2024 Elections: One Last Chance for Democracy

[Jimjamesak]

Yeah Trump will be able to handle Vance getting all of the positive attention (for going over a comically low bar) perfectly well and not undo everything within the week.

I wouldn't be surprised if he suddenly agrees to another debate because he desperately needs the attention.

 

[Handyman]

This is why no fact checking is criminal...I get they did later but still. How can you debate someone who completely changes all their positions?

 

[Handyman]

Vance was a polished enough liar that it gave Dump voters who don't want to admit they're Dump voters (aka "undecideds") the ability to say "see, they're not so bad!"

If people are dumb enough to vote for Trump because Vance told them what they wanted to hear then well please turn out the lights when you leave because the party is over.

Thankfully I don't think Veepb debates have that kind of sway. Plus no way Trump pivots.

 

[Jimjamesak]

If people are dumb enough to vote for Trump because Vance told them what they wanted to hear then well please turn out the lights when you leave because the party is over.

This is America.

Thankfully I don't think Veepb debates have that kind of sway. Plus no way Trump pivots.

I just have a hunch that Dumps ego can't let Vance be the shining star.

 

[Bronco]

If Trump loses then Vance, assuming the cult doesn't kill him, is likely the next attempt to bring a more compassionate fascism to America.

 

[Handyman]

I just have a hunch that Dumps ego can't let Vance be the shining star.

Oh I agree...although balking at 60 minutes gives me pause.

My SO is perusing Ex-Twitter...doesnt sound so bad and the headlines seem to be the 1/6 deal or how it was pretty even. Trumpers are pushing the China thing to avoid the issue.

NBC had a focus group in PA and Walz took 5/6 and you know they don't like that.

I just don't think anyone really cares... they know who both these guys are and who they are running with.

 

[Handyman]

https://www.threads.net/@notcapname...QGzG18gFP9WpR6Oi_TpcIsL-ycmctGIta9OT9OptkV6CA

If this is true oh my...

 

[Handyman]

The Atlantic and USA Today destroyed Vance about January 6th and the lies about the peaceful transfer of power.

Oh and I saw Mexican Kato Kaelin!!

 

[Handyman]

According to CNN Vance went from -22 favorability to - 2...Walz went from +14 to +37.

Also in the "is he qualified to be President if needed" Walz went from 62% to 65%.

CBS pretty much the same and the debate was a wash.

 

[Handyman]

Weird...I updated that post about the numbers last night with links but it seems to have never updated! ITS RIGGED!!1!!!1!1

 

[MichVandal]

Just watching an anti-Harris ad- where a supposedly MSP cop is telling his story about having his teeth knocked out by a brick. He accused Harris of defending PEACEFUL protesting. Yea, he even says peaceful protesting. That pesky free speech that is protected by the first amendment.

This guy actually is trying to make a story that the first amendment is dangerous to the US because Harris is defending peaceful protests.

(and they are brushing over the fact that an MSP cop murdered someone in cold blood while his fellow MPS cops stood by and let him. So defunding murdering bad cops is somehow a bad thing?)

 

[Handyman]

Just watching an anti-Harris ad- where a supposedly MSP cop is telling his story about having his teeth knocked out by a brick. He accused Harris of defending PEACEFUL protesting. Yea, he even says peaceful protesting. That pesky free speech that is protected by the first amendment.

This guy actually is trying to make a story that the first amendment is dangerous to the US because Harris is defending peaceful protests.

(and they are brushing over the fact that an MSP cop murdered someone in cold blood while his fellow MPS cops stood by and let him. So defunding murdering bad cops is somehow a bad thing?)

I am sure it was an MSP cop...there is a large segment of them that think the public are there to bow to their greatness. It is why Minneapolis wanted to scrap the PD and start over after Floyd...there is a lot of corruption and cowboy justice that goes on with no real way to hold them to account. Getting rid of the head of the union did nothing, changing chiefs did nothing...its sad. Not as bad as it was when I lived near the 3rd precinct back in the day though...that police house was basically organized crime. A lot of them were the old gang unit guys who were notorious for beating up Latinos and stealing their drugs and money like a bad episode of Law and Order. Driving While Black was definitely a thing...

But, and understand this is hypothetical, it is almost impossible to get a DUI in Minneapolis if you are driving after 1am. They don't want to do the paperwork or deal with the hassle. Once you are out of the city limits its game on though. I know I feel safe on the roads leaving the city

 

[Jimjamesak]

The ads up here have been hilarious. We only have the House race but it’s hilarious watching the Republicans being massively outspent, ads are probably 4 to 1 in favor of Peltola (a rarity for a race here) and they all show how wildly out of touch the Republicans are.

The NRCC keeps playing a singular ad attacking Peltola over voting against military pay raises. Couldn’t get a border ad to stick so that’s what they went with.

