Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

[Matthew Webb]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Short answer: Win a tournament game.

Considering the wave of emotions that somehow pollute this topic...I'm not even sure that would be enough.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

How about if that first game is a quarterfinal game and they end up in the National Semifinal?

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

What does Adrian have to do to convince the naysayers? Given that the MCHA will still be considered weak, winning the AQ obviously won't be sufficient (and rightly so). Will winning a single game in the tournament be good enough? Would losing a close first-round game on the road against the top-seeded team be good enough?

All the above and being consistent with it year after year. I don't think anyone in the Adrian program wants to be a one hit wonder, they want to be known as a respectable program year in year out. Teams like Curry, Lebanon Valley, and Wentworth all went through the growing pains of having a great record/high point leaders that made their fans feel they were the next coming of God. HOWEVER, ADRIAN IS NOT those teams. They are a much higher calibar then any one of those in their early existence, but what is enough? Enough to what? Are you wanting the "naysayers" to put Adrian in the same breath of a SNC, Middlebury, Norwich, Plattsburgh? Putting Adrian as the top or one of the top teams in the West? Putting Adrian as the top or one of the top in the Nation??

Adrian will be very dangerous this year for several reasons:

1) The finally "could" have the chance to prove themselves, they still have to win the conference.
2) There is a very good chance the team they end up playing will be seeing Adrian live for the first time, and if they have the "oh it's just Adrian" mindset could be golfing early.
3) It's the playoffs, anything can happen
4) Yes, they (Adrian) are good

As I was discussing with a fellow poster a few weeks ago in regards to the Adrian/Oswego matchup, anyone who says this isn't a HUGE game for Adrian is lying out their teeth. They've waited 3 years now to make a HUGE statement against a perennial powerhouse (and I am sorry Neumann fans, but you are not a powerhouse).

"Its a meaningless game" - Maybe for the polls, but as I said Adrian has been waiting for 3 years to prove they belong, and no that doesn't mean I am saying they (Adrian) don't believe that they don't belong. Adrian may not come out and say it, but you would have to believe that these types of games have a championship type feel to it. On the flip side, I think it will be a lot harder for Oswego to "get up" for a game against a (and dont flip out BullDog fans) "newbie". Adrian has no history and really no rivalry with the Lakers on the ice, so what does Oswego have to gain. Tradition vs Recognition.

The game reminds me of the last OSU/RIT matchup in their transition year. RIT had nothing to gain, and OSU had nothing to lose but to make a statement. What happened? OSU came out and beat the Tigers 4-2.

Some people will use it as an excuse if Adrian wins, some people will make another excuse if Adrian loses.

Fact of the matter is, until the MCHA gets to be a "respectable" conference (which with the AQ will come in time) you will always have naysayers no matter how many Championships Adrian comes away with. IF the top NCHA/MIAC and Adrian can't work out schedules to where Adrian gets the opportunity to play the perennials on a consistent basis, there will always be naysayers.

All I know is I am glad Oswego is on break that week so tickets won't be an issue for a should be great game.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

I think you'll see a lot of the talk settle down if Adrian goes and wins a first round game this year and plays respectably well in a 2nd tournament game, with the understanding that they go a little further next season, when a good chunk of this team would be seniors. I'm not going to speculate further than two years away, as it's dangerous enough to be talking about next season before this one is roughly 10 days old.

As a matter of fact, outside of this thread (where this chatter certainly belongs), and for a while on the Oswego thread, there really hasn't been much Adrian talk that I have noticed, one way or the other. I suspected this would be the case once the MCHA got the AQ. I guess you could say that things might have started to settle already (at least I hope).

 

[zamboney]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

So here's the question I've been mulling over. What does Adrian have to do to convince the naysayers?

What "naysayers" might you be referring to? Please post a recent example of "nay saying" . I cannot remember a post since the end of the season or at least the granting of the AQ that has disparaged or denigrated Adrian. If by naysayers you mean those of us that are not willing to start engraving the Dlll Championship with Adrians name I will grant you there are a few.
It is generally acknowledged they are a good team. Seemingly since the AQ there seems to be a consensus that time will tell, they have a shot and it will be fun to see what they can do. You have not been on here in months ( "mulling" I would imagine...time consuming ) and come back with an uninformed provocative post. Frankly after all the past hyperbole from devoted Bulldog fans anything short of a National Championship would be...interesting

 

[BulldogProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

All the above and being consistent with it year after year.... but what is enough? Enough to what? Are you wanting the "naysayers" to put Adrian in the same breath of a SNC, Middlebury, Norwich, Plattsburgh? Putting Adrian as the top or one of the top teams in the West? Putting Adrian as the top or one of the top in the Nation??

Thanks. I probably wasn't clear enough (as zamboney's pointlessly negative response seems to indicate--really, I wasn't trying to be provocative, and I regret that he took it that way). I was referring to those who argued that due to the weakness of the MCHA, Adrian was at best a middling team that absolutely didn't deserve a tournament slot.

