What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Status
Not open for further replies.
geezer said:
Everyone now realizes that Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster that will have to be undone somehow before we can start making improvements in healthcare delivery. HOWEVER, it's also clear that trying to defund it in the house is a failed strategy as well. Even if it were defunded, Obama's clear preference is to jam it in the back door by any means necessary, regardless of how comfortable that is for his victims. He would probably get all excited if it WERE defunded, because that would give him the perfect excuse to go after the back door methods of Executive Orders. Only thing to do here is make sure his foreign handlers don't manage to get another one of their flunkies in the white house. (I know he thinks of himself as "THE ONE" and the self-proclaimed "Savior of the Planet" who can lower water levels and everything, but it should be fairly obvious he's deluding himself as to his powers)
Click to expand...


Fear not Geezer! I'm fairly certain Hillary Clinton was born in the United States, unlike possible GOP nominee Ted Cruz, a native of Canada...:eek: ;)

However, I always come back to the same point. If Obamacare is going to be a disaster, why would Republicans do anything to stand in its way of being implemented? :confused:
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Rover said:
Fear not Geezer! I'm fairly certain Hillary Clinton was born in the United States, unlike possible GOP nominee Ted Cruz, a native of Canada...:eek: ;)

However, I always come back to the same point. If Obamacare is going to be a disaster, why would Republicans do anything to stand in its way of being implemented? :confused:
Click to expand...
It's because the politicians running this country are fools. They're trying to make political hay for their constituents, while failing to see that allowing people to live through the problem is often the best way to create the collective will to solve it.

Honestly, the Republicans could step back from trying to block Obamacare and two years down the road they could do really well in the 2014 elections, perhaps gaining the Senate, just in time to blow it in 2016, because that's what they do these days.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Rover said:
Fear not Geezer! I'm fairly certain Hillary Clinton was born in the United States, unlike possible GOP nominee Ted Cruz, a native of Canada...:eek: ;)
Click to expand...
I'm all for Hillary! Good pick.

Rover said:
However, I always come back to the same point. If Obamacare is going to be a disaster, why would Republicans do anything to stand in its way of being implemented? :confused:
Click to expand...
Because Barry isn't running again (officially); there's no advantage to anyone coming out of this big heap of stinking fail. You're making the bad assumption that "a disaster" would be the best thing for the country as a whole.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

geezer said:
Everyone now realizes that Obamacare is an unmitigated disaster that will have to be undone somehow before we can start making improvements in healthcare delivery.
Click to expand...

Everyone? You really need to get out more. Living in the Echo Chamber is bad for you. Fortunately, ObamaCare covers that affliction...
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

The problem with Obamacare is the expectations game. Know how before every debate the two candidates campaigns talk up how good the other person is (well, maybe not Biden-Palin but you get the idea)? So, I'm sure the Obama team saw an opportunity to pass something that's eluded Presidents since the 1950's save for LBJ's work in this arena. As with a lot of his dealings with the press and the opposition, he naively thought he'd get some plaudits for all that. On the flip side, the GOP thought sure the country was still center-right and would thoroughly reject any big govt expansion, so they went over the top with Death Panels and the like. Problem is its zero hour now, and unless death panels really do prop up after all they'll have some answering to do. Obama's already got his reckoning on this issue (losing the House) back in 2010 and he's run his last campaign. You could say the GOP had theirs in 2012, but they don't want to let it go as evidenced by the shutdown mentality now infecting their membership.

I liken this a lot to the Clinton impeachment fiasco. Repubs spent 6 years claiming Clinton whacked 100 people, was running drugs out of Arkansas airports, sexually assaulted half the female population of the Old Confederacy, went to Russia as a student and was now a Manchurian Candidate, etc etc. By the time it was revealed he was bagging fat interns, the public's reaction was "okay a guy we knew had a history of cheating on his wife...was caught cheating on his wife. We spend $40M to find this out?" People were underwhelmed, although it didn't help that his accusers were all banging women on the side themselves (Hyde, Livingston, Vitter, Sanford, Gingrich, etc).

The biggest problem right now is the expecations game. Obamacare better actually be the disaster the righties have said its going to be, or they're going to look like total idiots. Likewise on some level it needs to work for Obama's sake (like people actually sign up and premiums stay under control).
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Rover said:
Obamacare better actually be the disaster the righties have said its going to be, or they're going to look like total idiots.
Click to expand...
And this will be different how?

Seriously though, (I can be serious) Obamacare is more "unpopular" than anyone could have predicted. I wonder why that is. Have the Republicans oversold the idea that it's pure evil and are now wondering what they can do to contain all the people that were stupid enough to believe them? It's like the debt ceiling fight(s). Are the politicians surprised at all when the people believe the things they say about it (license to create a spending free-for-all, etc)? Or are the reps just as dumb as the rednecks?
 
geezer said:
And this will be different how?

Seriously though, (I can be serious) Obamacare is more "unpopular" than anyone could have predicted. I wonder why that is. Have the Republicans oversold the idea that it's pure evil and are now wondering what they can do to contain all the people that were stupid enough to believe them? It's like the debt ceiling fight(s). Are the politicians surprised at all when the people believe the things they say about it (license to create a spending free-for-all, etc)? Or are the reps just as dumb as the rednecks?
Click to expand...

