Americans-Canadians

[osualum86]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I've posted in this thread before and have been reading the responses. It seems to me that a college coach who is being paid to win games is going to recruit the most skilled players who will fit their system. I honestly don't understand all the hand-wringing from some about all the Canadian players at US colleges. If they are wearing your sweater, does it really matter what their nationality is? I'm an Ohio State grad and if Coach Barto thinks a Canadian player or a European player is the best fit for her program, I have no problem with that. As long as they are wearing Scarlet & Gray, I am cheering them on.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I've posted in this thread before and have been reading the responses. It seems to me that a college coach who is being paid to win games is going to recruit the most skilled players who will fit their system. I honestly don't understand all the hand-wringing from some about all the Canadian players at US colleges. If they are wearing your sweater, does it really matter what their nationality is? I'm an Ohio State grad and if Coach Barto thinks a Canadian player or a European player is the best fit for her program, I have no problem with that. As long as they are wearing Scarlet & Gray, I am cheering them on.

I think you are missing the point of the discussion. No one is disputing the fact that a coach should be able to pick the best player and he or she is paid to win. The question is whether or not there is a perceived or real bias towards Canadian players. In other words, if there is a stereotype that Canadians are better hockey players than Americans is it an unjustified stereotype that is hurting American players? I will go on record as saying I don't know the answer to the question but I am interested in hearing reasonable people discuss whether or not US players measure up.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I think you are missing the point of the discussion. No one is disputing the fact that a coach should be able to pick the best player and he or she is paid to win. The question is whether or not there is a perceived or real bias towards Canadian players. In other words, if there is a stereotype that Canadians are better hockey players than Americans is it an unjustified stereotype that is hurting American players? I will go on record as saying I don't know the answer to the question but I am interested in hearing reasonable people discuss whether or not US players measure up.

You don't think that a coach would be stupid enough to pick a player based on a stereotype do you?

 

[brookyone]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I think you are missing the point of the discussion. No one is disputing the fact that a coach should be able to pick the best player and he or she is paid to win. The question is whether or not there is a perceived or real bias towards Canadian players. In other words, if there is a stereotype that Canadians are better hockey players than Americans is it an unjustified stereotype that is hurting American players? I will go on record as saying I don't know the answer to the question but I am interested in hearing reasonable people discuss whether or not US players measure up.

Well I'd give you my opinion...but that would really **** a couple people off.

 

[LG4]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Well I'd give you my opinion...but that would really **** a couple people off.

Lets not look at that minnesota stereotype neither

 

[sillywench]

Re: Americans-Canadians

You don't think that a coach would be stupid enough to pick a player based on a stereotype do you?

Consciously? - redonkulous. Just like your phrasing.

It is far more likely that they would simply FAIL to pick a player based on a stereotype. Or a bias. Or lack of familiarity and understanding of background. Or the word or lack of positive words from a 'buddy' or someone with whom there is a level of 'comfort' - ie. folks with the same understanding (and probably the same background) as the coach.

I am not talking about a level or magnitude that any idiot can observe - no coach is that stupid. ok, well, most.

Sorry, but your's and others' repeated protests of how much better the Canadian girls are ARE stereotype and bias. It IS out there.

If the level of players was SO incredibly different between the US and the Canadian female player population, shouldn't the the Canucks be completely dominant in international women's play?

 

[brookyone]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Lets not look at that minnesota stereotype neither

I'm talking US of A players.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Consciously? - redonkulous. Just like your phrasing.

It is far more likely that they would simply FAIL to pick a player based on a stereotype. Or a bias. Or lack of familiarity and understanding of background. Or the word or lack of positive words from a 'buddy' or someone with whom there is a level of 'comfort' - ie. folks with the same understanding (and probably the same background) as the coach.

I am not talking about a level or magnitude that any idiot can observe - no coach is that stupid. ok, well, most.

Sorry, but your's and others' repeated protests of how much better the Canadian girls are ARE stereotype and bias. It IS out there.

If the level of players was SO incredibly different between the US and the Canadian female player population, shouldn't the the Canucks be completely dominant in international women's play?

