Americans-Canadians

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Americans-Canadians

The basketball analogy is flawed. Just because they are African American -- by virtue of the name itself they are Americans, and don't need a Visa to attend college in the US. The argument against having so many foreigners (ie. non US taxpayers) is that the taxpaying public gives BILLIONS of dollars each year to support PUBLIC universities. Then in turn, the universities give out scholarships. And so the taxpayers want there to be more equity. If we (Americans) are paying the taxes, then shouldn't Americans benefit from that?

I am not saying that I necessarily agree, that is just the argument I have heard, particularly about schools like UMD. Minnesotans, who I think everyone would agree, have plenty of good hockey players and so they are especially angered that UMD continues to bring in foreigners from Canada and beyond.

I know you are merely writing what you've heard, but lets take it to the absurd. I pay taxes in Massachusetts (too many I might add) so why let out of state Americans in our Massachusetts public universities or colleges? Imagine if all of the states took that approach when it came to the admission process. This whole argument gives me an ice cream head ache.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I know you are merely writing what you've heard, but lets take it to the absurd. I pay taxes in Massachusetts (too many I might add) so why let out of state Americans in our Massachusetts public universities or colleges? Imagine if all of the states took that approach when it came to the admission process. This whole argument gives me an ice cream head ache.

Even more absurd...have a look at the Chicago Black Hawks or Boston Bruins lineups. Maybe we should be charging an entertainment tax.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Even more absurd...have a look at the Chicago Black Hawks or Boston Bruins lineups. Maybe we should be charging an entertainment tax.

IIRC there is already such a thing as "entertainment" or "playing/working in visiting territory" taxes being paid by clubs on behalf of the players when they visit out of state/out of country arenas to play.

I thought we were moving to a "Global" economy, rather than going back to the olden days of protectionism. UCONN makes a great point. If all students study in their home towns/states, there will be very little cross pollination of cultures/ideas etc etc etc......

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Once again NO MINNESOTA TAX DOLLARS go to athletic scholarships. There is also the snob factor;( and this applies to schools across the country and not just Minnesotians and UMD) a great many people look down upon programs/schools like UMD, Mercyhurst, Niagara, Clarkson, Quinnipiac, Maine, UNH, etc because they don't have the "academic reputation" and cache of your finer/higher ranked institutions.

R U saying Yanks are more snobby than Canucks

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Americans-Canadians

The comments in this thread are so extreme, it is comical.

You say that like it's a bad thing?

Lighten up....we're all just regular people here, just like you! In all seriousness, the hyperbole is often revealing of some interesting perspectives. Some it seems are quite accurate and some may pan out to be misguided, but the cool part of the forum is that we get to see these perspectives with an opportunity to ferret out the facts from the faulty paradigms.

Meanwhile, I firmly disagree with the whole percentage of this group or that group of freshman as an indicator of who should make up some particular sports team. Hoop, hockey, track and field, no matter what the sport, the NCAA has made it clear that it does not serve specifically to benefit and promote United States Athletes, just as academically these schools do not serve only to teach United States Students.

It is interesting how people take issue with subjectivity, yet this is basic humanity at it's finest. It's an imperfect world, and the checks and balances exist only in the long term. There will be deficiencies in short term decision making, which may only correct themselves over a longer term (i.e, a coach who has x number of unsuccessful seasons).

If you want to restrict the number of Canadians playing hockey in United States Colleges, then you should also restrict the number of Asian engineering students, South African medical students, etc. Makes no sense, right?

Oops, guess I was being extreme...comical, eh?

 

[bbtt]

Re: Americans-Canadians

You say that like it's a bad thing?

Lighten up....we're all just regular people here, just like you! In all seriousness, the hyperbole is often revealing of some interesting perspectives. Some it seems are quite accurate and some may pan out to be misguided, but the cool part of the forum is that we get to see these perspectives with an opportunity to ferret out the facts from the faulty paradigms.

Meanwhile, I firmly disagree with the whole percentage of this group or that group of freshman as an indicator of who should make up some particular sports team. Hoop, hockey, track and field, no matter what the sport, the NCAA has made it clear that it does not serve specifically to benefit and promote United States Athletes, just as academically these schools do not serve only to teach United States Students.

It is interesting how people take issue with subjectivity, yet this is basic humanity at it's finest. It's an imperfect world, and the checks and balances exist only in the long term. There will be deficiencies in short term decision making, which may only correct themselves over a longer term (i.e, a coach who has x number of unsuccessful seasons).

If you want to restrict the number of Canadians playing hockey in United States Colleges, then you should also restrict the number of Asian engineering students, South African medical students, etc. Makes no sense, right?

