America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

It just strikes me as odd that you need a photo ID to board a plane, may need one to buy a pizza (if paying by credit card), but then only need knowledge of 2 facts (name and address) to vote.

There's nothing odd about it. Think about the (D) voter base that gets lost when you have to verify an address with a picture ID.

 

[SPIN CONTROL]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Why then are we making it harder for people to exercise their right to vote?

"Hi, I am here to vote."
"name please?"
"SPIN CONTROL"
"Can I see an ID?"
"Here you go."
"You're all set Mr. CONTROL."

****, what a pain in the ***** that was.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Please do. We all got a chuckle here in the office after your first call. Speaker phones are fun.

That's right, I did dial the unemployment office by mistake. Why did they let you go behind the counter and man the phones though?

unofan, you need an ID to order a pizza? Yikes man - wherever you are you need to get the hell out of there.

But again though, the fraud is more prevalent in absentee ballots than in people actually showing up at the polls. So I'll say again what problem are we trying to solve? This doesn't seem to do anything but make it harder to vote. The problems in Florida for example had nothing to do with this - it was poorly designed ballots. Not aware of any real issues in Minnesota.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

"Hi, I am here to vote."
"name please?"
"SPIN CONTROL"
"Can I see an ID?"
"Here you go."
"You're all set Mr. CONTROL."

****, what a pain in the ***** that was.

Well, let's be fair, with ID, it would go something like this:

1) "Can I see a photo ID, please"
**finds name on list, verifies address, verifies person**
2) "Thank you, Mr. Spin Control, here's your ballot"

See how little talking was involved? This will shorten lines and make voting easier for citizens.

Here's how it works now:

1) "Name, please"
2) "Mr. Spin Control"
3) "You reside at 123 Spongebob Place"
4) "No, I live at 456 Squarepants Ave."
5) "Ahhh....OK, here you are"
6) "Here's your ballot, Mr. Spin Control"

Much talking and no address verification or person verification.

If some local DNC operative had offered me a couple of Lucky's, I could have voted for 12 dead peeps at 12 different voting stations.

 

[unofan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

unofan, you need an ID to order a pizza? Yikes man - wherever you are you need to get the hell out of there.

I didn't mind...I was paying with plastic, and my signature on the card is smudged. Frankly, I wish more retailers took that kind of measure.

(There's a blog out there somewhere where a guy started seeing how messed up his signature on a receipt would be until the retailer called him on it...he never got pressed on it until he tried to buy a big screen TV from Best Buy, at which point he thanked them for being the first retailer in 6 months to actually try to match his signature with the one on the card)

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in any widespread form, so I question the true motives of anybody pushing this. Show me where massive amounts of fraudulent votes are making it into the system because of people without photo ID? You and people you know may have one, but not everybody does. Why then are we making it harder for people to exercise their right to vote? Say you do start requiring photo ID's. What photos are allowed? Only current licenses? What if you move from out of state? What if you move within a state? Usually they put a sticker on the back of your license with your new address, while the old one is still on the front. Do we then disqualify those people from voting???

You're trying to create problems where there are none. It's really simple.

Require a state issued photo ID (i.e. a driver's license or a free generic state ID). The address on the ID has to match the address you're registered at (I know some people do move mid-voting cycle, and that issue needs to be worked out). When you move and get that sticker on the back of the ID with your new address that is your valid address and anyone who has the job of checking an ID should know this. I know not everyone has an ID (lazyasses), but it's not hard to get and it doesn't cost any money so there's really no excuse for not having one.

If you're required to have ID to write a check or use a credit card why then is it a problem to have ID to vote? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I didn't mind...I was paying with plastic, and my signature on the card is smudged. Frankly, I wish more retailers took that kind of measure.

As replacement plastic comes in, I'm putting "See ID" on the back - beats the hell out of unscrambling ID theft.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

If you're required to have ID to write a check or use a credit card why then is it a problem to have ID to vote? Doesn't make any sense.

Because writing a check and using a credit card are privileges extended by private corporations, while voting is a public right?

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I didn't mind...I was paying with plastic, and my signature on the card is smudged. Frankly, I wish more retailers took that kind of measure.

Definitely. I haven't quite reached the jerk "why didn't you check my signature?" stage (I've heard patrons challenge merchants like that), but I'm very appreciative when the counter girl takes the time to actually check the signature against the credit card. I can always tell because my sig is awful, so there's usually a double-take and often a quick glance to see if I match my credit card picture.

At least, that's how I've been interpreting that furtive glance all these years...

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Because writing a check and using a credit card are privileges extended by private corporations, while voting is a public right?

