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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

jmh said:
So... physicians are going to be providing patients with information about advanced care planning? I think I'm missing what you find to be so objectionable about this.
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It might be construed or viewed by some as a gateway to euthanasia, removal of life support, etc. Not sure why it's there, as most states already allow for the execution of living wills of various flavors.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

jmh said:
So... physicians are going to be providing patients with information about advanced care planning? I think I'm missing what you find to be so objectionable about this.
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Leading down the dark path ... "You're 80 years old. Your health is not too bad, but not that great either. The pacemaker that can keep you alive for another 10 years is not something that we wish to do as your quality of life at 85 or 90 will not be that good. Instead, let's make you comfortable for the next 18 months when we expect your heart to give out...."
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

grabij said:
I always thought that COBRA wasn't a stand alone benefit pool like Medicare or Medicaid but a regulation that forces companies to allow terminated or former empolyees to remain on the company health plan for a certain amount of time with the former employee bearing 100% of the premium cost? If my current employer dropped their health plan I don't think COBRA would apply since there isn't a health plan to participate in nor would I be a former employee.

Maybe someone more versed in employee benefits can chime in.
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COBRA allows former employees who had health benefits the right to buy into the company's insurance policy. The payment is 102% and the duration in my case was 29 months. I don't know if that's the standard length or if it's based on some other factors.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Obama now decides who lives or dies....he IS powerful!
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Priceless said:
Obama now decides who lives or dies....he IS powerful!
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It's a simple cost-benefit analysis. Is it more cost effective to save someone who is young and regularly exercises and doesn't smoke who falls down a flight of stairs while jogging, or to save a morbidly obese guy with a weak ticker and sleep apnea who has to be forklifted out of his own home?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Where does the assumption suddenly come from that doctors are now going to tell patients to die?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

joecct said:
Leading down the dark path ... "You're 80 years old. Your health is not too bad, but not that great either. The pacemaker that can keep you alive for another 10 years is not something that we wish to do as your quality of life at 85 or 90 will not be that good. Instead, let's make you comfortable for the next 18 months when we expect your heart to give out...."
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Most MDs, if they are held to standards of care, are already obligated to give you a "cost-benefit" analysis. And I think most do just because they care about their patients' well being. What's your next hypothesis: Mandatory abortions for left-handed Latina lesbians?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

if he's MY morbidly obese guy with a weak ticker and sleep apnea who has to be forklifted out of his own home, I don't want the govt deciding.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

joecct said:
Denmark
Oregon
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Doctors tell patients to die in Oregon? Can I trouble you to site some stories where this happened, as opposed to a patient requesting assistance to die, which was my original understanding of the law.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

huskyfan said:
if he's MY morbidly obese guy with a weak ticker and sleep apnea who has to be forklifted out of his own home, I don't want the govt deciding.
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But this doesn't say anything about doctors or the government deciding. It says they provide information so people know what their options are - options that are already out there (living wills, hospice care, etc.) but that people may simply not be aware of. Sure, there's the possibility that some doctors may say "well, you know, you really should fill out a DNR in case X happens," but those same doctors are already out there giving that advice to patients anyway (whether this is right or wrong is besides the point), so the bill has nothing to do with it. Personally, I think it's good for people to know what their options are. If you're morally opposed to, say, removing life support, then these consultations will be just as valuable to you to learn how to make sure that doesn't happen if you're incapacitated. Further, if you provide elderly patients with information about the ways in which they can make their wishes known, you reduce the potential for conflict among relatives who might otherwise fight over how an unforeseen situation should be handled.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

We just need to look at the other countries where socialized medicine has been WILDLY successful and just do what they're doing. Canada and the UK keep popping up.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

jmh said:
But this doesn't say anything about doctors or the government deciding. It says they provide information so people know what their options are - options that are already out there (living wills, hospice care, etc.) but that people may simply not be aware of. Sure, there's the possibility that some doctors may say "well, you know, you really should fill out a DNR in case X happens," but those same doctors are already out there giving that advice to patients anyway (whether this is right or wrong is besides the point), so the bill has nothing to do with it. Personally, I think it's good for people to know what their options are. If you're morally opposed to, say, removing life support, then these consultations will be just as valuable to you to learn how to make sure that doesn't happen if you're incapacitated. Further, if you provide elderly patients with information about the ways in which they can make their wishes known, you reduce the potential for conflict among relatives who might otherwise fight over how an unforeseen situation should be handled.
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When I was diagnosed a nurse asked if I wanted to make out a living will. I admit I was a little preoccupied at the time, so it was a good reminder. It's now on file at local hospitals, MGH, my doctor and I have a copy. If that nurse hadn't asked me about it, I doubt I would have thought of it. If something had gone wrong, my wishes would still be carried out. If that equals state-run euthanasia, somehow I slipped through the cracks.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I have to laugh at the strawman arguments out here. A few more of them and we'll have enough hay to feed a dozen horses.

Who said anything about setting up a single payer system in these health care proposals like in other countries?

Or, where does it say that doctors decide who dies?

I think we all could use some references to see where these proposals are...
 
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