I don't think that I have ever said that Canadian players are so incredibly better or whatever. As a matter of fact, I have stated many times that both nations are very close. Next time, get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off. Phrase this.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Americans-Canadians

You don't think that a coach would be stupid enough to pick a player based on a stereotype do you?

Hmm....No but I don't think its that easy. I'm sure that a coach would pick the best player if he or she could see the best players regardless of their domicile compete against each other. This happens in a limited context (i.e. not many girls get this chance) when USA plays Canada in USA Hockey events. There are many thousands of women hockey players. There isn't a coach alive that has the time to scout more than a small fraction of those players. If time is precious and a coach believes that Canada has the best players then the coach will spend most of his or her limited time looking at Canadians. I even think there might be a bias in Canada where I've heard more than a few say the best players are in Toronto and Quebec. If there is a stereotype I don't think its overt discrimination but if there is a bias then due to economics and limited amount of time available to recruit it can be difficult for US girls to overcome the bias.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I'm talking US of A players.

Oh...maybe it was the 16,000 previous posts about Minnesota Hockey that threw us off...

 

[brookyone]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Oh...maybe it was the 16,000 previous posts about Minnesota Hockey that threw us off...

If you have a problem with that, it is in fact your problem. I will post about Minnesota hockey as I please. Learn how to utilize that ignore function yet? Or do you just want to keep *****ing like a little ***** when I post? Rhetorical question.

BTW, was somebody talking to you?

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Americans-Canadians

If you have a problem with that, it is in fact your problem. I will post about Minnesota hockey as I please. Learn how to utilize that ignore function yet? Or do you just want to keep *****ing like a little ***** when I post? Rhetorical question.

BTW, was somebody talking to you?

No problem, just pointing out the obvious that other ppl have you figured out Brook. Your just such an easy mark.

BTW, Nope nobodies said a word...but to be truthful, didn't expect a response. Kinda figured out after Ten's of Thousands of posts you probably had them in your back pocket anyway.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Hmm....No but I don't think its that easy. I'm sure that a coach would pick the best player if he or she could see the best players regardless of their domicile compete against each other. This happens in a limited context (i.e. not many girls get this chance) when USA plays Canada in USA Hockey events. There are many thousands of women hockey players. There isn't a coach alive that has the time to scout more than a small fraction of those players. If time is precious and a coach believes that Canada has the best players then the coach will spend most of his or her limited time looking at Canadians. I even think there might be a bias in Canada where I've heard more than a few say the best players are in Toronto and Quebec. If there is a stereotype I don't think its overt discrimination but if there is a bias then due to economics and limited amount of time available to recruit it can be difficult for US girls to overcome the bias.

I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree. We have a saying in Canada " if you are good enough, they will find you." You must rely on this because it is true, and the only way some people can keep their sanity.

 

[D2D]

Re: Americans-Canadians

We have a saying in Canada " if you are good enough, they will find you."

Just want to add here that this saying is not one that's unique to Canada, and it's one that I've never quite bought into 100%. If it was entirely true, why all the talk on this board about which tournaments offer the most exposure, and why do families spend many thousands of dollars to send their kids to elite hockey schools and/or to play on AAA club teams that go to these tournaments, where they are sure to be seen by college coaches?

I realize that in order to improve one's skills it really helps younger players when they play on these teams and in these tournaments against top-notch competition. But it's equally true, I think, that improving one's chances of "getting noticed" also explains why many parents are so eager to spend lots of money to get their daughters in front of college coaches, because they don't necessarily buy into the saying, "if you are good enough, they will find you."

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Just want to add here that this saying is not one that's unique to Canada, and it's one that I've never quite bought into 100%. If it was entirely true, why all the talk on this board about which tournaments offer the most exposure, and why do families spend many thousands of dollars to send their kids to elite hockey schools and/or to play on AAA club teams that go to these tournaments, where they are sure to be seen by college coaches?