In the absence of games against top level competition, I couldn't say those folks were wrong. And I think if the Bulldogs win the AQ but get thumped in the first round, those who dismissed them will, quite reasonably, feel vindicated in their judgment. But what would persuade them to say, "OK, I guess Adrian is a legitimate tournament team"?

Now, what would it take to be mentioned in the same breath as those other teams? I'm not crazy enough to think that anything they do this year will get them there. As you say, "consistent year after year."

Thanks to you and Hammer for thoughtful responses. Would that all others could do the same.

 

[BulldogProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Oh, and...

anyone who says this isn't a HUGE game for Adrian is lying out their teeth. They've waited 3 years now to make a HUGE statement against a perennial powerhouse ...
"Its a meaningless game" - Maybe for the polls, but as I said Adrian has been waiting for 3 years to prove they belong, and no that doesn't mean I am saying they (Adrian) don't believe that they don't belong. Adrian may not come out and say it, but you would have to believe that these types of games have a championship type feel to it. On the flip side, I think it will be a lot harder for Oswego to "get up" for a game against a (and dont flip out BullDog fans) "newbie". Adrian has no history and really no rivalry with the Lakers on the ice, so what does Oswego have to gain. Tradition vs Recognition.

I fully agree. It's a huge game for us--what we've been begging for all along. Now we'll find out if it's a case of "be careful what you wish for." If you do make it to the game, please give us a full report, whatever the outcome.

 

[zamboney]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Originally posted by Bulldog Prof . Thanks to you and Hammer for thoughtful responses. Would that all others could do the same.

Ah indeed. Would that we were all as thoughtful in our responses as PSU Champs and Hammer. I will mull it over.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Thanks for the update from the U18 game. I wasn't able to make it, unfortunately, but am looking forward to the opening weekend.

So here's the question I've been mulling over. What does Adrian have to do to convince the naysayers? Given that the MCHA will still be considered weak, winning the AQ obviously won't be sufficient (and rightly so). Will winning a single game in the tournament be good enough? Would losing a close first-round game on the road against the top-seeded team be good enough?

A National Championship would shut some of them up, but some of them will start looking for other things to poke holes in them with.

 

[zamboney]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

A National Championship would shut some of them up, but some of them will start looking for other things to poke holes in them with.

I disagree. A National Championship would do it. Point final. A veteran team, good coach, seemingly good recruits. I will be very surprised if they are not in the Final Four. My feeling is they should take it all. It just remains to be done.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Thanks. I probably wasn't clear enough (as zamboney's pointlessly negative response seems to indicate--really, I wasn't trying to be provocative, and I regret that he took it that way). I was referring to those who argued that due to the weakness of the MCHA, Adrian was at best a middling team that absolutely didn't deserve a tournament slot.

In the absence of games against top level competition, I couldn't say those folks were wrong. And I think if the Bulldogs win the AQ but get thumped in the first round, those who dismissed them will, quite reasonably, feel vindicated in their judgment. But what would persuade them to say, "OK, I guess Adrian is a legitimate tournament team"?

Now, what would it take to be mentioned in the same breath as those other teams? I'm not crazy enough to think that anything they do this year will get them there. As you say, "consistent year after year."

Thanks to you and Hammer for thoughtful responses. Would that all others could do the same.

The problem is some Adrian fans came on here and felt it was a divine right for Adrian to be take a pool bid away just because of their record alone. (Don't jump me NL) And was calling a system that has been in place for some time now a complete farce (okay okay it really is but..). The point some of us long timers were trying to get across is that you can't just award someone a bid (and take it away from someone who has proven themselves against "competition").

For the first two years they have ultimately split with both Potsdam and Neumann

Potsdam finished 4th and 5th in the final SUNYAC standings those years
Neumann finished Tied for 4th and 4th in the final ECAC West standings those years

In all honesty, up to this point Adrian has yet to really do anything. Most of the naysayers as zamboney pointed out, several Adrian followers wanted the rest of the DIII world to bow down to Adrian and start shinning their trophy up for them. When they were met with resistance it became a "conspiracy" as to teams not wanting Adrian, being afraid of Adrian, then you have Mitch Albom who doesn't have a flying clue about college hockey, let alone Division III put Adrian on a national pitty fest.

Again to not start a pitty fest so NL doesn't raise the blood pressure, but Adrian came into a bad situation that has now got much better. What they do with it is now in their hands. I don't forsee them getting out of the first round, but I do think whomever they face will not be resting their top line come the third period like some still think (unless they somehow become disciplined )

 

[NorthernLite]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Thanks for the update from the U18 game. I wasn't able to make it, unfortunately, but am looking forward to the opening weekend.

So here's the question I've been mulling over. What does Adrian have to do to convince the naysayers? Given that the MCHA will still be considered weak, winning the AQ obviously won't be sufficient (and rightly so). Will winning a single game in the tournament be good enough? Would losing a close first-round game on the road against the top-seeded team be good enough?

I believe the program has earned respect from their record to date, and most DIII followers might agree that Adrian would compete very well with "the best".

