What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

There are a lot more local precincts on election day and most people can get to them. It is much easier than going to a government office and paying for a photo ID. And it is just another barrier to make voting more difficult for the poor, along with the long lines at voting booths in Ohio and Florida.

Couldn't you say the same thing about the new health care method to avoid the tax?
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Here in polk county, IA, home to several hundred thousand people, there are only two dmv stations where you can get an ID, one for renewals only. Add in county election offices, and thatd be potentially 3 places to get a free ID that are only open M-F and maybe Sat. mornings.

The city of Ankeny, a town of 40k within polk county, itself has a dozen polling places in addition to early voting hours. Des Moines has like 50 polling spots.

You really don't see a difference?

Well, I guess it was a semi-rhetorical question. I know there's plenty of spots to vote and only a few for renewal, however, I'd be curious to see what the incremental cost between the two are.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

And I agree that it's unfathomable that people don't have some form of legitimate ID already.

Because the average USCHO poster has a real handle on what poverty is like. What's the average income, race and education level around here? I'm going to guess
Above the national average
Caucasian
College graduate or above (or attending college)

Does that sum up the average person in poverty?

You mean like how Cuomo was basically allowing NYC to vote anywhere the heck they wanted in the state?
You mean after a natural disaster that destroyed much of the infrastructure in the area? Madness!
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Because the average USCHO poster has a real handle on what poverty is like. What's the average income, race and education level around here? I'm going to guess
Above the national average
Caucasian
College graduate or above (or attending college)

Does that sum up the average person in poverty?


Exactly.

GOP lawmakers believe that voter ID measures will make it harder for certain groups (people who live in poverty or who are older/less mobile, among others who typically vote Dem) to vote. If they didn't believe this and wish to use it as a political strategy, they wouldn't be trying to pass these laws.

It wouldn't be worth the time they are spending on it as it isn't actually a problem of enough proportion.

Imagine if they spent their time on things that are actually problems facing us today.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Exactly.

GOP lawmakers believe that voter ID measures will make it harder for certain groups (people who live in poverty or who are older/less mobile, among others who typically vote Dem) to vote. If they didn't believe this and wish to use it as a political strategy, they wouldn't be trying to pass these laws.

It wouldn't be worth the time they are spending on it as it isn't actually a problem of enough proportion.

Imagine if they spent their time on things that are actually problems facing us today.

Conversely, Democrats are interested in expanding the franchise to include illegals, felons, etc because of the assumption these folks will vote for them. Motor Voter was an initiative from the Clinton years that permits folks to obtain registration materials at DMV offices. You know, those offices we are now told are too difficult for them to get to in order to get ID's. When the so-called "provisional" ballot was created after the debacle in Florida, Democrats wanted folks voting these ballots to do so at one central location, rather than going to the precincts where they claimed they were registered. See, its easier to bring in bus loads of these losers than it is to have them vote from their assigned precincts, like the rest of us have to. The strenuous efforts by Democrats to restore felons to the voting roles is, of course, "doing the right thing for democracy." Just as it was "doing the right thing for democracy" for that black St. Louis judge to order some black precincts to stay open beyond closing time in 2000.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Conversely, Democrats are interested in expanding the franchise to include illegals, felons, etc because of the assumption these folks will vote for them. Motor Voter was an initiative from the Clinton years that permits folks to obtain registration materials at DMV offices. You know, those offices we are now told are too difficult for them to get to in order to get ID's. When the so-called "provisional" ballot was created after the debacle in Florida, Democrats wanted folks voting these ballots to do so at one central location, rather than going to the precincts where they claimed they were registered. See, its easier to bring in bus loads of these losers than it is to have them vote from their assigned precincts, like the rest of us have to. The strenuous efforts by Democrats to restore felons to the voting roles is, of course, "doing the right thing for democracy." Just as it was "doing the right thing for democracy" for that black St. Louis judge to order some black precincts to stay open beyond closing time in 2000.


Are there multiple initiatives by Dems to allow felons to vote? I've never heard of any and a quick Google didn't show Democrat lawmakers trying to pass this. Can you support that statement?