Begich is going with the “lifelong Alaskan, Trump endorsed job creator” line while doing the classic “she just votes with Biden 80% of the time!” schtick.

Meanwhile Peltola and the SuperPACs are clobbering Begich. Turns out his company is mostly based in India, whoops not much of a job creator. Also, they found an interview where he called social security a “ponzi scheme”. Guess what’s been playing over and over? And then there’s the attacks on abortion rights.

It’s been fun to see, for really the first time up here, the Republicans flailing in the wind.

 

[MichVandal]

I am sure it was an MSP cop...there is a large segment of them that think the public are there to bow to their greatness. It is why Minneapolis wanted to scrap the PD and start over after Floyd...there is a lot of corruption and cowboy justice that goes on with no real way to hold them to account. Getting rid of the head of the union did nothing, changing chiefs did nothing...its sad. Not as bad as it was when I lived near the 3rd precinct back in the day though...that police house was basically organized crime. A lot of them were the old gang unit guys who were notorious for beating up Latinos and stealing their drugs and money like a bad episode of Law and Order. Driving While Black was definitely a thing...

But, and understand this is hypothetical, it is almost impossible to get a DUI in Minneapolis if you are driving after 1am. They don't want to do the paperwork or deal with the hassle. Once you are out of the city limits its game on though. I know I feel safe on the roads leaving the city

I kind of figured that in terms of the MSP cops. But for him to actually say that Harris' defending of PEACEFUL protests were dangerous is amazing. The ones that we can all agree that is part of the fabric of our Constitution.

Let alone the fact that he was in a very non peaceful protest when a brick was thrown at him- come on. When he were assaulted, that kind of riots (that your policy started) isn't at all what he's complaining about.

 

[Handyman]

https://www.newsweek.com/tim-walz-jd...-boost-1962380



The last one amuses me, since Vance's defense of Trump's record appeared to be the avoid acknowledging anything he ever said or did or just go with an ambiguous "everything was perfect back when he was president" (note: offer not valid after February 2020; also note: offer before February 2020 involves coasting off of Obama's economy).

Yeah those were the numbers I posted (or thought I did anyways) which I found to be in line with what I think the Veep debate usually comes down to. No one cares about the Veep policies because, as was pointed out by an awesome student in Michigan on MSNBC, VEEPS HAVE NO POWER! (note: find the clip of Marcus on MSNBC...that guy has a bright future and his mocking people who don't understand civics was great!) Veep debates are about who is likeable and who is ready to take over if needed. (Walz gained in that regard as well) The policies are known, now it is about who resonates. That is why in snap polling by everyone not affiliated with Murdoch or Qanon the debate was pretty even. CBS had it 42-41 Vance with the rest saying a tie. That seems in line with everyone else I read. No one really cares about Veep debates...its like watching the third place game. Everyone remembers a highlight or two, but that is about it. (and on that everyone agrees Walz won and Vance made a huge blunder)

Leaving out the other issues they have (we need money!) I think last night showed the issues Legacy Media is having with how campaigns work in the Gen Z era. I remember watching the '92 Veep Debate (not the content but just watching it) because honestly that was the only time we would see those guys talk outside of a 30 second clip on the news. Rallies were rarely carried live and interviews were fleeting so debates were must sees and the analysis after the fact was super important. Nowadays...just a different ballgame. While it is stupid that CBS wasn't fact checking (until they did because Vance is just awful) the truth is most of the people watching just did it themselves. When Vance talked about abortion anyone could google "JD Vance Abortion" and his whole "we aren't so bad" schtick goes right out the window. And lets be honest, the vast majority of people who were watching were not people who don't already know who these guys are. If people are so tuned out they have no idea who is running they aren't voting and they certainly aren't going to make a decision based on this. If that was the case John Edwards would have been a helluva Veep. Legacy media though is playing the game like it is still 1996 or 2000 and that just isn't the case. The slick act of Vance won't really work because everyone knows who he is.

Outside of all that, I think the one thing we can glean from this is that (leaving aside the policies) the people seem to want to go back to this style of politicking. I think they want an end to vitriol. I think they would prefer the two candidates, even if they completely disagree and don't like each other, to at least go through the motions of respect and deference. I think that is why you saw big jumps in favorability for each. Vance played the part of the politician, Walz played the part of the "Aw Shucks" and they had a discussion. I think politicos are arguing otherwise in some ways (WHY DIDNT WALZ ATTACK HIM!?!?!?) but honestly, I think the vast majority of voters who aren't junkies like us (and I won't lie even me) are just tired of that. unofan mentioned Pete and yeah Pete would have destroyed him on those issues and it would have been so damned satisfying, but I honestly am not sure that would have even moved the needle at all and it would have just lead to Vance firing back and then chaos and everyone tunes out. I think the country is exhausted and they would rather watch this than the Trump Apocalyptic Tour and the Dem response to it.

