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Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

dave1381 said:
Well 2 hours for the committee to decide. My read on the data is that BU is the clear 3, UMD is the clear 7, and I think you can find a rationalization for any order of teams between 4 through 6.

Ranking the teams 4 through 6 is a tougher call. The committee could look at that BC-Minnesota comparison either way, and past precedent seems to suggest they'd favor BC since the RPIs are so close. I think the Minnesota-Mercyhurst comparison is clearly in Minnesota's favor because Minnesota truly has the best results against common opponents. And I think Mercyhurst clearly takes the comparison against BC because of the RPI and common opponents (BC was worse against Maine & SLU).

In such a three-way tie, you sometimes you might just look at the RPI and let Mercyhurst host, and then you go Mercyhurst 4, Minnesota 5, BC 6. And usually RPI is considered the tiebreaker.

But again the RPIs are really close, and the committee could look at the results against the RPI top 12 as being the biggest difference. If that's the case they could go BC 4, Minnesota 5, and Mercyhurst 6.

You might complain that BC has a better record vs. RPI top 12 because they played weaker opponents. The committee will not view it that way. They'll see that BC went 2-2 against the No. 3 team, 1-0 against the No. 8 team, and 5-1-1 against the 10-12 teams. Minnesota went 1-3-1 against the No. 1 team, 2-2-1 against the No. 7 team, and 1-3-1 against the No. 9 team. Big advantage BC.

That bracket would give us:
Dartmouth at (1) Wisconsin
Minnesota at (4) BC

UMD at (2) Cornell
Mercyhurst at (3) BU

I think that one would have a lot of appeal to the committee.
Click to expand...

I think this posts pretty much nails how the NCAA ranked the teams, though of course it misses that the NCAA failed to pony up the cash to send UMD to Cornell and Dartmouth to Wisconsin.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

dave1381 said:
I wouldn't see them sending Dartmouth to Cornell and UMD to Wisconsin to save travel costs though. The committee in the past hasn't been willing to make that great a compromise on bracket integrity.
Click to expand...

And here is where I was terribly wrong!!!
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Palaeopitus said:
How has the committee screwed up, let me count the ways...failure to reward the #1 team, rematch of ECAC final (4th time they've played), very little diversity in quarterfinal matchups...what else?
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I think to say that there is very little diversity in the quarters is a bit much. It's unfortunate that the ECAC and WCHA are rehashing old business, but that's 50% of the match ups. BC v Minny and BU v Mercy is the other 50%, and are going to be true contests for both teams. (and a lot of fun for us East Coasters)

It's too bad Cornell v UMD and Wisco v Dartmouth didn't happen, but they got it half right.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Yes -- but money seems to be the only reason why it didn't happen. I don't think it's right. I bet those four teams are significantly less excited. Work all year to make the NCAA tournament and then play another league game. No diversity AND no bracket integrity. It's one thing if you sacrifice matchups for bracket integrity.....but neither one explains those two matchups. Geez -- Dartmouth played Cornell in Ithaca 24 hours ago.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Palaeopitus said:
As a Dartmouth fan, I would rather see our team play top-ranked Wisconsin rather than Cornell a fourth time for travel considerations. I realize there's a greater likelihood of getting pummeled, but so be it. I don't want to watch an ECAC play-in game.
Click to expand...

So Darty will get the chance to do something no one else this year may be able to do. Beat Cornell twice. (off course MC could pull off the same feat down the road).
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Brian Gentry said:
SIMPLE MATH .... oh wait......:)
Click to expand...
It's more like math for the simple. :p But the brackets are what they are; I hope we have a great tourney in spite of the committee's goofs.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

My late grandfather would have dollar signs in his eyes with all the tooth-gnashing going on around here...

(He was a dentist.)

Still, I don't blame anyone for not being happy with this bracket. I remember how ticked off I was when the Gophers and Badgers ended up playing a 2008 NCAA quarterfinal, right after facing each other in the WCHA semis.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

JosephPSchmoe said:
I stand with my observation from yesterday.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

We've never been able to predict when the NCAA would pony up the cash or not. They're not obligated to, aside from assuring the top 4 seeds don't play each other. I'm sure their view is that as a non-revenue sport, women's hockey has been spoiled so far and treated almost as if they were an 8-team seeded bracket when the committee is under no obligation to assure 8-team bracket integrity.

What's funny is the committee in 2008 absolutely assured everyone that the Wisconsin-Minnesota and Harvard-Dartmouth quarterfinals were due to bracket integrity -- not travel costs. Then this must be the first time the NCAA has ever violated bracket integrity principles purely for travel reasons, because there's absolutely no case for Dartmouth over UMD.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

There simply is no integrity in this bracket. The east coast teams lose mulitple games to extremly weak teams and they are rewarded with not only more team in the pool, but they host 75% of the games. Can anyone honestly say they think BU or BC are the 3rd and 4th best teams right now. I think Minnesota is thrilled to be playing BC anywhere, in fact Minny will likely have more fans than BC based on attendance records to date. UDM is the team that got screwed the worst having to play UW on the road and Cornell get the easiest possible path they could have hoped for. They will likely get to sit back and watch UDM and Minny beat of UW twice more. It really is sad.