Where are these "bus loads?" Is there proof, or is this an urban (;)) legend? I've never been asked to get on a bus to vote in some other area, presumably multiple times. How do they find these people? What do they do to make it worth the bus-riding voter's time? I'm intrigued by a ride on the Vote Bus. How do I get on?
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Are there multiple initiatives by Dems to allow felons to vote? I've never heard of any and a quick Google didn't show Democrat lawmakers trying to pass this. Can you support that statement?

Where are these "bus loads?" Is there proof, or is this an urban (;)) legend? I've never been asked to get on a bus to vote in some other area, presumably multiple times. How do they find these people? What do they do to make it worth the bus-riding voter's time? I'm intrigued by a ride on the Vote Bus. How do I get on?

So only "democratic lawmakers" are allowed to advocate and work for expanding the franchise to include felons? You'd have to be a Democrat, not properly registered, in an inner city precinct, in order to have been eligible for a bus ride. If that plan had been approved. Ignorance is not an argument.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

So only "democratic lawmakers" are allowed to advocate and work for expanding the franchise to include felons? You'd have to be a Democrat, not properly registered, in an inner city precinct, in order to have been eligible for a bus ride. If that plan had been approved. Ignorance is not an argument.


Do you have proof of either? I've never heard of the felon one, but have heard of the bus thing before but I've never seen it substantiated. I mean, everyone has a video camera on their phone these days, so I'd think there'd be plenty of footage of these Vote Busses.

I can prove that multiple state governments have made it (or are trying to make it) more difficult for certain portions of the population to vote.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Do you have proof of either? I've never heard of the felon one, but have heard of the bus thing before but I've never seen it substantiated. I mean, everyone has a video camera on their phone these days, so I'd think there'd be plenty of footage of these Vote Busses.

I can prove that multiple state governments have made it (or are trying to make it) more difficult for certain portions of the population to vote.

Sorry, Charlie, but your surmises about what someone else's motives may be are not evidence.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Sorry, Charlie, but your surmises about what someone else's motives may be are not evidence.


I don't need motive to prove that they've done it or are trying to do it.

Only the question of why requires the motive.


Do you have anything to prove that Dems (and not just one somewhere, you implied that there were many) want to allow felons to vote? Do you have anything that shows these busses that you mentioned?

Can you hear me through that Reynolds Wrap?
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

OP - I know it throws you when someone asks you to support your wingnut ramblings, but I'm honestly curious about the bus thing, coz I've heard that one before.

The felon thing is less interesting to me and I think you kinda made that one up, so I'll just wait for evidence of this widespread bussing thing.

Thanks!
 
OP - I know it throws you when someone asks you to support your wingnut ramblings, but I'm honestly curious about the bus thing, coz I've heard that one before.

The felon thing is less interesting to me and I think you kinda made that one up, so I'll just wait for evidence of this widespread bussing thing.

Thanks!

:)
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Ladies, please. Google "democrats registering felons" and you'll get page after page of articles explaining this long running, expensive, continuing effort to expand the franchise. Take your pick. How you play this game is to demand a source, then claim the source isn't journalistically up to your standards. So, as I say, Google it, and take your pick. If you're truly interested in learning what your party is up to (assuming you're so ignorant that you're unaware) then there's plenty of information out there. So get to work and look it up.

As to the "bus thing" let me explain it again for the hebephrenic: when so-called provisional ballot laws were offered and debated, there were Democrats who wanted these folks to be able to vote in one central precinct, for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that permits this nonsense. And didn't say there were any that did, only that it was suggested. And I offered the obvious reason why it would be suggested.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Ladies, please. Google "democrats registering felons" and you'll get page after page of articles explaining this long running, expensive, continuing effort to expand the franchise. Take your pick. How you play this game is to demand a source, then claim the source isn't journalistically up to your standards. So, as I say, Google it, and take your pick. If you're truly interested in learning what your party is up to (assuming you're so ignorant that you're unaware) then there's plenty of information out there. So get to work and look it up.

