#1collegehockeyfan
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ASU will start the Domino effect. The Pac 12 slowly but surely add teams.
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Arizona State Moving To D1
- Thread starter TonyTheTiger20
- Start date
ASU will start the Domino effect. The Pac 12 slowly but surely add teams.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Right, just like Penn State has in the Big 10, smack in the middle of hockey country and a whole bunch of other potential opponents that negate or lessen many of the travel issues for any school contemplating this.
That's why Iowa, Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, and Rutgers all have announced plans to become the next members of the Big 10 Hockey Conference. Because finding 100 million plus, even at these fabulously wealthy schools, to get this started in any sort of meaningful way (read: do it right) is so easy to come by.
And, there are so many people just waiting in the wings and chomping at the bit to do this at their PAC-12 alma maters, particularly since there is so much pent up demand to see college hockey (hell, hockey, at all) in places like Tucson, Corvallis, Berkeley, Eugene, et al.
Anybody out there want to share a local news story with us where some other PAC-12 school is definitively taking a look at this or even seriously thinking about it? Because I am guessing that, beyond the wishful thinking stage, it ain't happenin' anywhere anytime soon.
Before anybody wants to pontificate on the possibilities of D-1 college hockey at their respective school you must remember these 3 things:
1. What is the sports scholarship endowment ratio of men to women at the school? If you are not in a financial position to add women's scholarships in an existing or new women's sport roughly commensurate to what you'd add for men's college hockey, which is 18 scholarships (note: few schools are one-to-one today, even with Title IX), you are NOT adding men's D-1 hockey and you can stop the conversation right here and now.
2. Do you have a place to play and a place to practice if you don't have the appropriate facilities on your campus? Can your potential program forgo revenue streams like parking, concessions, club seating, team apparel sales, and suites in a building you might have to rent to play in? Because you aren't going to see those monies in a building you don't own.
3. Can you afford to build on-campus facilities, which are going to, at some point, be a must for any really serious hockey program to recruit to, AND, can you afford to build the new facilities for whatever women's sport(s) you have to add, as well?
I assume that everybody that keeps speculating on this understands that, outside of football, hockey is the most expensive sport to operate and maintain in college athletics? Do you understand how expensive is to own and operate an ice rink?
I just roll my eyes at all these people that think this is just SO easy and it's going to start happening everywhere. If it was SO easy then everybody WOULD be doing it.
Newsflash. No, it isn't.
Unless some big pockets donor comes up with the money at some other school, PAC-12 or not (which is what it took at both Penn State and at ASU), the thought that some sort of domino effect is going to come into play is a non-starter.
The only way I could potentially see some sort of PAC-12 hockey conference really get going outside of all these "mythical donors" is if the conference, itself, out of its own revenue pool, subsidized the start-up of programs at at least 5 other schools besides ASU. And, this would have to somehow make economic sense to the entire conference as a whole and I freely admit that I don't know if it could be done so that it would.
I don't see any school in the PAC-12 adding hockey in the foreseeable future. I don't think the money, inclination, demand, insert your own adjective here, is there to do it.
Sorry to be a downer here but all this talk about other schools jumping on board is just knee jerk wishful thinking. It happened after Penn State and it is happening here. And, the announced, serious attempts to add D-1 hockey at the few schools that have actually tried recently, without a major donation, have all failed.
Right, just like Penn State has in the Big 10, smack in the middle of hockey country and a whole bunch of other potential opponents that negate or lessen many of the travel issues for any school contemplating this.
That's why Iowa, Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, and Rutgers all have announced plans to become the next members of the Big 10 Hockey Conference. Because finding 100 million plus, even at these fabulously wealthy schools, to get this started in any sort of meaningful way (read: do it right) is so easy to come by.
And, there are so many people just waiting in the wings and chomping at the bit to do this at their PAC-12 alma maters, particularly since there is so much pent up demand to see college hockey (hell, hockey, at all) in places like Tucson, Corvallis, Berkeley, Eugene, et al.