The point being, if an ID is required for such mundane everyday activities then it should be a non-issue for something as important as voting.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Because writing a check and using a credit card are privileges extended by private corporations, while voting is a public right?

Well then, it should be my public right to drive a car *without* a drivers license anymore. That way I can speed and not worry about ramifications.

Same diff. It's a public right as long as I'm qualified and having a driver's license with a photo are my credentials.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Because writing a check and using a credit card are privileges extended by private corporations, while voting is a public right?

Precisely.

To use your example Moe, you've now disqualified more people to vote who should be able to than you're preventing from committing voter fraud (by impersonating somebody else at a polling station). People moving between elections is a big problem. Its not just some people - its tens of millions. No way do you start making it harder for these people to vote (again using your specific criteria) to address a problem that, if it exists, is way smaller than the supposed cure. Voting is a right in this country subject to certain Constitutional criteria, and the state's need to verify who you are. Right now, in an election where 100 million people vote, significant problems of people impersonating others at the polling stations has not been shown to have occurred. Why then do we make it harder for tens of millions to excerise their constitutional right?

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Precisely.

To use your example Moe, you've now disqualified more people to vote who should be able to than you're preventing from committing voter fraud (by impersonating somebody else at a polling station). People moving between elections is a big problem. Its not just some people - its tens of millions. No way do you start making it harder for these people to vote (again using your specific criteria) to address a problem that, if it exists, is way smaller than the supposed cure. Voting is a right in this country subject to certain Constitutional criteria, and the state's need to verify who you are. Right now, in an election where 100 million people vote, significant problems of people impersonating others at the polling stations has not been shown to have occurred. Why then do we make it harder for tens of millions to excerise their constitutional right?

The problem with your argument is that you assume requiring ID prevents people from voting, but it doesn't. Yes, people move... vote where you're registered at (the address on your ID and your registration change together in most states). Sure some people move far away and miss the registration deadline, but having an ID or not doesn't change whether they missed the registration deadline. Once again you're trying to show problems that just don't exist.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

You're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in any widespread form...

Given that photo ID is not currently required, how can we be certain that this isn't widespread? Unless you have an antenna, how do you know if there are any radio signals flying around?

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Unless you have an antenna, how do you know if there are any radio signals flying around?

Maybe not the best analogy for around here...

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Well then, it should be my public right to drive a car *without* a drivers license anymore. That way I can speed and not worry about ramifications.

Same diff. It's a public right as long as I'm qualified and having a driver's license with a photo are my credentials.

I agree that a photo ID should be required to vote, but this is a horse**** rebuttal to Kep's point.

 

[unofan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I just don't see how requiring some form of identification disenfranchises these millions of voters that you're claiming. Between passports, driver's licenses, military ID's, and state-issued ID cards, you've got the vast, vast majority of the country covered. (and given the likely self selection involved, the % of people on the voting rolls with one of these forms of ID is likely to be even higher than the % of the country taken at large - I'm guessing Jenny the soccer mom is more likely to vote than Joe the homeless person)

But, I'm not even advocating that it would have to be a photo id. Like I said, in rural areas where people really do know everyone in town, then personal knowledge of identity would be sufficient (as it is for notaries public).

Though a photo ID would be simplest, it could also be something like what employers use for their I9's: a birth certificate/social security card/green card. Hell, I'd be happy with some form of proof of residence, such as a utility bill or mortgage payment stub.

I just think it should be something more than just a person saying a name and an address.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

The problem with your argument is that you assume requiring ID prevents people from voting, but it doesn't. Yes, people move... vote where you're registered at (the address on your ID and your registration change together in most states). Sure some people move far away and miss the registration deadline, but having an ID or not doesn't change whether they missed the registration deadline. Once again you're trying to show problems that just don't exist.

Ummm....moe, I'm answering an example that you brought up. In case you forgot what you wrote:

Require a state issued photo ID (i.e. a driver's license or a free generic state ID). The address on the ID has to match the address you're registered at (I know some people do move mid-voting cycle, and that issue needs to be worked out).

Essentually you're having an argument with yourself, which is really weird. I'll let you sort it out before I jump back in.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Though a photo ID would be simplest, it could also be something like what employers use for their I9's: a birth certificate/social security card/green card. Hell, I'd be happy with some form of proof of residence, such as a utility bill or mortgage payment stub.

I just think it should be something more than just a person saying a name and an address.

I can live with that. This ought to cover more people, although I wonder how much alleged fraud it would prevent....

 

[sagard]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

If some local DNC operative had offered me a couple of Lucky's, I could have voted for 12 dead peeps at 12 different voting stations.

The Repub operatives would have suppressed you in at least 11 of those voting stations.