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2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

So, to sum up:

1) Cory Booker has a bill about reparations that isn't actually about paying reparations
2) But, there's a House bill that is about paying reparations
3) We should expect both the media and the Republicans to tell the truth about the differences between 1 & 2 because both of those entities are committed to an honest discussion about policy proposals and would never resort to fear mongering to drive ratings or win votes.

Is that about it?
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Some jokes are jokes because they reflect back upon themselves.

That joke was a joke because it was my joke on me. I was enjoying and making fun of my reputation earned around here, oh I can't imagine how, of being a coastal elitist. And in so doing giving some joy to the haters. It was a shared moment for those who caught it, which I suspect were many.

That you missed that it was a joke... sorry, I cannot help you. Presumably that isn't because of where you live or where you're from. It's not about any other characteristic than just this one, which is not a joke. I need you to be smarter. I'm not going to slow down for you.

I think it is funny you dont know what emojis mean :D We go through this like every few months :D

(for example the part of the post you quoted was sarcasm)

I was playing off your joke...hence the emoji sticking its tongue out and calling you "Kepler the Great". I told you years ago none of this is personal it is just discussion. I just think you project more than you think you do ;)
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Argumentum ad populum ftw!

And now is the part of the play where our hero starts trying to make themselves sound smarter by using Latin!

Honest question trix...ignore all the other BS for now. Do you think Booker has any shot to win the Presidency if his plan is part of his agenda? This is not about "should he" this is strictly yes or no. If it is Booker vs. Trump in 2020 what would the results be? If you dont then honestly this whole discussion is kinda stupid. (see also: UBI) Right now it is about figuring out how to win. Do that and then we can worry about the rest of this crap.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

So you don’t know what they mean. It’s ok to just say that.

Kepler and trix, a five-act play:

K+T: Reparations bill
K+T: They probably didn’t even read it
K+T: They definitely didn’t read it
K+T: Racists!
K+T: Argument won *smug high fives*


If you two extremists want to be taken seriously, maybe make serious proposals that actually will have the intended effect. I like you both but this is hilarious.

I can't speak for trix but I don't feel I have to make any serious proposal, at least not yet (Booker doesn't and I'm not even sure Ta-Nehisi Coates has). I can see the sense in reparations but it's not my fight. I'm for flaying the rich alive. Whitey will have to wait.

The thing that was worth doing was showing people that their shrieking irrational terror of a word was (1) ahistorical, (2) an overreaction, (3) really convenient to those who want the status quo to remain stagnant. Mission accomplished. If you want to talk about the nuts and bolts of reparations, sure, I'll do that, though maybe a dedicated thread since we both know this won't be the defining issue of the nomination.

As long as people are trying sincerely to argue towards the truth they are OK with me, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt for a long time. This is, for example, why for the longest time I was cool with Bob Gray and even flaggy, who I assumed was doing a Bit designed to get us to reflect on the idiocies we allow to occupy our minds without reflection or critique. I didn't figure out forever what he was really all about, in large part because until that Toronto dude I'd never even heard of an incel before. And Bob... well, I still have a soft spot for Bob. The whole Christ complex thing isn't a deal breaker for me -- my Mom taught CCD FFS.

Most people here possess the quality of honesty. There are only a few who are apparently here because they want to win an argument and don't care about its merits, they just want to win. Those are the only people to truly despise, because they're the enemy of the open exchange of ideas.

Now let me suggest an improvement to the play:

Kepler and trix, the full Ring cycle:

K+T: Reparations bill
K+T: They probably didn’t even read it
T: They definitely didn’t read it
K: I'm sure they can't even read it
T: Racists!
K: And morons!
K+T: Argument won! *smug high fives*

That's how it felt here, anyway.

Here's why I like you and it doesn't matter to me one bit if we agree on things or not. You're trying to find something and you don't much care whether that thing is ascribed to you in the end or not. If it gets found, you are richer for it. Now, you aren't an as-shole, so you're still polite about it, and that makes you a better person than I and much more fun at parties.

But even though I'm lazy and a fool I'm motivated by the same thing: find the new thing that's true that I didn't know. I've learned plenty for myself from the Cafe that I didn't know before, and, well, just think about that -- that's amazing. Where on social media does one find even the slightest bit of actual discovered knowledge, as opposed to the recapitalization of the safe stupidities of the general population? We have no right to expect that and yet it happens here sometimes.