Anybody out there want to share a local news story with us where some other PAC-12 school is definitively taking a look at this or even seriously thinking about it? Because I am guessing that, beyond the wishful thinking stage, it ain't happenin' anywhere anytime soon.
Before anybody wants to pontificate on the possibilities of D-1 college hockey at their respective school you must remember these 3 things:
1. What is the sports scholarship endowment ratio of men to women at the school? If you are not in a financial position to add women's scholarships in an existing or new women's sport roughly commensurate to what you'd add for men's college hockey, which is 18 scholarships (note: few schools are one-to-one today, even with Title IX), you are NOT adding men's D-1 hockey and you can stop the conversation right here and now.
2. Do you have a place to play and a place to practice if you don't have the appropriate facilities on your campus? Can your potential program forgo revenue streams like parking, concessions, club seating, team apparel sales, and suites in a building you might have to rent to play in? Because you aren't going to see those monies in a building you don't own.
3. Can you afford to build on-campus facilities, which are going to, at some point, be a must for any really serious hockey program to recruit to, AND, can you afford to build the new facilities for whatever women's sport(s) you have to add, as well?
I assume that everybody that keeps speculating on this understands that, outside of football, hockey is the most expensive sport to operate and maintain in college athletics? Do you understand how expensive is to own and operate an ice rink?
I just roll my eyes at all these people that think this is just SO easy and it's going to start happening everywhere. If it was SO easy then everybody WOULD be doing it.
Newsflash. No, it isn't.
Unless some big pockets donor comes up with the money at some other school, PAC-12 or not (which is what it took at both Penn State and at ASU), the thought that some sort of domino effect is going to come into play is a non-starter.
The only way I could potentially see some sort of PAC-12 hockey conference really get going outside of all these "mythical donors" is if the conference, itself, out of its own revenue pool, subsidized the start-up of programs at at least 5 other schools besides ASU. And, this would have to somehow make economic sense to the entire conference as a whole and I freely admit that I don't know if it could be done so that it would.
I don't see any school in the PAC-12 adding hockey in the foreseeable future. I don't think the money, inclination, demand, insert your own adjective here, is there to do it.
Sorry to be a downer here but all this talk about other schools jumping on board is just knee jerk wishful thinking. It happened after Penn State and it is happening here. And, the announced, serious attempts to add D-1 hockey at the few schools that have actually tried recently, without a major donation, have all failed.
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gfmorris
New member
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Red Cows is right. All ASU's entry does is provide a node for southwestern expansion of the sport, but NAU provided that, too. Is ASU a bigger name than NAU? Yes, in the same way that UAH is far smaller down here than, say, Alabama. But if they put a D-1 team in Tuscaloosa — which they won't — it's not like that would create an SECHC, even though they're in the same situation as the Pac-12 in terms of having a TV network with openings for programming in winter.
Red Cows is right. All ASU's entry does is provide a node for southwestern expansion of the sport, but NAU provided that, too. Is ASU a bigger name than NAU? Yes, in the same way that UAH is far smaller down here than, say, Alabama. But if they put a D-1 team in Tuscaloosa — which they won't — it's not like that would create an SECHC, even though they're in the same situation as the Pac-12 in terms of having a TV network with openings for programming in winter.
MAVFANJEFF
broomslinger
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
red cows gave plenty of food for thought. one thing I wanted to bring up is that if any schools want to use UNO"s start of a div 1 program please remember they we were all in div 2 and none of those other sports we did 2
Ill finish thisup wen my ambien wears off
red cows gave plenty of food for thought. one thing I wanted to bring up is that if any schools want to use UNO"s start of a div 1 program please remember they we were all in div 2 and none of those other sports we did 2
Ill finish thisup wen my ambien wears off
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Powers &8^]
The difference is that Penn State had conference mates ready to go. Do you really think ASU would be making the jump if they didn't think/know that other western schools were seriously considering it?