I realize that in order to improve one's skills it really helps younger players when they play on these teams and in these tournaments against top-notch competition. But it's equally true, I think, that improving one's chances of "getting noticed" also explains why many parents are so eager to spend lots of money to get their daughters in front of college coaches, because they don't necessarily buy into the saying, "if you are good enough, they will find you."

It's true though, because there is research done long before these tournaments you refer to. If you're on the list, they will check you out there, to see how you have developed. If you're good, word gets around. Some kids even lose scholarships by poor play or attitude in their final year before college. I could go on and on....... And by the way, I'm totally aware that this saying is not unique to Canada, and I kind of figured you would take it that way.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

If you have a problem with that, it is in fact your problem. I will post about Minnesota hockey as I please. Learn how to utilize that ignore function yet? Or do you just want to keep *****ing like a little ***** when I post? Rhetorical question.

BTW, was somebody talking to you?

Hey brooky.... If I could collect all of the stars, from all of your posts, I might be able to create my own Milky Way.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Just want to add here that this saying is not one that's unique to Canada, and it's one that I've never quite bought into 100%. If it was entirely true, why all the talk on this board about which tournaments offer the most exposure, and why do families spend many thousands of dollars to send their kids to elite hockey schools and/or to play on AAA club teams that go to these tournaments, where they are sure to be seen by college coaches?

I realize that in order to improve one's skills it really helps younger players when they play on these teams and in these tournaments against top-notch competition. But it's equally true, I think, that improving one's chances of "getting noticed" also explains why many parents are so eager to spend lots of money to get their daughters in front of college coaches, because they don't necessarily buy into the saying, "if you are good enough, they will find you."

I agree D2D. I don't know about the rest of the country but in Minnesota there is a certain amount of "pay-to-play" mentality. Of course there are the dozen or so players that everyone agrees (maybe not everyone) are the top players but for a substantial number of the rest its about exposure. There is a for profit organization in Minnesota that over the last couple of years has risen to dominate the world of women's hockey and if a player is good (but not in the top ten or so of her class) getting an exposure push from this organization seems to becoming critical to gaining access to elite programs and college hockey. Money, power and influence ... its the American way!

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I agree D2D. I don't know about the rest of the country but in Minnesota there is a certain amount of "pay-to-play" mentality. Of course there are the dozen or so players that everyone agrees (maybe not everyone) are the top players but for a substantial number of the rest its about exposure. There is an organization in Minnesota that over the last couple of years has risen to dominate women's hockey and if a player is good (but not in the top dozen) getting a push from this organization seems to becoming critical to gaining access to elite programs and college hockey. Money, power and influence ... its the American way.

Ya, you are probably right on that, the lower level players on that club might have a clear advantage. We have a few like that here also. But if you compare the Can-Am thing, as far as recruiting talent, I don't think there is much difference.

 

[myStuff]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Sometimes you should let 'foolish posts' lie.

You are talking about your daughter. Of course she was picked for her skills, attitude and academic excellence, for you to think anything but this is virtually impossible.

Using your personal experience as proof of perfectly unbiased recruiting decisions in not relevant.

In no way do I support the original 'foolish' post either.

Your response is pathetic and shallow. My daughter is just 1 of thousands of Canadian girls given the same attention every year. It is inevitable with the enormous enrolment in Canadian hockey that there will always be more talent coming out of the Great White North simply because there are rinks in every village, town and city and multiple levels in hockey programs to accommodate anyone who wants to play and no gender discrimination. Our love of this game is a "Canadian Thing" that is impossible for you to understand.

I expect you to be true to your name

 

[LG4]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I'm talking US of A players.

Even if you talk globally re numbers last year 104 US kids scholarships vs 80Canadian scholarships. Under 60000 registered USA hockey players and throw in the 200 Minnesota girls teams ( assuming they aren't usa hockey registered and you are under the 85000 + canadian girls heck Ontario alone has over 46000 players . Ontario has more scholarships proportional to the amount of Canadian players because of their compettion levels. BTW forget the Quebec bias a whole 5 girls went D1 which is not unlike Conneticut or New York or Wisconsin