Oops, guess I was being extreme...comical, eh?

Actually, I misused the word thread...I was referring specifically to UCONN Fan's post. He seemed intent on riling up the masses with his generalizations. (The only thing I learned from that was he fires me up!! )

Anyway, since a few days have passed, and hours of reflection later, I have come to the following conclusions.

1) It is a good point regarding the location of Ontario to some of the schools that have a large number of Canadians (and that they could be considered "local").

2) I also misstated the total numbers a bit...I was counting the number of Americans and doing backwards math forgetting that not every team has 25 players. However, the percentages were close. For a look at specific schools, see below (I only focused on the non-WCHA schools because of time).

Team..............# of US Players.....Team Size.....%
Mercyhurst...............8....................22..........36%
Niagara....................9....................27..........33%
Syracuse .................9....................24..........38%
Wayne State............5....................21..........24%
RMU........................8....................23..........35%

Cornell.....................5....................18..........28%
Brown......................8....................21.........38%
Clarkson...................5....................21.........24%
Colgate...................10....................21.........48%

I don't know what the right number should be but in order for cross-pollination (sharing) to occur, you need both transferers and transferees.

Regarding the percentages, I did stop counting once I got to 10 Americans, but there were quite a few with 11 & 12.

If you want to restrict the number of Canadians playing hockey in United States Colleges, then you should also restrict the number of Asian engineering students, South African medical students, etc. Makes no sense, right?

Oops, guess I was being extreme...comical, eh?

Are they paying for it? Or are there doctor scholarships that I am not aware of?

 

[Toothlessinduluth]

Re: Americans-Canadians

If UMD didn't win, no one would care.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

If UMD didn't win, no one would care.

I think your argument has no teeth Toothless. You're way offside.

 

[LG4]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Actually, I misused the word thread...I was referring specifically to UCONN Fan's post. He seemed intent on riling up the masses with his generalizations. (The only thing I learned from that was he fires me up!! )

Anyway, since a few days have passed, and hours of reflection later, I have come to the following conclusions.

1) It is a good point regarding the location of Ontario to some of the schools that have a large number of Canadians (and that they could be considered "local").

2) I also misstated the total numbers a bit...I was counting the number of Americans and doing backwards math forgetting that not every team has 25 players. However, the percentages were close. For a look at specific schools, see below (I only focused on the non-WCHA schools because of time).

Team..............# of US Players.....Team Size.....%
Mercyhurst...............8....................22..........36%
Niagara....................9....................27..........33%
Syracuse .................9....................24..........38%
Wayne State............5....................21..........24%
RMU........................8....................23..........35%

Cornell.....................5....................18..........28%
Brown......................8....................21.........38%
Clarkson...................5....................21.........24%
Colgate...................10....................21.........48%

I don't know what the right number should be but in order for cross-pollination (sharing) to occur, you need both transferers and transferees.

Regarding the percentages, I did stop counting once I got to 10 Americans, but there were quite a few with 11 & 12.



Are they paying for it? Or are there doctor scholarships that I am not aware of?

Do some schools not give merit based academic scholarships?
Just curious can you give us an idea re the winning percentages as well . The names Mercyhurst and Cornell pop out at me for some reason. Is 8 schools really statistically significant as a sample?

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Actually, I misused the word thread...I was referring specifically to UCONN Fan's post. He seemed intent on riling up the masses with his generalizations. (The only thing I learned from that was he fires me up!! )

Anyway, since a few days have passed, and hours of reflection later, I have come to the following conclusions.

1) It is a good point regarding the location of Ontario to some of the schools that have a large number of Canadians (and that they could be considered "local").

2) I also misstated the total numbers a bit...I was counting the number of Americans and doing backwards math forgetting that not every team has 25 players. However, the percentages were close. For a look at specific schools, see below (I only focused on the non-WCHA schools because of time).

Team..............# of US Players.....Team Size.....%
Mercyhurst...............8....................22..........36%
Niagara....................9....................27..........33%
Syracuse .................9....................24..........38%
Wayne State............5....................21..........24%
RMU........................8....................23..........35%

Cornell.....................5....................18..........28%
Brown......................8....................21.........38%
Clarkson...................5....................21.........24%
Colgate...................10....................21.........48%

I don't know what the right number should be but in order for cross-pollination (sharing) to occur, you need both transferers and transferees.

Regarding the percentages, I did stop counting once I got to 10 Americans, but there were quite a few with 11 & 12.



Are they paying for it? Or are there doctor scholarships that I am not aware of?