Yes, RIT and Robert Morris certainly are failures.
Powers &8^]
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
I totally agree that maybe ASU jumped a bit to early and with not really enough money. However, they apparently do have a revenue stream or two that will cover construction costs of an on campus building. And the 30 mil will most likely cover the operating expenses of the two sports required.
Having said that, I think that the PAC 10 has seen how much money is coming in on the cable for big teams and they want that kind of revenue as well. So the league as a whole is encouraging, and if ASU makes it go, others will most likely come along at some point.
Still it does make you wonder, with as many Big teams as there are that do not have hockey, why, if it's such a great deal, they aren't doing it. It makes better sense for them than it does for west coast schools.
I totally agree that maybe ASU jumped a bit to early and with not really enough money. However, they apparently do have a revenue stream or two that will cover construction costs of an on campus building. And the 30 mil will most likely cover the operating expenses of the two sports required.
Having said that, I think that the PAC 10 has seen how much money is coming in on the cable for big teams and they want that kind of revenue as well. So the league as a whole is encouraging, and if ASU makes it go, others will most likely come along at some point.
Still it does make you wonder, with as many Big teams as there are that do not have hockey, why, if it's such a great deal, they aren't doing it. It makes better sense for them than it does for west coast schools.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Yup, sure do, since this is so well thought out they couldn't even say at the press conference announcing this where they are going to play next season when they were asked.
Yup, REALLY sounded well thought out. Did you SEE the press conference?
Very informative. These guys missed their calling. They should have been politicians, instead. Long on rhetoric and assumptions and very short on facts.
If other schools were "in the mix" as you say, don't you think they'd be proudly naming names? You know, strength in numbers? Or, maybe the conference itself? This story is nowhere to be found on the Pac-12 Conference's own home page.
Yup, sure do, since this is so well thought out they couldn't even say at the press conference announcing this where they are going to play next season when they were asked.
Yup, REALLY sounded well thought out. Did you SEE the press conference?
Very informative. These guys missed their calling. They should have been politicians, instead. Long on rhetoric and assumptions and very short on facts.
If other schools were "in the mix" as you say, don't you think they'd be proudly naming names? You know, strength in numbers? Or, maybe the conference itself? This story is nowhere to be found on the Pac-12 Conference's own home page.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
I said RECENT.
RIT went D-1 in the '05-'06 season. Robert Morris in '04-'05.
Unless you consider a decade ago "recent" and, I didn't in the context of what I was talking about.
I said RECENT.
RIT went D-1 in the '05-'06 season. Robert Morris in '04-'05.
Unless you consider a decade ago "recent" and, I didn't in the context of what I was talking about.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Aside from Penn State, they're the two most recent additions of D-I men's hockey. Unless by "attempt" you meant programs that never got beyond the blue-sky stage of exploring D-I, I don't know who else you could mean.
Powers &8^]
Aside from Penn State, they're the two most recent additions of D-I men's hockey. Unless by "attempt" you meant programs that never got beyond the blue-sky stage of exploring D-I, I don't know who else you could mean.
Powers &8^]
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Minnesota State Moorhead, just for starters:
http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/27/minnesota-state-moorhead-will-not-add-hockey-to-athletics-slate/
Minnesota State Moorhead, just for starters:
http://www.uscho.com/2012/02/27/minnesota-state-moorhead-will-not-add-hockey-to-athletics-slate/
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Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Us Alaska teams would welcome that. The breakdown for the first five years or so would bee:
Denver
CC?
UAA
UA_
everybody else (don't know anything about the other teams but I'd imagine they would bee in a similar situation as Alabama-Huntsville)
Actually it is perfect, then we wouldn't have those long *** trips East Coast (not that we complain about them).
Us Alaska teams would welcome that. The breakdown for the first five years or so would bee:
Denver
CC?
