you've created this phantom defense and you're sticking with it, no matter how ridiculous you sound. The president would be proud of you. And thanks for the exegesis on the logistics of presidential visits. Although what that has to do with the investigation is anybody's guess.

A presidential visit this weekend or on Tuesday would not result in "people roaming around the area," or "messing around" with things. If the president were taken to the center where the shootings occurred, it would only be after the area had been cleared by investigators. The principal agencies investigating this atrocity are the FBI and Army CID, neither of which has any direct responsibilities in presidential protection.

I haven't suggested an ulterior motive, I have suggested he made a mistake, an assertion against which you have to argue until your last breath, apparantly. There has to be a "good reason" why the president didn't go this weekend, not a miscalculation, so we have the French Rage defense. Sort of like the Clintons needing an excuse to fire those poor devils in the white house travel office. It just couldn't be politics as usual.

 

[French Rage]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

...And thanks for the exegesis on the logistics of presidential visits. Although what that has to do with the investigation is anybody's guess.

A presidential visit this weekend or on Tuesday would not result in "people roaming around the area," or "messing around" with things. If the president were taken to the center where the shootings occurred, it would only be after the area had been cleared by investigators. The principal agencies investigating this atrocity are the FBI and Army CID, neither of which has any direct responsibilities in presidential protection.

And to what extent have things been cleared? In the end a presidential visit is more than the president by himself taking a cab there, and in the end I think anyone would agree that making double sure everything else is done is a little more important than an appearance by one person.

I haven't suggested an ulterior motive, I have suggested he made a mistake, an assertion against which you have to argue until your last breath, apparantly. There has to be a "good reason" why the president didn't go this weekend, not a miscalculation, so we have the French Rage defense. Sort of like the Clintons needing an excuse to fire those poor devils in the white house travel office. It just couldn't be politics as usual.

So it's ridiculous for me to suggest that concerns for the investigations of one of the worst shootings ever could play any part whatsoever in what day the president makes a visit, and completely reasonable for you to expect it plays no part whatsoever. Note I'm not saying they consulted some complex mathematical formula of when every aspect of the investigation would be finished and made that their absolute only consideration of when the president would visit. But maybe they said "OK, the shooting occurred on Thursday, maybe we should give them through the weekend to straighten things up, and go early in the week" and came upon Tuesday from there. (The preceding was a dramatization as I'm not psychic and thus as non-privy to what went on as anyone else here.) So some random subjectivity from them there choosing Tueday over say, Monday or Wednesday, and in this hypothetical maybe they could have chosen Monday over Tuesday. In the end, it comes down to people thinking the day they felt the president should have visited is so incontravertably correct that anyone who chooses another must have done it for purely personal reasons and without regard for any other considerations. (Why didn't he go on Friday? That's earlier than Saturday! Or would investigators be too busy on Friday but not on Saturday? Is there some magical 36 hour investigation cutoff I'm not aware of? What about Sunday? Would that still be acceptable, or would it be too late and would it mean the president made a mistake? Is so, what is it about Sunday that is so horrible? The fact any of this even becomes a debate is so subjective and pointless. In the end, the president came to a different conclusion than you, one that will make little if any difference in the long run, and neither you or I can be completely sure of what went into that decision, so deal with it.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

and in the end we all have the right to criticize moves by our president. that pesky freedom of speech thing.

so is this a terror atttack? I heard that Joe Lieberman suggested that on a talk show this morning?

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

so is this a terror atttack? I heard that Joe Lieberman suggested that on a talk show this morning?

Depends on whether or not you're a Republican.

 

[blockski]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

so is this a terror atttack? I heard that Joe Lieberman suggested that on a talk show this morning?

Well, that's what you get when you try to fight a war against a nebulous concept like 'terror.'

Was this a terror attack? I'll bet those being attacked were terrified, yes. Was it a coordinated attack? Doesn't seem like it. What about the kid that shot up VA Tech? If this was a terror attack (based solely on the events), then that must be one, too.

Language matters. We'd all be served well to be specific.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

and, um, how bout those Yankees?

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: At least seven killed at Fort Hood

So it's ridiculous for me to suggest that concerns for the investigations of one of the worst shootings ever could play any part whatsoever in what day the president makes a visit,

Yes. It's almost as pathetic as the Bushies claiming that W would have scared the little children by immediately getting up and leaving the classroom on 9/11 after he heard the news.