A combination of things.

1) Obama stupidly underestimated the opposition. He does this on a regular basis. When you let your opponents define you or a policy of yours, and just expect the press/public/etc to sort out the truth for you, you're screwed. This is called Democratitist, a syndrome that affects party leaders from time to time. John Kerry getting Swiftboated comes to mind as well. Not sure why this keeps happening, but I suspect its that the Dems put too much trust in the abilities of the lamestream media, not realizing that Edward R Murrow has been dead for a long, long time.

2) You make money on the right by throwing bombs instead of reasoned opposition. Sarah Palin is widely thought of as a buffoon. Sarah Palin is now a millionaire. Think Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Michelle Bachmann, etc don't see themselves doing that? Why bother with K Street, where you might actually have to do some work and even worse do it anonymously when you can make more money with a gig on right wing media? Since there's no down side from being wrong, pols and pundits are free to launch any ridiculous attack they want. Maybe one of them turns out to be correct, who knows? But in the meantime, if you do it well and incite rage, start lining your pockets because you're about to get really wealthy really quickly.

3) Its tough to do big things anymore. People have little trust in govt, the church, business, etc and there's too much contradictory info. People don't like Obamacare because they're confused about it, but they also don't like the opposition. So, what DO people like? Who knows, except maybe to complain. Until the country picks itself up from the economic dolldrums this kind of skepticism is going to be the norm during off election years. Oddly enough, people tend to get optimistic during election years, something the GOP hasn't figured out since Reagan. They can't understand why warnings of the apocalypse aren't driving voters to the polls. ;)

4) Lastly, its taken too long to implement. A fair point is Medicare came on line quickly in the mid 60's after the bill was passed. I'm assuming SoS too. Like Dodd-Frank, the O needs to speed up his legislative victories instead of the 10 year phase in process. Hopefully his successors will learn from this glaring mistake.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Rover said:
The biggest problem right now is the expecations game. Obamacare better actually be the disaster the righties have said its going to be, or they're going to look like total idiots. Likewise on some level it needs to work for Obama's sake (like people actually sign up and premiums stay under control).
Click to expand...
The biggest problem with this law is the consequences, and more importantly, the timing of them. Whether it works or not won't be known October 1, January 1, or even probably in my lifetime.

If it has the intended effect of dramatically lowering health insurance costs in this country, we aren't going to know that for a long time. If it has the adverse effect, and simply adds another bloated government benefits plan to an already suffocating system, we won't see the consequences of that either for many, many years. It will be our kids and grandkids that pay.

Me, I have no idea. I know that the current system we have doesn't work worth a crap. I don't know if this is how I would have chosen to reform it, but candidly at this point I'm willing to give anything a try.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Rover said:
2) You make money on the right by throwing bombs instead of reasoned opposition. Sarah Palin is widely thought of as a buffoon. Sarah Palin is now a millionaire. Think Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Michelle Bachmann, etc don't see themselves doing that? Why bother with K Street, where you might actually have to do some work and even worse do it anonymously when you can make more money with a gig on right wing media? Since there's no down side from being wrong, pols and pundits are free to launch any ridiculous attack they want. Maybe one of them turns out to be correct, who knows? But in the meantime, if you do it well and incite rage, start lining your pockets because you're about to get really wealthy really quickly.
Click to expand...

And in Cruz's case, I think he perceives (correctly, IMO) that the bomb-throwing persona is exactly how he beat Dewhurst in the primary. Anybody who voted for him who is now unhappy with his persona in DC wasn't paying attention. (Realistically, I think there are few such people.)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

SJHovey said:
Me, I have no idea. I know that the current system we have doesn't work worth a crap. I don't know if this is how I would have chosen to reform it, but candidly at this point I'm willing to give anything a try.
Click to expand...

This.
 
joecct said:
Take Pride America!!

http://www.policymic.com/articles/6...ed-up-thing-about-your-state-check-this-chart
Click to expand...

I think Maine got unfairly stuck with the "dumbest state" label. In Maine the SAT participation rate is around 96%. Most states in the top 20 for SAT scores have a participation rate of around 5%. So in Maine our score gets dragged down by students forced to take the test even though they have no intention (or lack the intellegence) to ever attend college.


That's my excuse and I'm sticking too it!
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

BassAle said:
I think Maine got unfairly stuck with the "dumbest state" label. In Maine the SAT participation rate is around 96%. Most states in the top 20 for SAT scores have a participation rate of around 5%. So in Maine our score gets dragged down by students forced to take the test even though they have no intention (or lack the intellegence) to ever attend college.
Click to expand...
So your defense is that Maine uses a dumb system? Hmmmm.... ;)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 5: Big Brotha

Soooo knucks, perhaps you can explain something to me. Why is it that in a bill where the GOP has cut food stamps under the guise of saving money....are there massive agricultural subsidies whose costs far dwarf the food stamp savings?!?!? I mean, that's a bit hypocritical right, yet almost all of your loony libertarian heroes voted for it. I'm calling out Fishy, Flaggy, etc. What gives people?

http://theweek.com/article/index/250118/why-republicans-will-subsidize-farmers-but-not-the-hungry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top