2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

TF both sides are bad so vote Dem, awesome post

I don't see it that way. While in this case it would have been very similar there are still significant enough differences between the two to make a case either way. People who say they're both the same are for the most part intellectually lazy (or as Rush calls them, Low Information Voters).

 

[unofan]

TF both sides are bad so vote Dem, awesome post

This isn't just both sides. I'm particularly annoyed at the court that approved it. Apparently they received 1800 requests last year and approved every single one. That's more appalling to me than anything else since they're supposed to be the safeguard for the people absent politics. Fark, the govt doesn't even win 1800 traffic court cases in a row.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I don't see it that way. While in this case it would have been very similar there are still significant enough differences between the two to make a case either way. People who say they're both the same are for the most part intellectually lazy (or as Rush calls them, Low Information Voters).

Of course you don't. if you don't think both sides main objective is keeping power I feel sorry for you.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Seems I covered this 6 pages ago geezer!

So you admit that all liberals/"democratics" are exactly the same and think exactly as you do? I knew you guys were robots.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Of course you don't. if you don't think both sides main objective is keeping power I feel sorry for you.

I think he's conceding that point. They still go about it differently which is enough to say they are still different. I thought snowy mountain scene in Shooter had it right. "There are no democrats or republicans son, there are only haves and have nots." Its all about power.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Seems I covered this 6 pages ago geezer!

that's a reasonable take, and I'm glad you're going to bat for GW Bush on this even though he could be considered a "filthy Texan", but it doesn't quite address today's scandal with the extent of the NSA domestic spying program now coming to light. Are you on board or not?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

So, as Cavuto said, time to drop the liberal thing and focus on the reality thing.

That guy who reported that the government looked at Verizon's call information? He now faces treason charges if they can get him back to the USA. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/10/report-nsa-contract-worker-is-surveillance-source/

The huff-and-puffers have it on their front page if you don't like the source I gave.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I think he's conceding that point. They still go about it differently which is enough to say they are still different. I thought snowy mountain scene in Shooter had it right. "There are no democrats or republicans son, there are only haves and have nots." Its all about power.

Stephen Hunter has written some very entertaining shoot-em-up novels. I think Pale Horse Coming was the first one I read and it just blew me away. The movie didn't quite get there for me.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I have a lot of qualms about it, but the trouble is, neither party does more than pay lip service to libertarian bits, and there are a lot more things I dislike about the big-L Libertarians than there are that I like.

 

[Rover]

that's a reasonable take, and I'm glad you're going to bat for GW Bush on this even though he could be considered a "filthy Texan", but it doesn't quite address today's scandal with the extent of the NSA domestic spying program now coming to light. Are you on board or not?

Not 100% on board. I think civil liberties/privacy needs to have a bigger seat at the table. So as best I understand the program, I think you can simply have the phone company keep track of your calls for 12 months and if the govt needs that info they can get it but its got to be specific for a person/area/whatever. The laws are too vague and they allow legal fishing expeditions. That's what needs to be tightened up.

Similarly on web-sites if you're hitting a website on how to make bombs, the govt has not just the right but the duty to look at what you're up to. However, they shouldn't be able to randomly snoop around at what sites you've been looking at (and I'm not talking about offshore gambling or porn, you could be researching a medical issue for example). They can go to court and get a warrant to take a look at where else you've been.

Finally, if its true that the secret court has approved all 1800 requests, that needs some serious re-thinking. A clear chain of command needs to be established to make sure these have all been granted on firm suspicions.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

somebody in HHS is in trouble: http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...4944d0-cec7-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html

And so is somebody in DoE... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...pen-and-widely-accepted-at-energy-department/

Late add: Bill Maher agrees with Ann Coulter.. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...-only-create-more-democrats-you-know-n1616600

 

[pirate]

Not 100% on board. I think civil liberties/privacy needs to have a bigger seat at the table. So as best I understand the program, I think you can simply have the phone company keep track of your calls for 12 months and if the govt needs that info they can get it but its got to be specific for a person/area/whatever. The laws are too vague and they allow legal fishing expeditions. That's what needs to be tightened up.

Similarly on web-sites if you're hitting a website on how to make bombs, the govt has not just the right but the duty to look at what you're up to. However, they shouldn't be able to randomly snoop around at what sites you've been looking at (and I'm not talking about offshore gambling or porn, you could be researching a medical issue for example). They can go to court and get a warrant to take a look at where else you've been.

Finally, if its true that the secret court has approved all 1800 requests, that needs some serious re-thinking. A clear chain of command needs to be established to make sure these have all been granted on firm suspicions.

And it isn't just phone calls...if they can then link you to your Internet provider, credit card data (CFPB has it all), credit bureau, directv, itunes, facebook, etc...the possibilities extend far beyond what they'd think of preventing.

Wasn't somebody on here earlier this year saying they can link suspected terrorists and drug dealers to the amount of water/electricity consumed in a house to determine if more than the typical volume of people were sharing a house?

