2024 Pairwise and Tournament Qualification Thread

[J.D.]

To me, the only adjustment even on the table is swapping the Maine/Cornell game with the NoDak/Michigan game, because it improves the integrity of the bracket slightly. But I wouldn't do it, because it will hurt the attendance at the 2v3 game in Springfield, and if there is a concern about the barn in Maryland Heights, NoDak and Michigan will fill it, whereas Maine and Cornell wouldn't.

To me bracket integrity has been overrated a bit. Just in the sense of McMahon's bracket. It makes little sense to me to trumpet bracket integrity over a slight deviance to keep Maine-Cornell in Springfield and then Michigan-North Dakota in the midwest. Of the "experts" I think Connelly's bracket is the best possible tournament given the rules they work with. The idea of UMass getting boatraced by Denver and then having a Denver vs. Michigan/North Dakota regional final in Springfield, MA just doesn't sit well with me. Sure, UND and Michigan have large fan bases but that's not gonna put a dent in attendance playing in Springfield.

I still like the idea of Michigan State being the one that has to play UMass in Springfield but that will probably be deemed by everyone as too big a punishment for BU in having to go west and then also playing Western Michigan instead of RIT. Despite the fact that BU would absolutely steamroll Western Michigan just like last year.

 

[John J. MacInnes]

I'm having a hard time with this "protect BU" mantra. Not a regular season champion, not a playoff champion, not a host.

The committee has also shown a previous lean toward giving a host school a boost in how tough they consider the matchup. I also think having three west schools in Springfield is not something they want to do. So I'm going with this:

​​​​​Providence
(1) BC vs (4) Tech
(2) Wisc vs (3) Quinnipiac

Maryland Hts MO
(1) BU vs (4) WMU
(2) NoDak vs (3) Dump Skunks

Sioux Falls SD
(1) Denver vs (4) RIT
(2) Minnesota vs (3) Omaha

Springfield MA
(1) MSU vs (4) UMass
(2) Maine vs (3) Cornell

For a school that has one win all time in the tournament, people are giving way too much respect to WMU. That's not as big a sleight on BU to match that. And I think the Big Ten has also earned the bracketing to keep them in four different regions with 4 top ten teams.

 

[Numbers]

To me bracket integrity has been overrated a bit. Just in the sense of McMahon's bracket. It makes little sense to me to trumpet bracket integrity over a slight deviance to keep Maine-Cornell in Springfield and then Michigan-North Dakota in the midwest. Of the "experts" I think Connelly's bracket is the best possible tournament given the rules they work with. The idea of UMass getting boatraced by Denver and then having a Denver vs. Michigan/North Dakota regional final in Springfield, MA just doesn't sit well with me. Sure, UND and Michigan have large fan bases but that's not gonna put a dent in attendance playing in Springfield.

I still like the idea of Michigan State being the one that has to play UMass in Springfield but that will probably be deemed by everyone as too big a punishment for BU in having to go west and then also playing Western Michigan instead of RIT. Despite the fact that BU would absolutely steamroll Western Michigan just like last year.

I agree with the idea of Maryland Heights having NoDak/Mich as well as Mich State/West Mich. That looks like a good "Western" area regional.

In a vacuum, I agree that the lowest #1 (MSU) should play in Springfield. But this isn't happening in a vacuum. BU already has to go west. Since that is true, it is more 'correct' in my mind to give the #2 overall seed a game with RIT (instead of WMU) than to give MSU, rather than Denver, a game with UMass.

 

[J.D.]

I'm having a hard time with this "protect BU" mantra. Not a regular season champion, not a playoff champion, not a host.

The committee has also shown a previous lean toward giving a host school a boost in how tough they consider the matchup. I also think having three west schools in Springfield is not something they want to do. So I'm going with this:

​​​​​Providence
(1) BC vs (4) Tech
(2) Wisc vs (3) Quinnipiac

Maryland Hts MO
(1) BU vs (4) WMU
(2) NoDak vs (3) Dump Skunks

Sioux Falls SD
(1) Denver vs (4) RIT
(2) Minnesota vs (3) Omaha

Springfield MA
(1) MSU vs (4) UMass
(2) Maine vs (3) Cornell

For a school that has one win all time in the tournament, people are giving way too much respect to WMU. That's not as big a sleight on BU to match that. And I think the Big Ten has also earned the bracketing to keep them in four different regions with 4 top ten teams.

