2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Obama's record came into question for deporting record amounts of illegals and building all of the infrastructure that ICE uses to terrorize immigrants today. Biden doesn't get to be on both sides where he's completely powerless when it comes to the bad parts of Obama's record but also entirely responsible for all of his success.

Deportation in and of itself is far less the issue than Trump's decision to up the ante by terrorizing families caught up in the process.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Trump made it a lot worse in a hurry, no debate there. The bigger issue with Obama was that he basically gave the next administration all the tools and infrastructure to do what they're currently doing (and ICE's record under Obama was still horrific).

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Trump made it a lot worse in a hurry, no debate there. The bigger issue with Obama was that he basically gave the next administration all the tools and infrastructure to do what they're currently doing (and ICE's record under Obama was still horrific).

This is stupid even for you. Obama's administration IIRC was deporting people with criminal records. Again, I don't know what flies at the hypothetical vegan co-op in Burlington VT, but once again this is an issue you're going to gift to the Republicans. No, I don't want people deported for jaywalking, and I'm not aware Obama ever did something like that. However if you've decided that dealing drugs is the way you're going to make a living, you take the risk of getting deported. Most immigrants are hard working and law abiding. That's different than saying every one is, and I'll close by noting that Obama extended more protections to illegals (Dreamers) than any other Prez.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Ok, let's break this down for Rover since he's really dumb.

1) Obama increased ICE's ability to terrorize immigrant communities. DHS did this in a number of ways such as creating a huge database (of I believe DNA/fingerprints) to check people against and in some cases was used to deport people that committed minor offenses (which, shockingly, Rover has never heard about). They also kept the policy where re-entering the country illegally is considered a felony (in which case those immigrants get deported or sent to federal prison).

Obama embraced Secure Communities rather than workplace raids as his enforcement tool of choice. The program, developed under Bush, was seen as a cost-effective force multiplier, employing local law enforcement to detain immigrants rather than an expensive army of federal agents. It also promised better public relations, deporting not sympathetic low-wage workers but the “apprehension and removal of dangerous criminal aliens.”

The result was an unprecedented computerized deportation machinery linking local police to ICE.

“The scale in just the number of people who were being checked against these databases increased tremendously. And what that led to was a lot of removals,” said Migration Policy Institute analyst Faye Hipsman. “It became essentially the main pipeline into the removal process, into the deportation process.”

But it soon became clear that many of those being deported had either no criminal record at all or had only been convicted of minor crimes. The centrist approach to enforcement, prioritizing the removal of supposedly “bad” immigrants, created an automated deportation pipeline as voracious and sweeping as anything their right-wing detractors could have have proposed.

The report, entitled “I Still Need You,” analyzes the impact of immigration enforcement policy on immigrant families in California and finds that parents with U.S. citizen children were more likely to be deported from detention rather than released. The report also finds that from January 2011 through June 2015 nearly half of the immigrants detained in California had no criminal history, findings that directly contradict claims President Obama made about his immigration enforcement policy at that time. Under President Trump, the report’s authors believe, the trends suggested by the data have likely become even more pronounced.
In 2014, Obama announced a new immigration enforcement policy known informally as “felons, not families,” which purported to prioritize the deportation of undocumented immigrants with serious criminal histories and avoid separating families. But as the Marshall Project has shown, less than a fifth of the immigrants deported nationwide under the policy had been convicted of violent or potentially violent crimes. More than 40 percent had no criminal convictions whatsoever.

-----------------------------------------------

Human Rights Watch also estimates that 42 percent of the immigrants ICE detained in California over that time period were parents of U.S. citizen children. After being detained, parents of American citizens were more likely than others to be deported. Close to 47 percent of those who were deported had a child with U.S. citizenship, versus 35 percent of those who were released.

Together, the figures indicate that contrary to Obama’s avowed policy, a huge part of ICE’s enforcement efforts resulted in the separation of families, and a much smaller portion went toward deporting people who posed legitimate public safety threats.