Who is on this committee, does anyone know?
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

granddaddyscout said:
There simply is no integrity in this bracket. The east coast teams lose mulitple games to extremly weak teams and they are rewarded with not only more team in the pool, but they host 75% of the games. Can anyone honestly say they think BU or BC are the 3rd and 4th best teams right now. I think Minnesota is thrilled to be playing BC anywhere, in fact Minny will likely have more fans than BC based on attendance records to date. UDM is the team that got screwed the worst having to play UW on the road and Cornell get the easiest possible path they could have hoped for. They will likely get to sit back and watch UDM and Minny beat of UW twice more. It really is sad.
Who is on this committee, does anyone know?
Click to expand...

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/ice_hockey/2011/11_nc_w_icehockey.pdf

Nate Handrahan, Roberts Morris University
Megan McHugo, Ivy Group
Shannon Miller, University of Minnesota Duluth
Chris Schneider, The Ohio State University, chair
Click to expand...

Clearly the ECAC and Hockey East are horribly overrepresented on this committee, and the WCHA underrepresented. Clearly this explains the conspiracy. :P

I don't agree BU is No. 3 and BC is No. 4, but if I had the same criteria as the committee, I agree that it's a perfectly reasonable outcome. I agree that criteria are deeply flawed and do not adequately adjust for schedule strength.

I also believe that a division I bracket with this few teams needs to seed its whole bracket, or at least create rules preventing a swap like this UMD-Dartmouth swap from happening when UMD is miles apart from Dartmouth in all criteria.
 
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Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

granddaddyscout said:
There simply is no integrity in this bracket. The east coast teams lose mulitple games to extremly weak teams and they are rewarded with not only more team in the pool, but they host 75% of the games. Can anyone honestly say they think BU or BC are the 3rd and 4th best teams right now. I think Minnesota is thrilled to be playing BC anywhere, in fact Minny will likely have more fans than BC based on attendance records to date. UDM is the team that got screwed the worst having to play UW on the road and Cornell get the easiest possible path they could have hoped for. They will likely get to sit back and watch UDM and Minny beat of UW twice more. It really is sad.

Who is on this committee, does anyone know?
Click to expand...

I follow your thinking but this may not be as bad as it seems at first blush for UMD. I'm sure UW would much rather be playing Dartmouth than UMD even if the game is in Madison. After all, how many teams have shown that they can actually beat UW this year? The answer, as I recall, is 2...UMD and UM...there's that big 3 again.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Blackbeard said:
I follow your thinking but this may not be as bad as it seems at first blush for UMD. I'm sure UW would much rather be playing Dartmouth than UMD even if the game is in Madison. After all, how many teams have shown that they can actually beat UW this year? The answer, as I recall, is 2...UMD and UM...there's that big 3 again.
Click to expand...

The thing I find ironic is that if this was all set out to avoid air travel, does that mean UMD gets stuck with a 6.5 hour bus ride to Madison instead of a 2.5 hour flight to NY? If they get on a plane to Madison to avoid the bus ride, doesn't that negate the entire point of the travel consideration in the first place? If I were UMD I would rather go to NY and play a #2 seed, that based on their strength of schedule, UMD probably thought they had a real good chance of knocking off.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Blackbeard said:
I follow your thinking but this may not be as bad as it seems at first blush for UMD. I'm sure UW would much rather be playing Dartmouth than UMD even if the game is in Madison. After all, how many teams have shown that they can actually beat UW this year? The answer, as I recall, is 2...UMD and UM...there's that big 3 again.
Click to expand...

But unlike teams from the east they get several shots at it. Four each to be exact. (A bit TIC, but the law of averages does come into play here)
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Palaeopitus said:
Yes -- but money seems to be the only reason why it didn't happen. I don't think it's right. I bet those four teams are significantly less excited. Work all year to make the NCAA tournament and then play another league game. No diversity AND no bracket integrity. It's one thing if you sacrifice matchups for bracket integrity.....but neither one explains those two matchups. Geez -- Dartmouth played Cornell in Ithaca 24 hours ago.
Click to expand...

As a Darty fan you should be happy. Their shot at beating the Big Red is probably much higher than their chance of beating that other Red Machine.
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

I willed this to happen, beginning on February 8th.........

IceIsNice said:
So, how solid a #3 are they after losing to BC tonight?

I can't lie.... the scenario of BU #4 and Hurst #5 means I save a ton of $$$$$$.

:D
Click to expand...
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Crazy....but all worked the way I originally thought it would. All is right in the world...now to refocus Committee on fixing that fundamentalist Muslim thing.......
 
Re: Alright....so how do NCAA invitations shake out?

Just joking...(wonder how many fundamentalist Muslims playing hockey & considered politically incorrect?)
 
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