This was the very first bracket I came up with. It's not just about protecting BU though. It's a decision on "trying" to protect #2 overall compared to protecting #3 over #4 overall. I agree with you though, playing WMU shouldn't be a concern for BU. They would blow them off the ice just like last year. The committee probably won't view it that way though. But they should at least be evaluating what they think the bigger disadvantage is...BU having to play WMU or Denver not being placed in TWO regionals closer than Springfield/avoiding playing UMass in a virtual road game when they finished ahead of Michigan State. The 3/14 bracket integrity aspect is irrelevant to me in these circumstances.

With that said, the one thing I cannot get behind is McMahon's bracket where he has Maine-Cornell in the midwest and Michigan-North Dakota in Springfield. I just find that entirely unnecessary and too beholden to bracket integrity.

 

[J.D.]

Also, I don't think the Big Ten has earned shit to be honest. Haven't even won a national title and the lowest ranked #1 seed. Having four top ten teams isn't a reason to try and space those teams out into different regionals.

 

[ticapnews]

I'm having a hard time with this "protect BU" mantra. Not a regular season champion, not a playoff champion, not a host.

"You salute the rank not the man."

They wouldn't be protecting BU, they would be protecting the #2 overall seed.

BU in Sioux Falls means that if form holds you have 1v8 and 2v7 in the regional finals.

Yes, the margins are ridiculously tight but these things matter to the NCAA. I won't be all that surprised however they place the 1 seeds (except BC)

 

[Numbers]

I'm having a hard time with this "protect BU" mantra. Not a regular season champion, not a playoff champion, not a host.

The committee has also shown a previous lean toward giving a host school a boost in how tough they consider the matchup. I also think having three west schools in Springfield is not something they want to do. So I'm going with this:

​​​​​Providence
(1) BC vs (4) Tech
(2) Wisc vs (3) Quinnipiac

Maryland Hts MO
(1) BU vs (4) WMU
(2) NoDak vs (3) Dump Skunks

Sioux Falls SD
(1) Denver vs (4) RIT
(2) Minnesota vs (3) Omaha

Springfield MA
(1) MSU vs (4) UMass
(2) Maine vs (3) Cornell

For a school that has one win all time in the tournament, people are giving way too much respect to WMU. That's not as big a sleight on BU to match that. And I think the Big Ten has also earned the bracketing to keep them in four different regions with 4 top ten teams.

As a reminder, there is absolutely nothing in the handbook that says anything about spreading teams from one conference to different regions. With all due respect, Mr MacInnes, for the role you have played in the development of our game, you can lobby for such a change in future years.

 

[J.D.]

On the Maine/Cornell vs. Michigan/North Dakota placement, if everyone is so obsessed with avoiding intra conference matchups in round one, hey let's go nuts. Let's do our best to avoid it in round two then. And lining up #3 overall with #5 and then #4 with #6 seems like a miniscule tweak to allow that. Better for attendance as well. But bracket integrity!

The funniest thing of all to me is that BU and UMass haven't played each other since OCTOBER...basically preseason!

 

[Darius]

I've been quietly following this thread and understand the considerations, concepts, variables of how this all works. The nuanced details have destroyed common sense. The casual/non-fan would marvel at highly seeded NoDak not being in SoDak and BU getting on a plane with two venues in driving distance. Stupid.

 

[Darius]

Also, there should be a path to a BU/BC finals rematch. Can we do that, please?

 

[StillKIA2]

I'm having a hard time with this "protect BU" mantra. Not a regular season champion, not a playoff champion, not a host.

I think your logic is faulty
I hate stupid BU as much as or more than any other living person, but…
“not a conference champion”, but better than 5 conference champions
“not a tournament champion”, but better than 5 tournament champions (or maybe 4…stupid BU did lose to the Big Red)

so are you proposing that a tournament champion should get treated better than the national 2 seed?

 

[Seacaptim]

Also, there should be a path to a BU/BC finals rematch. Can we do that, please?

BC vs. BU will 100% meet in the NCAA finals should they both advance. #1 seed BC bracket will face the #4 seed bracket-Michigan State-?, while the #2 and #3 seeds square off in the Frozen Four.

 

[J.D.]