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/15/obamas-deportation-policy-was-even-worse-than-we-thought/

2)My other assertion was that ICE had a horrific record under Obama as well. The agency lost some minors to human traffickers in one instance and couldn't confirm the whereabouts of 1475 children. Children were also being housed in detention centers back then as well.

Also I fully admit to not being an immigration lawyer or anything and I've only hit the tip of the iceberg here.

 

[mookie1995]

This is stupid even for you.....

Mookie has to question rovers take on things now.... being back in Boston this week, mookie had to play hopscotch over the homeless everywhere. And quick review walking around looked like store vacancies are running 20-30%

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Mookie has to question rovers take on things now.... being back in Boston this week, mookie had to play hopscotch over the homeless everywhere. And quick review walking around looked like store vacancies are running 20-30%

Sure you just weren't on BC's campus? Only time I encounter homeless people is in the T stations, or those could be MBTA workers. Its tough to tell.

Trix, I read your articles and I'm going to use your own sources against you.

"But it soon became clear that many of those being deported had either no criminal record at all or had only been convicted of minor crimes." - "Minor crimes" is being defined as drug dealing, DUI's, identify fraud, or re-entry after being deported from the studies in your article. I'm not sure what part of this you don't understand, but defending the rights of drug dealers or fraudsters to remain in the country because those aren't violent crimes is a political loser.

"The report, entitled “I Still Need You,” analyzes the impact of immigration enforcement policy on immigrant families in California and finds that parents with U.S. citizen children were more likely to be deported from detention rather than released. " Being the parent of a US citizen is irrelevant IF you've committed criminal acts. Is it your view that somebody who say beat up a spouse should be allowed to remain in the country because they happen to have a US born kid? Good luck running on that one!

The bottom line is the country needs an orderly process for who gets to stay here. It can't be everyone is allowed in and we take them at their word while we figure out who they are and why they are here, while at the same time eliminating deportation for all but violent felons who don't happen to have kids. Having travelled to interior Mexico and seeing the cinder block huts with dirt floors and no running water in 100 degree heat were I in that situation I'd be heading to the US by any means possible too. I sympathsize but everybody needs to follow the rules.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Funny how you ignore the part where it points out that nearly half these people had no criminal record and less than a fifth had been convicted of violent crimes (which I assume includes domestic abuse). Traffic violations were one of the more common offenses too.

And yes, separating parents from children (which occurred statistically more often than undocumented ppl w/o children) is pretty much always a bad thing and the numbers don't really back your hypothesis that the majority were committing domestic abuse or drug offenses...

Also I forgot which administration appointed the judge who defended the idea of 3 year olds could representing themselves in immigration court... https://www.aclu.org/blog/how-can-3-year-old-represent-himself-court

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Minnesota state fair DFL booth has some good shirts. While walking, saw a guy in a Tulsi shirt and hat. And two Neanderthals in trump 2020 shirts

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683623555/president-obama-also-faced-a-crisis-at-the-southern-border

Like the current White House, the Obama administration struggled to find the right response to a dramatic increase in the number of migrants fleeing violence and poverty in Central America.

More than 60,000 unaccompanied children arrived at the southern border in 2014, most from the Northern Triangle countries of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala, putting the Obama administration in a difficult position.

"They made a lot of mistakes, but eventually they got some stuff right," said Michelle Brané, who directs the Migrant Rights and Justice program at the Women's Refugee Commission.

"They started out with sort of a deterrence approach, but realized fairly early on that this was a humanitarian situation," Brané said.

The Obama administration housed migrant children in temporary camps on military bases. And it pushed for long-term detention of migrant families while their asylum cases played out in immigration court, though federal courts blocked that policy.

But then, those tactics shifted. Under Obama, the federal government eventually spent billions of dollars in response to the migrant surge. For instance,the administration greatly expanded the network of shelters contracted by the Department of Health and Human Services that house unaccompanied children. These shelters house the children until they can be placed with a parent or other relative already living in the U.S.