Where I come from it's very difficult to get into medical school. It's still taking up a spot isn't it?

 

[live4hockey]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Do some schools not give merit based academic scholarships?
Just curious can you give us an idea re the winning percentages as well . The names Mercyhurst and Cornell pop out at me for some reason. Is 8 schools really statistically significant as a sample?

Ivy leagues do not give merit based academic scholarships, only financial need based aid.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Where I come from it's very difficult to get into medical school. It's still taking up a spot isn't it?

Is it "taking up a spot"? Or is it offering a spot to the individual best prepared to make the most of the opportunity being offered?

I am guessing that every college and university in the United States would welcome any foreign student with open arms, particularly if said student seems to have the potential to become a boastworthy and honorable graduate.

Raising the bar is what it's all about in the academic world. Why shouldn't it be the same athletically?

What, we're "entitled" because we're Americans and we pay taxes? Uhh, no, we pay taxes because we're Americans, and that's about all we're entitled to. You have to earn the rest, whether it means competing locally, nationally or even internationally. What's wrong with that?

The catch phrase around our house has always been "If it was easy, anyone could do it". It shouldn't be easy. And if you are successful, it should be because you worked hard to earn it. And if you work hard and earn it, it should be special...because...not anyone could do it!

Fricken liberals and socialists really kill me.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: Americans-Canadians

I am guessing that every college and university in the United States would welcome any foreign student with open arms, particularly if said student seems to have the potential to become a boastworthy and honorable graduate.

Try "financially-generous alumni donor."

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Try "financially-generous alumni donor."

How do I argue with sound logic? Yes, that too! LOL

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Is it "taking up a spot"? Or is it offering a spot to the individual best prepared to make the most of the opportunity being offered?

I am guessing that every college and university in the United States would welcome any foreign student with open arms, particularly if said student seems to have the potential to become a boastworthy and honorable graduate.

Raising the bar is what it's all about in the academic world. Why shouldn't it be the same athletically?

What, we're "entitled" because we're Americans and we pay taxes? Uhh, no, we pay taxes because we're Americans, and that's about all we're entitled to. You have to earn the rest, whether it means competing locally, nationally or even internationally. What's wrong with that?

The catch phrase around our house has always been "If it was easy, anyone could do it". It shouldn't be easy. And if you are successful, it should be because you worked hard to earn it. And if you work hard and earn it, it should be special...because...not anyone could do it!

Fricken liberals and socialists really kill me.

Ice, that is exactly what I was saying only mine was the short version.

 

[Hux]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Try "financially-generous alumni donor."

Hmmmmmmm, that Raty kid looked like she had deep pocket in her glove.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Uhh, no, we pay taxes because we're Americans, and that's about all we're entitled to.

Entitlement in a whole new light. Gotta love it...

Post and quote of the day.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Is 8 schools really statistically significant as a sample?

The way I read the post, the poster only listed the Non-WCHA schools with 10 or less Americans on their roster. From that you can deduct that all the other NON-WCHA schools (33-8-8=17 schools) carry 11 or more Americans. That means 1/3 (8/25) of the Non-WCHA schools carry 10 or less Americans, and 2/3 (17/25) carry 11 or more. BC might very well be at 100% Americans as they don't take any Canucks.

IIRC overall about 40% of the NCAA D1 players are canucks, and another 2-3% international, meaning about 55% are Americans. This means on a bell curve, the percentage of Americans on each team will range from about 30% to about 80%.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Americans-Canadians

Here's an idea....how about if the American Colleges stop filling their rosters with Canadian Carpetbaggers...for non-revenue sports like women's hockey in particular?

Is there something so wrong with Canadian Universities that the Canadians don't want to attend and play hockey there? [sorta like Canadians want to come to the States for medical care rather than wait for months for the free stuff in Canada?]

Thoughts?

TO bbtt:
This is the post I have been refering to all along.

You said in an earlier post:

I have never read a single thread that said there should be no Canadians playing in the US for D1 schools.

[/B] Well here it is!

(Again, the extremism is laughable.)

Not so extreme I guess.
Simply stated I think it is a ridiculous post! If that makes you crazy then so be it.

 

[live4hockey]

Re: Americans-Canadians

UCONN FAN: Why do you hate Colie Campbell? I agree about getting rid of Bettman. No non-athlete should be allowed to run any professional league. He looks ridiculous when he goes onthe ice. Colin Campbell though I have the upmost respect for -- he at least played the game and has brought the game to new better levels with the new rules, along with the head of refs. Some of the referees are getting too old and should retire but I suspect that would be discriminatory.