I've been quietly following this thread and understand the considerations, concepts, variables of how this all works. The nuanced details have destroyed common sense. The casual/non-fan would marvel at highly seeded NoDak not being in SoDak and BU getting on a plane with two venues in driving distance. Stupid.

Well, North Dakota has nobody to blame but themselves. Late in the season they were a puddle away from home. Swept at CC and Omaha and then lost to Omaha again in a "neutral" ice game in St. Paul. All BU did was come up short in catching BC for #1 overall.

 

[Numbers]

Slightly different tack....
Nest year there is a regional in Toledo. Usually that is a mess for attendance. But with this year's PWR, it would be possible to have a Toledo Regional of:
Mich State v Western Michigan
Maine v Michigan

That would be as good as Toledo could ever get.

And, it would be fine with the rest of the bracket as well.
North Dakota would be hosting at Fargo with maybe Denver, Cornell and UMass present
BC's whole region would be in Manchester.
And, finally, BU, Maine Omaha and RIT would be in Allentown.

 

[ticapnews]

Slightly different tack....
Nest year there is a regional in Toledo. Usually that is a mess for attendance. But with this year's PWR, it would be possible to have a Toledo Regional of:
Mich State v Western Michigan
Maine v Michigan

That would be as good as Toledo could ever get.

And, it would be fine with the rest of the bracket as well.
North Dakota would be hosting at Fargo with maybe Denver, Cornell and UMass present
BC's whole region would be in Manchester.
And, finally, BU, Maine Omaha and RIT would be in Allentown.

I am afraid fatigue might be a factor, but I appreciate letting Maine be in the tournament twice.

My power is out and Internet spotty so I haven't checked, but are Wodon and his disciples still preaching about flipping seeds so BU can stay in Springfield?

 

[brassbonanza]

I am afraid fatigue might be a factor, but I appreciate letting Maine be in the tournament twice.

My power is out and Internet spotty so I haven't checked, but are Wodon and his disciples still preaching about flipping seeds so BU can stay in Springfield?

No

 

[John J. MacInnes]

I think your logic is faulty
I hate stupid BU as much as or more than any other living person, but…
“not a conference champion”, but better than 5 conference champions
“not a tournament champion”, but better than 5 tournament champions (or maybe 4…stupid BU did lose to the Big Red)

so are you proposing that a tournament champion should get treated better than the national 2 seed?

There was a time in the 12 team tournament era that being a double champion (regular season & playoff) meant an automatic bye and a top 4 seed.

So yes, i'm putting more value on that. Granted, the leagues were different then. But with all the other emphasis on out-of-league play in the selection process, I'd like something to add value with what you accomplished in your league.

BU has a lot of talent. They're a very good team. But I still question their goaltending and their big game mentality. Anyone who is already locking in a BC/BU final is both premature and lacking in historical context.

 

[J.D.]

I am afraid fatigue might be a factor, but I appreciate letting Maine be in the tournament twice.

My power is out and Internet spotty so I haven't checked, but are Wodon and his disciples still preaching about flipping seeds so BU can stay in Springfield?

I think his point there was if the teams were right next to each other like #12 and #13. With UMass at 14, less of an appetite for that.

 

[Darius]

BC vs. BU will 100% meet in the NCAA finals should they both advance. #1 seed BC bracket will face the #4 seed bracket-Michigan State-?, while the #2 and #3 seeds square off in the Frozen Four.

Thanks!

 

[brassbonanza]

There was a time in the 12 team tournament era that being a double champion (regular season & playoff) meant an automatic bye and a top 4 seed.

So yes, i'm putting more value on that. Granted, the leagues were different then. But with all the other emphasis on out-of-league play in the selection process, I'd like something to add value with what you accomplished in your league.

BU has a lot of talent. They're a very good team. But I still question their goaltending and their big game mentality. Anyone who is already locking in a BC/BU final is both premature and lacking in historical context.

It's not the 1990s anymore. The ECAC winner this year does not deserve a #1 seed and a bye. If BU had lost in the HE tournament last year, the HE winner did not deserve a #1 seed and a bye.

Conference accomplishments should equate to nothing other than a potential automatic berth. Auto-byes and seeding normalizes the concept that all conferences and conference winners are equal. They're not. You should not be able to win three conference tournament games as the 5th place team in your league and get a high seed and bye in the NCAA tournament.

This is a ridiculous proposition that no other college or pro sports tournament does.