At one data source is 'scary'...linking 5-6 sources is SCARY.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Pat Buchanan weighs in:
http://m.townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2013/06/11/our-guardian-angel-big-brother-n1617051

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Its all problematic when you consider future WH occupants. I know we have our fun out here but neither GWB or the O comes close to Nixon in terms of paranoia or underhanded tactics. Nixon remember is a guy who inquired about planting pro-McGovern campaign literature in the appartment of the guy who shot Wallace after all. Imagine having a guy like him in office again with all these tools at his disposal. One could make the argument that some cabinet members would blow the whistle (Powell, Rice, Ashcroft, Gates for GWB; Gates, Petreaus, etc for Obama) but recall how thoroughly corrupt Nixon's cabinet was too.

So, some clearer definitions as to what is and isn't legal need to be passed into law by Congress. I'm not pointing the fingers at anybody who set this up originally because we were in uncharted waters, but 10+ years on its time to reassess.

 

[pirate]

Its all problematic when you consider future WH occupants. I know we have our fun out here but neither GWB or the O comes close to Nixon in terms of paranoia or underhanded tactics. Nixon remember is a guy who inquired about planting pro-McGovern campaign literature in the appartment of the guy who shot Wallace after all. Imagine having a guy like him in office again with all these tools at his disposal. One could make the argument that some cabinet members would blow the whistle (Powell, Rice, Ashcroft, Gates for GWB; Gates, Petreaus, etc for Obama) but recall how thoroughly corrupt Nixon's cabinet was too.

So, some clearer definitions as to what is and isn't legal need to be passed into law by Congress. I'm not pointing the fingers at anybody who set this up originally because we were in uncharted waters, but 10+ years on its time to reassess.

Not to minimize Nixon's issues but it may be more damaging to impact the rights of 100 million than it is to completely ignore the rights of 1 man.

It is the million cuts a day that really hurt this country. One corrupt politician or butt-grabbing official creates virtually no problems when compared to the consistent misuse of stats, bogus projections and cooked books that are used every day to make 'legitimate' decisions.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Well now, let's pander to votes, Sen. Kaine.
http://wtop.com/120/3354925/Kaine-gives-Senate-floor-speech-in-Spanish


BTW, I think in 50 years we'll be speaking Spanglish anyway.

 

[Rover]

Well now, let's pander to votes, Sen. Kaine.
http://wtop.com/120/3354925/Kaine-gives-Senate-floor-speech-in-Spanish


BTW, I think in 50 years we'll be speaking Spanglish anyway.

I believe Asians might have surpassed Hispanics as the fastest growing demographic so I'd brush up on my Mandarin instead!

So, why aren't righties talking about the IRS anymore? Could it be because Congressman Grand Theft Auto refused to release the full transcripts of the interviews before his committee? Odd, since he's more than willing to release snippets that bolster his view of things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...lybeast/politics+(The+Daily+Beast+-+Politics)


Starting to sound a lot like his actions over Benghazi. A lot of accusations, a lot of selective public releases, then an effort to suppress any info that doesn't fit with his narrative. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to check and see if my car is still in the parking lot or if Issa made off with it already.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I believe Asians might have surpassed Hispanics as the fastest growing demographic so I'd brush up on my Mandarin instead!

So, why aren't righties talking about the IRS anymore? Could it be because Congressman Grand Theft Auto refused to release the full transcripts of the interviews before his committee? Odd, since he's more than willing to release snippets that bolster his view of things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...lybeast/politics+(The+Daily+Beast+-+Politics)


Starting to sound a lot like his actions over Benghazi. A lot of accusations, a lot of selective public releases, then an effort to suppress any info that doesn't fit with his narrative. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to check and see if my car is still in the parking lot or if Issa made off with it already.

They are. You're just looking in the wrong places. Of course, I'd expect nothing less from someone who thinks right wing watch means you only look at the mainstream dudes.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I believe Asians might have surpassed Hispanics as the fastest growing demographic so I'd brush up on my Mandarin instead!

So, why aren't righties talking about the IRS anymore? Could it be because Congressman Grand Theft Auto refused to release the full transcripts of the interviews before his committee? Odd, since he's more than willing to release snippets that bolster his view of things.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...lybeast/politics+(The+Daily+Beast+-+Politics)


Starting to sound a lot like his actions over Benghazi. A lot of accusations, a lot of selective public releases, then an effort to suppress any info that doesn't fit with his narrative. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to check and see if my car is still in the parking lot or if Issa made off with it already.

Yeah, too bad Issa can't emulate Elijah Cummings, who would never release "snippets" that support his point of view. Even from an unnamed "conservative Republican." And that's an historical fact .

 

[Rover]

Yeah, too bad Issa can't emulate Elijah Cummings, who would never release "snippets" that support his point of view. Even from an unnamed "conservative Republican." And that's an historical fact .

I'm sorry if Issa got your glands going, but the guy's a fraud. And I'm not even talking about his car stealing or arsonist past. Once again conservatives have chased around a "scandal" like a flu ridden blood hound and been left high and dry by some knuckledragger Congressman looking to make a name for himself. Aren't you sick of being left holding the bag Opie?