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2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

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Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Politicians lie to get elected. There's a shocker.
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What's really shocking is how behind the times he is with reporting this news. Obama and marriage flip flopping/any lgbt issue has been well known for longer than his presidency.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
So we're just supposed to assume that Republicans are included in your previous statement, despite the fact you only called out Dems? Based on your posting history, that seems unlikely. :)
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Actually based on my posting history, you'd know I call out the Republicans a good deal also. Neither party is great shakes. But the Dems' conveniently timed flip-flop on gay marriage, en masse, is the most obvious party wide flip flop on an issue for political gain I can recall.
 
Bob Gray said:
Actually based on my posting history, you'd know I call out the Republicans a good deal also. Neither party is great shakes. But the Dems' conveniently timed flip-flop on gay marriage, en masse, is the most obvious party wide flip flop on an issue for political gain I can recall.
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I want to see the War Hawks actually vote for war. Put up our shut up. But before they do, I want the smell of rotting and burning flesh from the Middle East released on the floor of Congress so our political masters know EXACTLY what they're voting for.

I hope the War Powers action dies on the floor.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Bob Gray said:
Actually based on my posting history, you'd know I call out the Republicans a good deal also. Neither party is great shakes. But the Dems' conveniently timed flip-flop on gay marriage, en masse, is the most obvious party wide flip flop on an issue for political gain I can recall.
Click to expand...

"We have a surplus: we must cut taxes!"

"Oops, that's a deficit: we must cut taxes!"
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Bob Gray said:
Actually based on my posting history, you'd know I call out the Republicans a good deal also. Neither party is great shakes. But the Dems' conveniently timed flip-flop on gay marriage, en masse, is the most obvious party wide flip flop on an issue for political gain I can recall.
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Uhhh, Beavis. The whole nation has flipped flopped on gay marriage just like they did interracial marriage. Now it's just the holdouts who will be remembered as bigots in the history books.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

To the contrary, I don't think most of the country has done a full 180 on gay marriage. I just think it's one of those issues that a simple majority of us have decided doesn't affect us personally and is a waste of time to debate, so therefore, "Let 'em have marriage, and everything that comes with it." We're starting to witness this same effect with pot as well.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
To the contrary, I don't think most of the country has done a full 180 on gay marriage. I just think it's one of those issues that a simple majority of us have decided doesn't affect us personally and is a waste of time to debate, so therefore, "Let 'em have marriage, and everything that comes with it." We're starting to witness this same effect with pot as well.
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Yes and no. The idea of gay anything 20 years ago was verboten. A Democratic President had just issued "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" for the military and the same president would support DOMA. Since then two major things have happened. 1) People have become better educated on the matter and become more tolerant - even accepting. 2) The most diehard opponents to gay marriage (gay anything) have died off, replaced by people who are either more tolerant or who take the "it doesn't effect me" point of view.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
To the contrary, I don't think most of the country has done a full 180 on gay marriage.
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Really? Just 29 years ago the Supreme Court said laws criminalizing sodomy were ok. Just 15 years ago 40 states and the federal government had either statutory or constitutional prohibitions on it. Just 5 years ago the majority of Americans were still against it.

You don't think there has been a massive swing in public opinion over gay rights generally? Really?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

Yeah, I don't know how you could argue otherwise. I'm willing to bet it's massively indifferent/in favor from the under 30 crowd and within two decades will become a majority opinion.
 
unofan said:
Really? Just 29 years ago the Supreme Court said laws criminalizing sodomy were ok. Just 15 years ago 40 states and the federal government had either statutory or constitutional prohibitions on it. Just 5 years ago the majority of Americans were still against it.

You don't think there has been a massive swing in public opinion over gay rights generally? Really?
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I would think that there has been a massive swing in the judiciary.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

unofan said:
Really? Just 29 years ago the Supreme Court said laws criminalizing sodomy were ok. Just 15 years ago 40 states and the federal government had either statutory or constitutional prohibitions on it. Just 5 years ago the majority of Americans were still against it.

You don't think there has been a massive swing in public opinion over gay rights generally? Really?
Click to expand...

Settle down, Sparky. I'm on your side.

No, I don't think it's that massive of a swing yet. I often talk to people who, despite being publicly OK with gay marriage, still privately think two men passionately kissing is "weird". I merely attribute this to open homosexuality being new and unfamiliar to many. Give it 20 years, and very few people are going to think twice about it.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part IX - How Lame is my Duck

unofan said:
Really? Just 29 years ago the Supreme Court said laws criminalizing sodomy were ok. Just 15 years ago 40 states and the federal government had either statutory or constitutional prohibitions on it. Just 5 years ago the majority of Americans were still against it.

You don't think there has been a massive swing in public opinion over gay rights generally? Really?
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Denial, denial, denial. "The country was never really against it in the first place." "People aren't really for it now, they're just apathetic about it now."

Expect to hear lots of that garbage from the bigots who lost the fight.

Personally, I'm honestly not sure how I would have answered had somebody asked me in 1990 how I felt about gay marriage. Growing up in East Tennessee, it just wasn't even a question that was ever asked. You might as well have asked about people living on Jupiter - there was no reason to have an opinion on it, since it was never going to happen. Then I moved to Ithaca, and quite immediately met many great gay people (including my freshman year Resident Adviser) and it's never been an issue for me since. I think it's fair to say that my opinion did flip-flop, but at least I can say with a clear conscience that I made the right choice the first time it was explicitly presented to me.
 
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