I could be wrong though.

 

[Handyman]

I kind of figured that in terms of the MSP cops. But for him to actually say that Harris' defending of PEACEFUL protests were dangerous is amazing. The ones that we can all agree that is part of the fabric of our Constitution.

Let alone the fact that he was in a very non peaceful protest when a brick was thrown at him- come on. When he were assaulted, that kind of riots (that your policy started) isn't at all what he's complaining about.

I dont remember any stories of a cop getting hit by a brick in a protest...not saying it didn't happen but I usually remember stuff like that. I may crap on cops but I never endorse violence against them unless they attack first.

 

[Jimjamesak]

“The rules were you weren’t going to fact check” is gaining a ton of traction from what I’ve seen online.

 

[Handyman]

“The rules were you weren’t going to fact check” is gaining a ton of traction from what I’ve seen online.

That was being meme'd hard last night. It was everywhere. That is what the people were talking about. The media was either talking about him being slick or refusing to answer the Democracy Question.

Harris had a montage of clips last night where Vance said "peaceful transfer of power" alongside clips from Jan 6th. I would make that an ad and playing it in every swing state. I would also make an ad showing every time Trump lied about the election and called for Pence to do the right thing and then show Vance dodge the question with Walz saying "That is a damning non-answer". Blitz it everywhere and circulate it online and buy youtube ads. Then I would make an ad about Haitians (including admitting he lied) and end it with the fact check line. 3 easy ads using their own words against them.

 

[Handyman]

He now, JD was very clear that it was inauguration day that was peaceful. You know, when the insurrection had already failed and Trump really really had no choice at that point. He deserves points for not going full Scarface on the 20th.

He would have a point if Trump had even showed up.

"Many people are saying it was a historic transfer of power...they say no President has ever done that before! People were crying talking about it!"

 

[psych]

Yeah those were the numbers I posted (or thought I did anyways) which I found to be in line with what I think the Veep debate usually comes down to. No one cares about the Veep policies because, as was pointed out by an awesome student in Michigan on MSNBC, VEEPS HAVE NO POWER! (note: find the clip of Marcus on MSNBC...that guy has a bright future and his mocking people who don't understand civics was great!) Veep debates are about who is likeable and who is ready to take over if needed. (Walz gained in that regard as well) The policies are known, now it is about who resonates. That is why in snap polling by everyone not affiliated with Murdoch or Qanon the debate was pretty even. CBS had it 42-41 Vance with the rest saying a tie. That seems in line with everyone else I read. No one really cares about Veep debates...its like watching the third place game. Everyone remembers a highlight or two, but that is about it. (and on that everyone agrees Walz won and Vance made a huge blunder)

Leaving out the other issues they have (we need money!) I think last night showed the issues Legacy Media is having with how campaigns work in the Gen Z era. I remember watching the '92 Veep Debate (not the content but just watching it) because honestly that was the only time we would see those guys talk outside of a 30 second clip on the news. Rallies were rarely carried live and interviews were fleeting so debates were must sees and the analysis after the fact was super important. Nowadays...just a different ballgame. While it is stupid that CBS wasn't fact checking (until they did because Vance is just awful) the truth is most of the people watching just did it themselves. When Vance talked about abortion anyone could google "JD Vance Abortion" and his whole "we aren't so bad" schtick goes right out the window. And lets be honest, the vast majority of people who were watching were not people who don't already know who these guys are. If people are so tuned out they have no idea who is running they aren't voting and they certainly aren't going to make a decision based on this. If that was the case John Edwards would have been a helluva Veep. Legacy media though is playing the game like it is still 1996 or 2000 and that just isn't the case. The slick act of Vance won't really work because everyone knows who he is.

Outside of all that, I think the one thing we can glean from this is that (leaving aside the policies) the people seem to want to go back to this style of politicking. I think they want an end to vitriol. I think they would prefer the two candidates, even if they completely disagree and don't like each other, to at least go through the motions of respect and deference. I think that is why you saw big jumps in favorability for each. Vance played the part of the politician, Walz played the part of the "Aw Shucks" and they had a discussion. I think politicos are arguing otherwise in some ways (WHY DIDNT WALZ ATTACK HIM!?!?!?) but honestly, I think the vast majority of voters who aren't junkies like us (and I won't lie even me) are just tired of that. unofan mentioned Pete and yeah Pete would have destroyed him on those issues and it would have been so damned satisfying, but I honestly am not sure that would have even moved the needle at all and it would have just lead to Vance firing back and then chaos and everyone tunes out. I think the country is exhausted and they would rather watch this than the Trump Apocalyptic Tour and the Dem response to it.

I could be wrong though.

No. I think you’re right.