As to the "bus thing" let me explain it again for the hebephrenic: when so-called provisional ballot laws were offered and debated, there were Democrats who wanted these folks to be able to vote in one central precinct, for the reasons I mentioned. I'm not aware of any jurisdiction that permits this nonsense. And didn't say there were any that did, only that it was suggested. And I offered the obvious reason why it would be suggested.


So the bus thing was theoretical? If so, why did you use it as part of your "well they're doing this, so it's okay if we do that" argument about voter ID?

Again, the GOP has enacted or is trying to enact voter ID laws and other forms of voter suppression in an obviously coordinated effort across most of the country where they hold power. This is FACT, not theoretical.

You could argue that the why is theoretical, but anyone of even moderate intelligence can connect those dots.


As for the felon thing, I saw articles that say that most of the 5 mil felons would vote Dem if allowed to vote. How many would actually vote? Who knows?

I couldn't find anything that says that multiple states across the country where Democrats hold sway are trying to pass laws to allow them to vote in a desperate attempt to hold onto power in a demographically challenging future.


Just admit that the voter ID stuff is a strategy just like the union busting stuff. The GOP got away with the union busting and it was a major victory for them and a good (political) strategy.

If they get away with all of this voter suppression, it may benefit them in huge ways. It's a good strategy and it's only aimed at winning elections in the future when the numbers will in all other ways be against the GOP.

Even if voter ID makes some common sense, admit that it's being done right now by these state governments as a ploy. To claim anything else is the height on intellectual dishonesty and only makes one look like a fool.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Ladies, please. Google "democrats registering felons" and you'll get page after page of articles explaining this long running, expensive, continuing effort to expand the franchise. Take your pick. How you play this game is to demand a source, then claim the source isn't journalistically up to your standards. So, as I say, Google it, and take your pick. If you're truly interested in learning what your party is up to (assuming you're so ignorant that you're unaware) then there's plenty of information out there. So get to work and look it up.
The first page of Google results:

Free Republic blog about the evils of felons who are registered Democrats (not that they actually vote)

Palm Beach Post article about felons who haven't had their voting rights restored, but voted anyway. It begins
Peter Costello, a felon convicted of racketeering and fraud in 1998, has no right to vote because his civil rights never have been restored. But that didn’t stop the registered Republican from casting a ballot in the Aug. 14 primary, and, he said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post, submitting an absentee ballot for Tuesday’s election.
Of the 8 voters, 5 are Democrats, 3 are Republicans.

LA Times article from 2004 that a Democratic group was using felons to register new voters - not that the evil doers were casting ballots themselves.
Although it works against the reelection of President Bush, ACT is not affiliated with the Kerry campaign.

A discussion on the Thom Hartmann website about why so many felons are Democrats.

A link from Yahoo Answers which is slightly flawed.

Paper titled "The Politics of the Restoration of Ex-Felon Voting Rights: The Case of Iowa"

A link from Faux News repeating a discredited report from "Minnesota Majority" that felons gave the 2008 US Senate election to Al Franken.

An article from Sound Politics.com repeating that felons are registered Democrats.

An article from The Daily Beast about how convicted felons are disenfranchised twice by not being able to vote.


That's page one. I guess if I continued to later pages I might find articles about the "long running, expensive, continuing effort to expand the franchise" but I don't really see a need to. But thanks for your concern about us being "truly interested" in the evil things our party is up to.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

Because the average USCHO poster has a real handle on what poverty is like. What's the average income, race and education level around here? I'm going to guess
Above the national average
Caucasian
College graduate or above (or attending college)

Does that sum up the average person in poverty?
So people in poverty don't have drivers licenses, social security numbers, etc.? Most people, even in lower income stratas, need to have forms of ID at times. But, nice try.
 
Re: 2nd Term - Part 3 - Echo Chambers, Chorales, and Wingnuts, Oh My!

So people in poverty don't have drivers licenses, social security numbers, etc.? Most people, even in lower income stratas, need to have forms of ID at times. But, nice try.

Not to mention, if you like hockey, that means you're automatically a cake eater. :rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top