According to Michelle Brané, the Obama administration deserves credit for learning from its mistakes.

"The Trump administration has done basically the opposite," Brané said. "They took exactly what failed, and expanded on it."

Trump brought us to this place and that it wasn’t the same thing under Obama:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...amilies-at-the-border/?utm_term=.d9a708bbf80d

The Central American refugee crisis developed during President Barack Obama’s administration and continues under Trump. The two administrations have taken different approaches. The Justice Department under Obama prioritized the deportation of dangerous people. Once he took office, Trump issued an executive order rolling back much of the Obama-era framework.

Obama’s guidelines prioritized the deportation of gang members, those who posed a national security risk and those who had committed felonies. Trump’s January 2017 executive order does not include a priority list for deportations and refers only to “criminal offenses,” which is broad enough to encompass serious felonies as well as misdemeanors.

Then, in April 2018, Attorney General Jeff Sessions rolled out the zero-tolerance policy.

When families or individuals are apprehended by the Border Patrol, they’re taken into DHS custody. Under the zero-tolerance policy, DHS officials refer any adult “believed to have committed any crime, including illegal entry,” to the Justice Department for prosecution. If they’re convicted, they’re usually sentenced to time served. The next step would be deportation proceedings.

Illegal entry is a misdemeanor for first-time offenders and a conviction is grounds for deportation. Because of Trump’s executive order, DHS can deport people for misdemeanors more easily, because the government no longer prioritizes the removal of dangerous criminals, gang members or national-security threats. (A DHS fact sheet says, “Any individual processed for removal, including those who are criminally prosecuted for illegal entry, may seek asylum or other protection available under law.”)

Adding it all up, this means the Trump administration is operating a system in which immigrant families that are apprehended at the border get split up, because children go into a process in which they eventually get placed with sponsors in the country while their parents are prosecuted and potentially deported.

“We’re increasing the rate of what we were already doing,” Waldman said. “Instead of letting some slip through, we’re saying we’re doing it for all.”

“During the Obama administration there was no policy in place that resulted in the systematic separation of families at the border, like we are now seeing under the Trump administration,” said Sarah Pierce, a policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute. “Our understanding is that generally parents were not prosecuted for illegal entry under President Obama. There may have been some separation if there was suspicion that the children were being trafficked or a claimed parent-child relationship did not actually exist. But nothing like the levels we are seeing today.”

“What has changed is that we no longer exempt entire classes of people who break the law,” Nielsen said at a White House briefing June 18. “Everyone is subject to prosecution.”

There's more:

https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...ald-trumps-separation-immigrant-families-was/
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/i...bama-administration-separate-families-n884856

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/...p-to-20000-migrant-children-at-military-bases

Pentagon asked about housing 20K migrant children at military bases

The Trump administration may place up to 20,000 unaccompanied migrant children on military bases starting as early as next month, according to a new Pentagon memo.

The notification, sent to lawmakers on Wednesday and first reported by The Washington Post, says the Defense Department received a request for assistance from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

“HHS has requested DOD determine its capabilities to provide up to 20,000 temporary beds for unaccompanied children at DOD installations,” the document states.

If the Pentagon finds that it can provide such lodging, “the Administration for Children and Families (ACF) requests the facilities be available for occupancy as early as July through December 31, 2018.”

https://twitter.com/tarapalmeri/status/1010674896203075584

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1011061520233623554
https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/1015396297417920512

Looks like infants have to learn immigration law now.

https://apnews.com/4cb60fc06ca34160bf7445fdc1f47eed

PHOENIX (AP) — The 1-year-old boy in a green button-up shirt drank milk from a bottle, played with a small purple ball that lit up when it hit the ground and occasionally asked for “agua.”

Then it was the child’s turn for his court appearance before a Phoenix immigration judge, who could hardly contain his unease with the situation during the portion of the hearing where he asks immigrant defendants whether they understand the proceedings.