UAA
UA_
everybody else (don't know anything about the other teams but I'd imagine they would bee in a similar situation as Alabama-Huntsville)
Actually it is perfect, then we wouldn't have those long *** trips East Coast (not that we complain about them).
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Yes, because reddit is the place to go to for sports (rolls eyes).
Yes, because reddit is the place to go to for sports (rolls eyes).
You lost your credibility when you said there is no interest for college hockey in oregon. A Canadian junior team draws pretty dang well in that state.. As does a single A baseball club. You're talking about a state with one pro sports team (two if you count soccer). If the ducks were to get a college hockey team it would be a big deal
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Reddit is where I do most of my internet-based-sports-following-stuff that doesn't involve watching games. It's a pretty great way to get well sorted links, comments, and discussions.
Anyway, to be fair to subscribers of ASU-related subreddits, an article was posted on /r/sundevils.
Reddit is where I do most of my internet-based-sports-following-stuff that doesn't involve watching games. It's a pretty great way to get well sorted links, comments, and discussions.
Anyway, to be fair to subscribers of ASU-related subreddits, an article was posted on /r/sundevils.
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Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Is that the best place to get information on your teams? I have never heard of this before.
Reddit in its whole does not cater largely to sports fans, only in select ways. I only check it it for info on the NCAA football game that is now discontinued.
Is that the best place to get information on your teams? I have never heard of this before.
Reddit in its whole does not cater largely to sports fans, only in select ways. I only check it it for info on the NCAA football game that is now discontinued.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
They at best outdraw are Sacred Heart, Bentley, and American International. They play in a little dump of an arena that is off campus. There is no land available to build on campus. No land around the dump the play in either. I just drove through the campus today.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
For a lot of sports, it's excellent, even for specific teams. I don't know about the "best place to get information," but getting a lot of highlights, discussion, and links to articles in one place is nice. (And then there was this article, which a user wrote as a self post on /r/cfb.)
Here's /r/hockey. Scroll down on the sidebar to go to any of the NHL team subreddits if you want to see what those look like.
For a lot of sports, it's excellent, even for specific teams. I don't know about the "best place to get information," but getting a lot of highlights, discussion, and links to articles in one place is nice. (And then there was this article, which a user wrote as a self post on /r/cfb.)
Here's /r/hockey. Scroll down on the sidebar to go to any of the NHL team subreddits if you want to see what those look like.
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
Really? Then why don't they have a D-1 program? I'm all ears.
In any event, I don't know where you got I said there was no hockey interest specifically in Oregon. My point was that there is nobody coming forth (read: big pockets) that has made hockey happen in any of the places I mentioned and it can be reasonably inferred that the interest isn't there, or, there would be D-1 hockey in the cities I talked about (and I named 4 random PAC-12 towns). I could have just as easily cited 4 other cities in the PAC-12.
I'm also interested in hearing how a Canadian Juniors team draws well in Oregon. I assume they must play some games south of the border? Where and why? And, what a single A baseball team and what it draws has to do with this discourse I have absolutely no idea.
Really? Then why don't they have a D-1 program? I'm all ears.
In any event, I don't know where you got I said there was no hockey interest specifically in Oregon. My point was that there is nobody coming forth (read: big pockets) that has made hockey happen in any of the places I mentioned and it can be reasonably inferred that the interest isn't there, or, there would be D-1 hockey in the cities I talked about (and I named 4 random PAC-12 towns). I could have just as easily cited 4 other cities in the PAC-12.
I'm also interested in hearing how a Canadian Juniors team draws well in Oregon. I assume they must play some games south of the border? Where and why? And, what a single A baseball team and what it draws has to do with this discourse I have absolutely no idea.
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Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Arizona State Moving To D1
He's undoubtedly referring to the WHL's Portland Winterhawks. The WHL has one five-team Division consisting of four teams in Washington and the Winterhawks.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
I totally read that as "All they need is a big boner".