Adrian's "naysayers" are gone.
They disappeared along with the many discussions on at large bids. The arguments then, weren't about whether Adrian was good enough, but rather whether they were deserving enough. The issues were more about the conference, than about the team.

Going forward, Adrian will be judged on their wins and losses. Those who get to watch them play, will have more to go on in support of their opinions.

For the followers in the East, our visit to Oswego will be greatly anticipated and the result will be significant. It will be a new measure of how good we are to some ........or how bad we are to others.

For those in the West N/C games vs. MIAC opponents will be of great interest.

As for the how we stack up against the NCHA.....nothing scheduled.....yet


Winning will usually keep the "naysayers" at bay.

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

well just compare the results against the U-18 team from both oswego last yr and Adrian, looks famliar??? ..who knows but I tell ya it will b fun to watch the game at the CC, just sucks that the students will b away at the time ..As a Oswego fan Im a little nervous, as we have many,14, newbies.......good luck to all

 

[zamboney]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Adrian's "naysayers" are gone.

Thank you for informing Bulldog Prof ( in more diplomatic terms than I ever could ) that his mulling was all for naught.

 

[Hammer]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Now that this is done I'm going to go mull over some chicken fajitas.

 

[BulldogProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

The problem is some Adrian fans came on here and felt it was a divine right for Adrian to be take a pool bid away just because of their record alone. ... The point some of us long timers were trying to get across is that you can't just award someone a bid (and take it away from someone who has proven themselves against "competition").
...
In all honesty, up to this point Adrian has yet to really do anything.

Although I obviously didn't make myself clear, that was really kind of my point. Perhaps I shouldn't have phrased it so that I didn't appear to be putting the onus on the naysayers, but should have said, "Now that they have the autobid, what level of achievement is it Adrian's responsibility to reach in order to earn respect that they're worthy of being in the tournament? (With the assumption that merely winning the MCHA doesn't necessarily mean they're really tournament quality.)

 

[BulldogProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

Adrian's "naysayers" are gone.
They disappeared along with the many discussions on at large bids. The arguments then, weren't about whether Adrian was good enough, but rather whether they were deserving enough. The issues were more about the conference, than about the team.

I hear you. But I'm more pessimistic about whether the naysayers are gone, in part because the questions about the conference aren't really gone, right?
Maybe you, PSU, and Zamboney are all correct. But I suspect with the autobid they'll be quiet this year and just let it play out, since the at-large probably won't be an issue. But if Adrian gets the autobid, then takes a 5 goal loss in the first round, don't you think the naysayers would be right back with "I told you so?" (And wouldn't it be justified?)

Hence, my question.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

I hear you. But I'm more pessimistic about whether the naysayers are gone, in part because the questions about the conference aren't really gone, right?
Maybe you, PSU, and Zamboney are all correct. But I suspect with the autobid they'll be quiet this year and just let it play out, since the at-large probably won't be an issue. But if Adrian gets the autobid, then takes a 5 goal loss in the first round, don't you think the naysayers would be right back with "I told you so?" (And wouldn't it be justified?)

Hence, my question.

This is again all about the league, not the team. In the East, there was a huge amount of skepticism about the ECAC NE when they first got an autobid. The general sentiment was "you've got to be kidding, that takes away a slot that could go to a more deserving team." Once they actually won a game in the NCAAs, that issue went away. In the East, we will see a similar (albeit different) situation when the MASCAC gains their autobid, thus essentially giving the ECAC NE as second autobid.

If Adrian wins the MCHA and is competitive in their first round game (most likely against an Eastern team due to the geography and the 500 mile rule), the situation will change. In other words, my answer is that Adrian (or MSOE or whoever) can legitimize the Autobid by playing well in the tournament. No more, no less.

 

[NorthernLite]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

But if Adrian gets the autobid, then takes a 5 goal loss in the first round, don't you think the naysayers would be right back with "I told you so?" (And wouldn't it be justified?)

Any team that is embarrased in a tournament loss will bring out the critics....and even more so if a low seed eliminates a high seed.

If Adrian gets the opportunity to participate in the tournament,the game will be of great interest to the many who have followed the last two years.
If "I told you so" ...rings out from the result.....it wouldn't be justified any more from the "naysayers" .....than from "friends of the program" ! One game win or lose won't define Adrian.

Their rise to their current ranking in the USCHO poll , does affirm the respect they've earned from DIII followers.


....have a look at what Russell Jaslow wrote in his SUNYAC Season Preview column on the subject of Oswego' s season.

Mark Your Calendar Game: Jan. 8 versus Adrian.

If there was national TV coverage of Division III hockey, this would be one of the highest rated games in history. Everybody in D-III, both east and west, have been talking about this game since it was first announced.

...kind of a neat statement as to the impact this team has had in it's relatively short existence.

......Park your Pessimism Prof.....enjoy the season !

 

[BulldogProf]

Re: Adrian Hockey 2009-10: A New Hope

......Park your Pessimism Prof.....enjoy the season !

I fully anticipate enjoying the season, from what I believe is the best seat in Arrington Arena. But I grew up as a Cubs fan, so doubt springs eternal...