The way I have learned to help that happen, which is unpleasant, is to never give any quarter to the dimwittery that is expected of public discourse, and to play whichever role is needed at a given time to move the f-cking puck out of the dummy zone and into the smart zone. I do not care who scores -- almost every person on the Cafe is smart enough to score, assuming they have a chance rather than stopping and picking their nose to whatever the safe, unexamined "gerede"* of the day is.

I just want to see goals. Well, and girls. But that's not happening here.

* as used in Being and Time as "the everyday speaking of the public world" -- the inauthentic burble of people touching antennae not to learn but to establish conviviality. Literally the German for "chatter," but a bit more than that. A technical term meaning the auto-speech we do at say a cocktail party or a work lunch. Vacuity. Inauthenticity.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

And now is the part of the play where our hero starts trying to make themselves sound smarter by using Latin!

Honest question trix...ignore all the other BS for now. Do you think Booker has any shot to win the Presidency if his plan is part of his agenda? This is not about "should he" this is strictly yes or no. If it is Booker vs. Trump in 2020 what would the results be? If you dont then honestly this whole discussion is kinda stupid. (see also: UBI) Right now it is about figuring out how to win. Do that and then we can worry about the rest of this crap.
Look, I don't think reparations is a winning issue if you use the word reparations because the well has been poisoned on that one since forever. So honestly I don't think we disagree all that much here and Booker's chances are slim no matter what he does (for the reasons you've already outlined, his record is bad and we know who funds him). I've already stated that I think the best way to deal with the wealth gap is via higher taxes on the rich (whether through a wealth tax, inheritance tax, capital gains, whatever) and things like affordable college, medicare for all, a min wage that makes sense for the year we're in, and job guarantees (part of the Green New Deal). Basically the goal should be to make the American Dream a possibility for everyone and making economic mobility an actual thing like it used to be.
 
Booker's proposal doesn't either which is why the last 2-3 pages have been especially hilarious.

Language matters.

Heck, there is a “code word” for every ‘group think’ title in the English language.

Just stop. What is hilarious is when smart people continually do dumb things :). Insanity definition :p
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

What is hilarious is when smart people continually do dumb things

This is a really great definition. When Mediocres do the same thing expecting a different result that's insanity. When Dummies do it it's... well... inevitability. When Smarties do it it's hilarity. I am totally stealing this. That could be out of the Poetics if Aristotle had a sense of humor (he didn't). :p
 
This is a really great definition. When Mediocres do the same thing expecting a different result that's insanity. When Dummies do it it's... well... inevitability. When Smarties do it it's hilarity. I am totally stealing this. That could be out of the Poetics if Aristotle had a sense of humor (he didn't). :p

Mookie’s pleasure :)
Feel free
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Look, I don't think reparations is a winning issue if you use the word reparations because the well has been poisoned on that one since forever.

It's not a winning issue today, but things change. Single Payer used to have the same sort of BURN THE WITCH sulfuric scent and now it's going to be in the Dem platform assuming Bernie, Liz or somebody else liberal wins the nom.

I mean, you know what used to be unpopular? Concentration camps. Now the GOP thinks they are apple pie. Things change, but not by themselves. People talking changes them.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Been waiting for 40 acres and a mule for a long time Kep.

Yep. Tell it to Rutherford B. Hayes.

It took about 100 years after the 15th Amendment for blacks to really have the vote, and the GOP has been clawing it back.

This sh-t takes time.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

So we can expect the Democratic debates to look and sound like you all?

:o
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I dont think the debates will be anything like this...cause only people whose campaigns are dying will take chances on things that will cause this kind of issue. No candidate with any real shot at winning will blow it going after Reparations or UBI or something ridiculous like that. Right now people are just trying to stay relevant so it makes sense to do something crazy...

Whoever wins will have an agenda that annoys the Bernie Bros but will be much more acceptable to the rest of the 90% of the Party and the country.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I dont think the debates will be anything like this...cause only people whose campaigns are dying will take chances on things that will cause this kind of issue. No candidate with any real shot at winning will blow it going after Reparations or UBI or something ridiculous like that. Right now people are just trying to stay relevant so it makes sense to do something crazy...

Whoever wins will have an agenda that annoys the Bernie Bros but will be much more acceptable to the rest of the 90% of the Party and the country.

Sure. Don't run on anything silly like ripping apart the EPA, stealing 23 trillion from the treasury for the 1%, or tearing down the Statue of Liberty. None of that would ever work.
 
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