“I’m embarrassed to ask it, because I don’t know who you would explain it to, unless you think that a 1-year-old could learn immigration law,” Judge John W. Richardson told the lawyer representing the 1-year-old boy.

The boy is one of hundreds of children who need to be reunited with their parents after being separated at the border, many of them split from mothers and fathers as a result of the Trump administration’s “zero-tolerance policy.” The separations have become an embarrassment to the administration as stories of crying children separated from mothers and kept apart for weeks on end dominated the news in recent weeks.

Critics have also seized on the nation’s immigration court system that requires children — some still in diapers — to have appearances before judges and go through deportation proceedings while separated from their parents. Such children don’t have a right to a court-appointed attorney, and 90 percent of kids without a lawyer are returned to their home countries, according to Kids in Need of Defense, a group that provides legal representation.

Zero tolerance never existed until Trump.

https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

Extortion:
https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1008834507678666754

https://twitter.com/jorgeramosnews/status/1007292666835603457

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

So what your saying is that they aren't the same and that the myth of Obama deporting people for non-violent offenses en mass is bs. Color me shocked!

So you are a Conservadem too now? . Welcome Fade has your orientation packet ready and there is snacks and refreshments in the next room

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

So what your saying is that they aren't the same and that the myth of Obama deporting people for non-violent offenses en mass is bs. Color me shocked!

So you are a Conservadem too now? . Welcome Fade has your orientation packet ready and there is snacks and refreshments in the next room

Haha.

Look it's fine that trixie wants Bernie to win and I'm not anti-Bernie. But trying to trash Biden by proxy to falsely going after Obama to get there is not cool.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Going after Obama is a losing move in a Democratic Primary. Dude is at 90-95% among Democrats. Can't believe any of theses guys serious about winning thought this was smart.

 

[unofan]

Going after Obama is a losing move in a Democratic Primary. Dude is at 90-95% among Democrats. Can't believe any of theses guys serious about winning thought this was smart.

Not to mention, you need to win African American votes to win the primary. Going after the first African American president is not going to do that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

This is stupid even for you. Obama's administration IIRC was deporting people with criminal records. Again, I don't know what flies at the hypothetical vegan co-op in Burlington VT, but once again this is an issue you're going to gift to the Republicans

You weaken your argument by always doing this. You are arguing in bad faith.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Not to mention, you need to win African American votes to win the primary. Going after the first African American president is not going to do that.

There's some truth to that. It certainly doesn't help during election season to be overly fine in making these distinctions, and it gives the enemy ammunition.

Reagan was right to have the 11th Commandment and we should adopt it ourselves: thou shalt not speak ill of another Democrat.

 

[trixR4kids]

So what your saying is that they aren't the same and that the myth of Obama deporting people for non-violent offenses en mass is bs. Color me shocked!

None of what he has there refutes anything I said and it’s obvious your didn’t read anything. Color me shocked

 

[Handyman]

Haha.

Look it's fine that trixie wants Bernie to win and I'm not anti-Bernie. But trying to trash Biden by proxy to falsely going after Obama to get there is not cool.

Hey I love Bernie and have for over a decade...but I also know you don't bite off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Handyman]

None of what he has there refutes anything I said and it’s obvious your didn’t read anything. Color me shocked

I read all of it nice try though. Just because you pick and choose your facts doesn't mean every one does it

I mean I know you probably don't trust WaPo because Bezos is Satan but you might want to re-read what Slap Shot posted.

I bet your posts are a big hit at Daily Kos though

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

And yet you can’t point to anything specific so you go the ad him route... hmmmmmm

 

[Handyman]

And yet you can’t point to anything specific so you go the ad him route... hmmmmmm

"Obama’s guidelines prioritized the deportation of gang members, those who posed a national security risk and those who had committed felonies."

That took 10 seconds and I'm on a cell phone roaming in South Africa.

(this is where you move the goal posts and whine about Pelosi )